Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 76

Thread: After the mag for AGD?

  1. #1

    After the mag for AGD?

    Well, in my opinion...I don't see the mag valve/blow forward design lasting another 10 years...I just feel something may come along and completely blow older designs like this and the cocker away.

    Any thoughts on if AGD would move on with the rest of the world?

    In the eyes of outsiders, AGD has been one step behind for awhile (RT when electro started, emag when electros were getting faster, efficient, consistent)

    Opinions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,478
    The e-mag is one of the top notch electros, wtf are you talking about and the x-mag is just another step up from there...
    Rooster "But such is the mentallity of the Arab people. Which is why as long as there are Arabs, there will be a terrorist problem."
    ^^^ known AO racists


    Contact Info
    AIM: holsamoht
    e-mail: Thomas.Loh@gmail.com
    My Feedback

  3. #3
    Mags are uniqe in there very own way, AGD might behind in the "times" but my RT mag is still faster than any electro out there... (excluding the emag or x-mag, those are just a we bit FASTER!) I wouldn't really say they are "behind" because AGD has so many, kick *** products that no other company has ever made. They arn't really behind in my opionion. Just going about the buisness another way thats all.

    thanks,

    trooper.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    463
    Since when has AGD been a step behind? From where I'm sitting it looks like the rest of the industry are still trying to catch up with a valve (RT) that was released 8 years ago.

  5. #5
    Yes...I know the emag is a top notch electro...

    But speed wise, and trigger wise it isnt exactly a favorable electro...you definetly see many more intimidators and impulses at the field than emags.

    I'm not bashing emags/mags..so no need to 'AO Bash' me.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Agawam Ma
    Posts
    3,487
    and agd was always ahead of their time, heard of this thing called compressed air and nitrogen, ya that was tom, intelifeeding, tom, tom pakaged agitating hoppers with mags back in the day. agd was always ahead of its time, other companys and thier patrons are too obseesed with what is "now" and see everything else as stupid. AGD is obsesed with what can be, and will always be looking back at what everyone else is doing.
    "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -John Morley

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Alabama !
    Posts
    18
    i think the x-mag would blow any other gun out of the water...except for this new alien gun im hearing of...?

    Give me
    an inch...
    and ill
    give you
    a bruise....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    805
    imo, and i am a high priest in the kult of kaye, so take it for what its worth...the rt valve was light years ahead of the rest of the industry...they have just come on par with its speed, but whats not even close yet for all of them is durrability. there are 6 year old rt valves still kickin it at 26bps. i had an impulse for a year...in that time i had to replace the solenoid 2 times.

    tom as the president, and agd as a company will not go the cheap disposable route. tom has said as much personally to whoever will listen. he has even tongue in cheek complained that he makes products that last too long so he doesnt sell as many markers as other companies...and thats why we love agd.

    sure he could make a hammer/valve/noid gun similar to the impulse, bm, or intimidator. it would be fast, and light, and all the hype....but not last as long as a mag. thats what its about for agd. tom wont copy the mainstream just to have another flash in the pan clone of a clone that will burn itself up within a year or two.

    i think the spool valve idea or even a valveless idea like the epic will be the long term future of PB...and im sure tom is working on his own take (or maybe even something totally new) that will eclipse the rt valve for longevity and performance.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Landing, NJ
    Posts
    450
    i would like to see a company improve upon a valve with three moving parts and make it better. sure thing, when will that happen? its been working pretty well for a while now and will still be going 10 years from now.

    Speed Kills.........but so does everything else only slower
    OSK
    E-Mag, X-valve w/ level 10 <-- for sale
    Free Flow Lotus Body E-blade

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    5,375
    Why don't you research "buggy whips" some time.

    Look, as good as the valve is, is AGD rests on its laurels it will get passed by. Innovation is the life blood of any company in this industry.

    Personally, I think AGD should keep the valve, but make a new electro design that does NOT utilize the huge battery and the sear. I think a conventional design using a small bettery and a small solenoid would make the mag the lightweight champion. Think about it, imagine what tiny valve like the X-valve could be like in a setup like that?


    A site for gay and alternative lifestyles: www.zakvetter.com

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Steeratt
    Why don't you research "buggy whips" some time.

    Look, as good as the valve is, is AGD rests on its laurels it will get passed by. Innovation is the life blood of any company in this industry.
    Thanks, you sort of expressed what I was trying to

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,710
    Personally the ONLY thing I think they need to do is work on effeciency and marketing...

    Mags aren't gas hogs, but hey, everyone could use more shots per tank.

    Ever wonder why the roller triggers didn't take off? Because no one outside of AO knew about them! Heck, I completely forgot they were there until I wanted to buy one and they weren't in the store anymore!

    They have the speed, the flashy good looks, and consistency now all we need is the ability to get 4 cases out of a 48/3k tank... and for everyone to know it.
    Hey Zero, how much did that Chipley cost ya?

    Originally said by Boggerman When I got married I thought it would go down too... The insurance, not the wife.

    FRUITCAT!!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    463
    Originally posted by Prairie
    Yes...I know the emag is a top notch electro...

    But speed wise, and trigger wise it isnt exactly a favorable electro...you definetly see many more intimidators and impulses at the field than emags.

    I'm not bashing emags/mags..so no need to 'AO Bash' me.
    But are more people using Timmys rather than E-Mags because they're actually better markers, or because they're more fashionable?

    Btw this isn't an 'AO Bash', like you I'm expressing my opinion...which is that regardless of whatever is flavour of the month with the easily swayed, E and X-Mags are as good a marker as money can buy.

    Look, as good as the valve is, is AGD rests on its laurels it will get passed by. Innovation is the life blood of any company in this industry.
    How much genuine innovation has actually happened in valve design in the last 5...or 10 years? Virtually every marker out there is using a valve which has its origins in the early 90s. Unless there are some advances in the materials that can be used or the way power can be generated, you're not going to see any great leaps in valve design - designs will continue to evolve, but I doubt we will see any revolutionary new designs any time soon.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    5,375
    If there was no innovation, there would be no difference between markers. The fact is, there is a world of difference between, say, a mag and a viking. I think AGD has a lot to offer in terms of technology, they just need to try and improve some things to match the needs of the market. I think the X-mag is a step in the right direction.

    Do they need to start producing stack-tube blowbacks? No. Can they keep trying to rely on classics to carry the company? No.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    805
    most innovation in the last year or so is software driven. intimidators shoot as fast as they do because of shot buffering in the software...and soon e/x mags will have shot buffering also. it doesnt really count as innovation, but it will put the king back on the throne.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    5,375
    Mags are not better than any other hight-end marker. They have thier own special advantages, just like any other marker, and find their own way of getting to the same end result: shooting paintballs. We must be careful to not assume that other markers are inferior becasue they use different designs.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    463
    The fact is, there is a world of difference between, say, a mag and a viking.
    Well yes, the Viking looks like it was welded together from spare M1 tank parts ....but on the performance side? Sure the Viking is more gas efficient....but ROF, accuracy, consistency? Not much between the two tbh.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,710
    Originally posted by Gadget


    ...but on the performance side? Sure the Viking is more gas efficient....but ROF, accuracy, consistency? Not much between the two tbh.
    So aside from looks, why would you go with the mag? Manual mode would be the only reason I can come up with...

  19. #19
    Did he just say accuracy?

    Anyway...

    I'm glad some intelligent people jumped into the thread to support the mag side, thanks.


    Continue the discussion, i'd like to hear some more.

  20. #20
    Feel, compactness, low profile, lightness, magnetic trigger.

    Just to name a few.
    Dynaflow for sale, PM ME!
    My AO Feedback Here
    My eBay Feedback Here
    [/font]

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    463
    I like the design, the performance, the reliability and the looks.

    ....and I've never run out of gas in a game in the 10 years I've owned mags.

    So why would I want to use any marker other than a mag?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Buffalo NY
    Posts
    679
    more innovation has gone on at AGD in the last 2 years than any other company in paintball...
    heck...level 10 alone, to me anyway, sets them above all others as a foolproof(as long as it's setup properly), mechanical anti-chopping device

    the warp feed...ule bodies...ule trigger(soon)...x-mags...y-grip...i'm sure i'm forgetting something

    as has been said already
    as long as they keep going the way they have
    the only thing that needs fixing is the marketing...

    Tom is a very smart guy, to me it's pretty obvious that he has some long term plans for the product line and if we can recognize that the classic won't last forever...I'm more than sure he sees it too
    TheDuelist "The problem is that Tom has developed the VW Beetle of the paintball industry. It's almost too good to change and far too reliable."

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,710
    Right, I'm on my fourth mag right now, and don't see myself giving it up anytime soon...

    But There are guns that are just as fast, just as consistant, just as reliable, just as if not more effecient, from companies that are just as good as AGD... The mag was better engineered... 5 years ago... the rest of the industry is catching up quick and can offer a product that can match and/or beat AGD's specs.

    Heck, my dream gun is an X-Mag, but its naieve for us to assume that it'll be on top forever...

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    463
    That's a fair point, but until another manufacturer releases a marker which offers me a real advantage over my E-Mag, I'll be sticking with AGD.

    But I'm not in any way saying that other manufacturers markers are inferior - just that I'm happy with mine and can't currently see any advantages that would persaude me to change to another make.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    496
    As was mentioned, the only real innovations from other companies have things like the spool valve or valvless designs. Oherwise, most companies are using what are essentially the same systems that they have been using since the mid-nineties. In most cases, these companies have simply found ways to tweak a little bit more performance out of designs, and have added electronics.

    Now, one had mentioned that Tom CAN'T rest on the current valve design. Well, it is possible that he isn't, and just hasn't mentioned anything, as it would be too early. On the flipside, just what is so bad about the current valve, anyway?

    Let us examine the current state. We have the aluminum X-Valve. No one, so far as I have heard, has ever been able to get it to shoot-down (unless it is short stroked). With level 10, it is nearly impossible to chop decent paint. Being aluminum, it is very lightweight. It also goes without saying that it is compact, and sturdy to boot.

    So, what we have here is a valve system that is faster than anyone will ever be able to shoot, lightweight, chop-free, small, and durable. I fail to see the problems here.

    Of course, it is impossible to say that there are not a couple of shortcomings.

    One person mentioned the large solenoid/battery. Of course, when your marker is half the size of the average marker, it is hard to really call this a problem, but lets just say that it is. This is needed because of the pull-weight. Lower the weight, and you can use smaller components, correct? Well, if the ULE trigger can effectively slice the weight of the pull by two-thirds, then that will be achieved. I do believe Tom was considering this possiblity. So, in this respect, Tom IS progressing. We may see a smaller solenoid/battery in the near future.

    The only two other problems I can think of are short-strokability, and efficiency.

    For the short-stroke, there is the electronic frame. Unless we are all forced to go back to mech, you might as well consider that point moot for most players. It would still be a potential problem for mech users, but who knows? Is it not possible that there could be devised a mechanical update to stop this? The RT certainly helps this problem, perhaps Tom may work on that in the future.

    As far as efficiency goes, I can't say. Now, with higher-pressure 5K tanks, it shouldn't be as much of a problem, unless you are firing 2000 rounds per game. Of course, it is still nagging for those backyard players who don't have fill stations of SCUBAs for all-day play. But, again, it is presumptuous to say that Tom isn't working on this.

    And, finally, to reiterate a previous point, only Tom can say whether or not he trying to progress. We don't know what he is thinking up; we don't know what intimate knowledge he alone is privy to (unless you have tapped into the collective unconscious). He takes criticism seriously, and as such is probably hard at work thinking of all he can to silence the complaints.

    So, I think that I have demonstrated that most problems with the current valve are mostly perceived, as well as the notion that AGD rests on their laurels. It is possible there may be some new stuff in the works, or it may be possible that Tom is simply working to perfect the current system. If the later is true, I see no reason why the current valve would not have longevity beyond the present. And, even if he doesn't iron out the wrinkles, I think that the current valve will still be a valid system for years to come.
    "My Jell-O is dying in the audience..."
    Merrill Howard Kalin

  26. #26
    Now that...that was a good reply.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bronx
    Posts
    764

    Mags behind the times!

    This guy is not the only one who has told me this BS. Last time I was at Cousins (a local paintball store) the guy kept telling me yeah he knew mags were good, but the technology is old! Even if that were true, its not, why would that matter if the guns shoots the way you want and is well built. Hell look at all the vehicles most Americans are driving now. These SUVs are based on OLD technology of a body on frame. Do you see people not buying them? Most of these guys in the sport have a bad image of the mags and I say the hell with em. Let em think that and We will still be the wiser.
    Feedback

    For Sale Link

    Retro MAG for sale


    Back in the Bronx again baby!

  28. #28
    WarBUCKs Guest
    I think what he means about being a step behind is that Low Pressure is the latest and greatest stuff, and AGD doesn't have a LP gun yet.

    If technology keeps improving at the current rate, I am sure that AGD will have a LP gun in 4 years (sub-200psi if they decide to take that route). The Level 10 is a great help, lets the bolt think it is a "LP" gun when it really isn't. So soft on the paint!

    What AGD has done, IMO, is take their "old guns" and make them brand spanking new time and time again. The innovations (LX bolt, ULE equip) that come from AGD influence the entire paintball world. I would almost be willing to say that Tom would love to make the current valve LP, R&Ding an attatchment piece and is trying his damndest to do it. I would have to say AGD is ahead of techology, but behind in the "What's Popular at the moment" idea.
    Last edited by WarBUCKs; 07-27-2003 at 06:31 PM.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    833
    hmm most other threads here are talking about how advanced AGD is and how amazing their upgrades are. This is one of the first ones that say AGD is behind the market

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West Michigan
    Posts
    9,333
    What

    Ok - you have guns on the market now that can outshoot anyones ability to pull the trigger, and hoppers that will nearly keep up with them. Fully auto is banned. We have proven that accuracy is paint to barrel match (I was hitting a 2" steel pipe at 50 feet consistantly with my X-valved, CP .689 barrel, and marbalizer today). What more could you want from a gun. The only possible improvements i see in guns in the future is efficiency(or a new propulsion system entirely). Valveless and spool valves (while I will admit I know nothing about them) can do little more than the same thing valves today do - propel the paintball.
    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •