Cocker/Mag Hybrid

[cledford]

Originally posted by the electrician
actually cockers use 4-ways, and no I use an actual 3-way. a micro 3-way clippard part #SMAV-3.

E:

Is there any place cheaper then Clippard to purchase the 3 way? I was shocked by the fact that they charge a "handling fee" of more then the cost of the part it's self. Money's a little tight right now and the fee is obnoxious.

I see how you mounted it in the frame, but what did you do for linkage to the trigger? How about the ram you used?

Thanks,

-Calvin

[Timmee]

Here's a ram I was thinking of using for a project like this:

http://www.clippard.com/store/displa...asp?sku=SM%2D6

Would it be acceptable for the purpose of tripping the sear? How would I go about actuating the sear with it? For those people that have already gotten this project to work, did you need to use a 90 degree bellcrank between the sear and the ram (that's how I was considering hooking it up)?

[the electrician]

you guys need to do some more home work to pick your parts.

how much max. force will that ram generate? how much do you need?

you need to either pull the front of the sear down, or better yet, push the sear in the same place the rod does. this way you don't have to actually connect it to the sear.

the trigger in a mag pushes on the trigger rod right? so I just put the SMAV-3 behind the trigger, a bit hight than where the rod used to hit the trigger. take the rod and clevis off of the sear.

this whole mod is dependant on access to a mill. and some of the cuts are a little tricky. you do have to take your time.

just make sure you plan out what you are going to do, before you start. do your homework.

[gunselman]

Okay guys i saw that Pnuema-sear mag on punishers a long time ago and thought that it sounded like a great i dea and i did some investigation and drew up some plans in AutoCad and have started some Rhino modeling. But i have been having a creative block when it comes to linking the Ram to the sear. If you guys can give me any help on this part that would be great.

[ZyperioN]

think emag....

[gunselman]

Hey i was thinking of ways to connect the ram to the sear i was thinking that i am using a retro valve, and i was thinking that i could use the EMAG sear and connect the Ram to the the the plunger on the Emag sear. Hear is a really ****ty Pic of what i was thinking of doing, it shoudl work just ignore the Paint program i don't have photshop on this computer..


I think that it would work great because it is almost the exact same setup that there is in a Emag only they have an elctronic solenoid instead of a Ram.

Lets hear some feedback Guys!!!

[kapaintballman]

wat i was ganna do is jus cut off the little peice of metal that sticks down from the sear, and take off that trigger rod and watever the thing that that screws into off, and then drillin a hole in the back of the sear, and taking the trigger rod and that pivoting peice watever, and puttin that in the drilled hole, and hooking the the trigger rod 2 the ram (a lot like wat gunselmen said, except the sear wont have that extra peice of metal reaching down, and it will go right up 2 the sear) sry im like dislexic, i cant explain worth ****, but hopefully u can understand that

[ZyperioN]

Originally posted by ZyperioN
think emag....

Like i said......

[kapaintballman]

hey man, u gatta understand, im a bit slow, and most the time i look like this---->

[gunselman]

Hey, kapaintballman that s basically what i did only i used a Emag sear and just deleted the regular mechanical trigger rod off from it. Here is a pic of the regulare Retro Valve Sear and then the Emag SEar.


By the way Zyperion what do you mean "think emag"

[gunselman]

They didn't both come up so here is the Emag sear, you can tell that it would work almost perfect for what we are talking about here and it isnt' that expenisve its only $55.00. And if it will work than that a cheap and creative way of doing it.


Or i guess you could jsut use the regular sear and shorten the rod, not to sure if the angle is going to work for what we are talking about here though?

Thoughts???????

[Punisher]

Hi guys,
Southbayjay told me there was a thread here about the PneuMag so I thought I'd pop in.

The one displayed in my gallery was built to the customer's specs: He wanted a slide trigger and front mounted pneumatics so that's what he got.
I built the ram to suit, it's got a grand total throw of 3/16" when running free. It runs at 45psi. I do wish I'd had an E-mag sear when I built it originally, t'would have made things easier.

I've since redesigned the conversion for a couple reasons. Directly linking to the sear is a pain in the butt and seems to cause some some wear and consistency issues. My new layout is pneumatic but has NO RAM. Wrap your brains around that.....hehehehehe.

Also, for you home builder types...a little hint that some may not want you to have. most every solenoid valve out there that's used in current paintball guns has a mechanical counterpart. Basically the same valve section but no electric coil. These puppies have ridiculously short throws and switch VERY quickly. A very good way to get that ultra short trigger pull. One should consider though that you need a certain amount of hysteresis or hold up for the close time. A trigger pull that's too short on a marker of this nature will make it tough to cycle smoothly.

So far the best over all results have been with one a couple setups.

1) Hinge frame (your choice) and Shockteck Bomb or similar 3-ring 4-way valve. With and Eclipse hinge and bomb I've tuned for a 2mm pull that allowed enough hold up to cycle smooth and consistent.

2) Mag spec Dye single trigger frame and mechanical version of the Humphrey's 401 valve. I had an adjustable linkage on this setup that allowed trigger throw from a baseline of 1.775mm down to a ridiculous .53mm!

I'll have to go back and read tis whole thread when I get a chance, looks like a good one!

[the electrician]

I took your advice a long while back and changed my old blue pneu-mag design to a horizontal valve actuator with a small piston in it which acts the ram. it has a 3/16" stroke. it is not actually conected to the sear, and has a spring return to help conserve air.

it worked well with an SMAV-3 valve behind the trigger, but it's even better with a morlock, 9v, and a MAC. it easily raps out 16 bps with a standard valve.

I'm now in the process of cramming a super small solenoid valve in the grip, mounted to the actuator with a homemade manifold.

so it will be a n e-mag of sorts, but no giant battery, and all in the grip but the palmer micro rock.

when I get it done I'll have to take some pics

[ZyperioN]

Originally posted by gunselman
By the way Zyperion what do you mean "think emag"

Obviously i mean think like an emag, the solenoid in an emag serves the same purpose as a ram in this project

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Punisher
Hi guys,
Southbayjay told me there was a thread here about the PneuMag so I thought I'd pop in.

The one displayed in my gallery was built to the customer's specs: He wanted a slide trigger and front mounted pneumatics so that's what he got.
I built the ram to suit, it's got a grand total throw of 3/16" when running free. It runs at 45psi. I do wish I'd had an E-mag sear when I built it originally, t'would have made things easier.

I've since redesigned the conversion for a couple reasons. Directly linking to the sear is a pain in the butt and seems to cause some some wear and consistency issues. My new layout is pneumatic but has NO RAM. Wrap your brains around that.....hehehehehe.

Also, for you home builder types...a little hint that some may not want you to have. most every solenoid valve out there that's used in current paintball guns has a mechanical counterpart. Basically the same valve section but no electric coil. These puppies have ridiculously short throws and switch VERY quickly. A very good way to get that ultra short trigger pull. One should consider though that you need a certain amount of hysteresis or hold up for the close time. A trigger pull that's too short on a marker of this nature will make it tough to cycle smoothly.

So far the best over all results have been with one a couple setups.

1) Hinge frame (your choice) and Shockteck Bomb or similar 3-ring 4-way valve. With and Eclipse hinge and bomb I've tuned for a 2mm pull that allowed enough hold up to cycle smooth and consistent.

2) Mag spec Dye single trigger frame and mechanical version of the Humphrey's 401 valve. I had an adjustable linkage on this setup that allowed trigger throw from a baseline of 1.775mm down to a ridiculous .53mm!

I'll have to go back and read tis whole thread when I get a chance, looks like a good one!

Hello Punisher!

First... southbayjay = me!

Second, thank you for joining our party!!!

Thanks for dropping some knowledge... your experiences are much appreciated!

A few quick questions...

- Does this PneuMag mod shortstoke?
- Can you "walk the trigger" on this mod? (hinge trigger of course)
- Do you have any photos of your "new" redesigns? (options 1 and 2 as you stated)
- No ram???
- How much would these conversions cost? (ballpark?)

thanks!

Jack & Coke
(southbayjay)

[gunselman]

Hey guys,,


I am in the process of chopping up my mag to do this mod on it and i can;t really figure out witch ram to use? Could i use a autococker mini ram or should i use the SM-6 or should i use the Mechanical version of Humphreys 401 valve, (I really can't find any info on that valve so..)


I haven't really devised a plan to link the 4-way that i am using yet either, but i was plannign on atttaching it to a Logic Vert Frame, but i can't fin a good way of attaching it to any frame without it being in the way.

I guess if i used an autococker hinge frame and Milled it out like Punisher said that would work but i was wanting to use a Logic Vert frame. S

So if you guys can help me out a bit that would be great!!

[LudavicoSoldier]

Can we get some pics? This sounds interesting for a home project. Or are you all keeping your designs secret?

[Green_kat]

Hey, quick question, roughly how much force is the ram gonna need? I've so far been unsuccessful in finding a small enough ram with any more than 2-5 pounds of pressure with an input of 40-100 psi. Any help would be appreciated.

[Jack & Coke]

Heh... looks like we can't use the name "Hybrid" anymore with regards to paintball:

http://www.forceofnature.com/modules...rder=0&thold=0

Powerlyte Inc. is proud to announce that we have been granted a United States Trademark (Registration number 2,788,487, issue date December 2, 2003) for the name Hybrid. This is the fourth trademark issued to Powerlyte Inc.

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office determined that the name Hybrid, relating to the paintball industry, met well-established criteria for issuance of a trademark.
Read more...

This trademark clearly designates the name Hybrid to be used only in accordance with Powerlyte Inc. The trademark covers use of Hybrid as the name of a product or company associated with the paintball industry. All parties interested in or currently using the name Hybrid should contact Powerlyte Inc. for licensing agreements.

About Powerlyte - Powerlyte was founded in 1995, incorporated in 1996 and relocated to North Carolina in 1999. Originally founded as a paintball product manufacturer, Powerlyte’s precision machining and design capability have since established it as a full product design and development house with customers in the Paintball, Firearms, Motorcycle, Medical, Nascar and Aerospace industries. We encourage companies interested in product development ventures to contact us for consultations and quotes.

[la690]

can someone explain hysteresis?

[Jack & Coke]

[la690]

[Dubstar112]

What future does this project have? Is there some affiliation with AGD?

[kapaintballman]

im working on mine, i still havnt gotten my 3-way that i ordered jan 17 from 888, those jackasses. i dont think this project is affiliated with agd at all, but they may want to take this idea up, i mean a mag with a feather light trigger pull, and no electronics, what could be better?

[nicad]

Originally posted by kapaintballman
... i dont think this project is affiliated with agd at all ...

"affiliated"- no. so far the hAir trigger has been compleatly my work (others have built similar devices).
I wouldnt be so hastey to say if AGD will be "affiliated" with this in the future or not. Time will tell.

Originally posted by Dubstar112
What future does this project have?...

Vast. very very Vast. and time is of the essence.

Originally posted by kapaintballman
... i still havnt gotten my 3-way that i ordered...

just FYI- any "pneumatic mag" project based on a 4 way cocker LP valve will be OK, but is nothing like what the hAir trigger is. If anyone can get a 2oz pull weight, 1/100" (yep, 0.01" = .254mm) pull stroke (consult your hysteresis lessons above), and cylce up to 20.4CPS with a cocker 4way.. I'll be the first to congratulate.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by nicad

...but it is nothing like what the hAir trigger is. If anyone can get a 2oz pull weight, 1/100" (yep, 0.01" = .254mm) pull stroke (consult your hysteresis lessons above), and cylce up to 20.4CPS...

OMG!!!


nicad, you're such a tease! When you say, time is of the essence, are you talking 2004ish?

[kapaintballman]

FYI, I said feather trigger, and the stroke of a shocktech bomb 3-way is short and easy. I was exagerating(dunno how 2 spell) i didnt honestly mean "a feather trigger pull"

[Dubstar112]

My brain hurts from your coolness.

Anyone want to trade a Series 5 for a mag w/xvalve? So I can have this done to my mag(from the trade)... (Seriously now...)

[kapaintballman]

well, if you are ganna have an x-valve, u should just get the ULE trigger or watever, its cheaper, and not as much work. and was that coolness compliment 4 me? cus if it was, ya damn skippy

[nicad]

I will finally have access to a digital video camera (yes I'm cheap- I dont own one!) over the weekend. if I get the time, I will try to get some video of the hAir in operation... I cant promise anything tho. If I have a video link up after the weekend you will know it was done. And if not, then not.

out!