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Thread: BlackVCG's ULT Thread

  1. #361
    So I've got an XValve with a ULT Trigger and LVL 10 bolt. When I air it up I can hear air coming from the trigger area. When I pull and hold the trigger the gun fires and resets no problem, the leak also stops. It resumes leaking when I release the trigger.

    As far as I know the LVL 10 system works as intended and isn't the problem. I've tuned it and seems to be working properly. I can only hear leaking from the on/off area.

    I've completely gone through this marker to make sure it isn't anything else. Leaks when gassed up, but immediately stops after the trigger is pulled. No leak down the barrel. It is definitely coming from this assembly. I've lubed everything up and gone through the ULT several times and everything looks to be in order.

    So, I'm at a loss. Anyone know the Oring sizes on this thing? I believe it's the "White O-Ring" in this picture that is the culprit.
    http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7313/ultoz8.jpg

  2. #362
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    If the leak is actually coming from the on-off area, then it has to be the small black oring inside the bottom section or the larger white one around the base of the bottom section.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    If the leak is actually coming from the on-off area, then it has to be the small black oring inside the bottom section or the larger white one around the base of the bottom section.
    Well, I would say the same thing, but, I've visually inspected this thing 10x over and that oring looks to be brand new. I've lubed it up with lots of oil and it's still doing the same thing. This is not my video, but I have the exact same issues.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VIk9e_-QVw

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    Well, I would say the same thing, but, I've visually inspected this thing 10x over and that oring looks to be brand new. I've lubed it up with lots of oil and it's still doing the same thing. This is not my video, but I have the exact same issues.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VIk9e_-QVw
    I know you have visually inspected the two orings in the on-off bottom, but until you have actually changed them, they are still suspect. Especially if it you have confirmed that there is no leak out the the powertube and the leaking is definitely out the bottom of the on-off area.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    So I've got an XValve with a ULT Trigger and LVL 10 bolt. When I air it up I can hear air coming from the trigger area. When I pull and hold the trigger the gun fires and resets no problem, the leak also stops. It resumes leaking when I release the trigger.

    As far as I know the LVL 10 system works as intended and isn't the problem. I've tuned it and seems to be working properly. I can only hear leaking from the on/off area.

    I've completely gone through this marker to make sure it isn't anything else. Leaks when gassed up, but immediately stops after the trigger is pulled. No leak down the barrel. It is definitely coming from this assembly. I've lubed everything up and gone through the ULT several times and everything looks to be in order.

    So, I'm at a loss. Anyone know the Oring sizes on this thing? I believe it's the "White O-Ring" in this picture that is the culprit.
    http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7313/ultoz8.jpg

    Were you able to resolve this issue? I'm having a similar issue. Installed ULT with no shims and trigger pull does nothing. every shim added after zero causes a leak, leak seems to get stronger the more shims I add. any help on this issue would be much appreciated! valve works perfectly fine with regular RT on/off installed.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewToMags2014 View Post
    Were you able to resolve this issue? I'm having a similar issue. Installed ULT with no shims and trigger pull does nothing. every shim added after zero causes a leak, leak seems to get stronger the more shims I add. any help on this issue would be much appreciated! valve works perfectly fine with regular RT on/off installed.
    Installing a ULT with no shims that won't allow the gun to charge and fire usually means the on-off is not opening. Therefore, it needs shims. If the shims cause a leak, then orings on the chamber side of the on-off top are the cause. When it leaks, is the leak after a shot, or does it leak as soon as the marker is gassed up? Is the leak out the bottom of the on-off or out the front of the bolt?

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Installing a ULT with no shims that won't allow the gun to charge and fire usually means the on-off is not opening. Therefore, it needs shims. If the shims cause a leak, then orings on the chamber side of the on-off top are the cause. When it leaks, is the leak after a shot, or does it leak as soon as the marker is gassed up? Is the leak out the bottom of the on-off or out the front of the bolt?
    the leak appears as soon as the tank is screwed on. I can hold down the trigger and get the leak to go down to a small amount but starts right back up after releasing the trigger. I'm almost positive the leak is out the bottom of the on/off, but I ran out of air so I'll have to double check later on today if I have time to get to the store. There is no leaking when I re-install the original RT on/off. I have an extra black o-ring, if I can figure out a way to get the old black o-ring off I'll see if that helps. All the other o-rings have been replaced.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewToMags2014 View Post
    the leak appears as soon as the tank is screwed on. I can hold down the trigger and get the leak to go down to a small amount but starts right back up after releasing the trigger. I'm almost positive the leak is out the bottom of the on/off, but I ran out of air so I'll have to double check later on today if I have time to get to the store. There is no leaking when I re-install the original RT on/off. I have an extra black o-ring, if I can figure out a way to get the old black o-ring off I'll see if that helps. All the other o-rings have been replaced.
    When the trigger is held after a shot, there is less air pressure in the chamber causing less air pressure on the on-off area. If it is leaking it will be less significant at lower pressures. When the trigger is released and the chamber charges up to full pressure, there is significantly more pressure on the orings in the on-off area. I suspect your problem is the small black oring in the ULT on-off bottom. Use a dental pick to remove the oring. Be careful not to drive the pick into the oring or it will be definitely ruined.

  9. #369
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    Problem solved! Ended up being the black o-ring. replaced that and all works fine now. Thanks again for the assistance!

  10. #370
    I was able to resolve mine as well. Ordered a rebuild kit that came with new orings for the ULT. All except the little black one that I had to specify when I talked with Dave at AGD. Shipped it out last week and installed tonight. No more leaks. The trick to replacing the little black one is to hit the bottom stem of the on/off with a butane torch to melt the locktite they put on them stems to hold them together at the factory. Then just pull them apart.

    NOW I have a new problem. I went to tune the ULT and removed a couple shims and now it won't fire. I'm using a maxflo regulator on my tank and it doesn't have a bleedoff. Any tricks to depressurize the gun, short of sacrificing the macroline?

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    I was able to resolve mine as well. Ordered a rebuild kit that came with new orings for the ULT. All except the little black one that I had to specify when I talked with Dave at AGD. Shipped it out last week and installed tonight. No more leaks. The trick to replacing the little black one is to hit the bottom stem of the on/off with a butane torch to melt the locktite they put on them stems to hold them together at the factory. Then just pull them apart.

    NOW I have a new problem. I went to tune the ULT and removed a couple shims and now it won't fire. I'm using a maxflo regulator on my tank and it doesn't have a bleedoff. Any tricks to depressurize the gun, short of sacrificing the macroline?
    Try to see if you can manually force the sear forward as far as it will go. It may allow the pin the clear the oring and fill the dump chamber. Then you can either fire the gun, or depress the trigger and remove the valve without a lot of pressure forcing things out.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Try to see if you can manually force the sear forward as far as it will go. It may allow the pin the clear the oring and fill the dump chamber. Then you can either fire the gun, or depress the trigger and remove the valve without a lot of pressure forcing things out.
    Couldn't get it to go forward enough.... But, here's how I fixed it:

    The gun would reset and was able to fire once every ~30 seconds. I had my suspicions that the On/Off oring on the MaxFlo "Smart-Valve" had blown because no matter how many times I was actually able to shoot out the pressure, it would re-pressurize. So I grabbed my safety glasses and pocket knife and scored the macroline just outside of the fitting, which bled out all the pressure, which then bled out all the pressure in the tank. So, looks like I'm rebuilding the MaxFlo too. I swear I thought I'd replaced that oring when I rebuilt it the first time...

    Hope this helps anyone with the same problem.
    Last edited by SOLITUDEbwk; 04-09-2014 at 09:44 AM.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    Couldn't get it to go forward enough.... But, here's how I fixed it:

    The gun would reset and was able to fire once every ~30 seconds. I had my suspicions that the On/Off oring on the MaxFlo "Smart-Valve" had blown because no matter how many times I was actually able to shoot out the pressure, it would re-pressurize. So I grabbed my safety glasses and pocket knife and scored the macroline just outside of the fitting, which bled out all the pressure, which then bled out all the pressure in the tank. So, looks like I'm rebuilding the MaxFlo too. I swear I thought I'd replaced that oring when I rebuilt it the first time...

    Hope this helps anyone with the same problem.
    You probably didn't have to score the macroline. It will pull out of the fittings when you pull back the retaining clip.

    The MaxFlo regulators all have the same on-off issue. The sharp edge of the hole in the on-off switch cuts the oring as it goes by. You can make it better but rounding the edge of the hole using a counter sink bit or a drill bit. That way there is no 90 degree angle with a sharp metal edge.

    Now that you have the ULT out, replace the small black ULT oring and tune the ULT by adding shims. Add one at a time until the gun won't reset properly or goes full auto. Then remove one or two from that number.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    You probably didn't have to score the macroline. It will pull out of the fittings when you pull back the retaining clip.
    Couldn't get the retaining clip to compress.

    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    The MaxFlo regulators all have the same on-off issue. The sharp edge of the hole in the on-off switch cuts the oring as it goes by. You can make it better but rounding the edge of the hole using a counter sink bit or a drill bit. That way there is no 90 degree angle with a sharp metal edge.
    EXCELLENT IDEA!

    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Now that you have the ULT out, replace the small black ULT oring and tune the ULT by adding shims. Add one at a time until the gun won't reset properly or goes full auto. Then remove one or two from that number.
    Already replaced the little black one. Described above. You wouldn't happen to know the size of that one? I asked Dave at AGD and he didn't know as it is a specialty one for them.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    Already replaced the little black one. Described above. You wouldn't happen to know the size of that one? I asked Dave at AGD and he didn't know as it is a specialty one for them.
    I don't know the size, but you can order them at AGD.

    Here is the link: Small Black ULT oring pack of 4

  16. #376
    Ok, so new issue.... When I replaced the little black oring I had to push the stems back together.... I'm thinking I may have pushed them together too far, as there's no real "stop" when you push them back together. The stem is now not long enough to actuate the on/off... Does anyone know how far I need to compress this thing? "Until it fires" is not a significant answer for me.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    Ok, so new issue.... When I replaced the little black oring I had to push the stems back together.... I'm thinking I may have pushed them together too far, as there's no real "stop" when you push them back together. The stem is now not long enough to actuate the on/off... Does anyone know how far I need to compress this thing? "Until it fires" is not a significant answer for me.
    They will only go as far as needed. The stem of the small end will bottom out in the hole of the larger one.

    What do you mean by "The stem is now not long enough to actuate the on/off"? Is the on-off remaining open when the mag is fired, causing the bolt to stick and air to rush out the front? If that is the case, remove some of the shims between the two halves to allow for a shorter pin length.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    What do you mean by "The stem is now not long enough to actuate the on/off"? Is the on-off remaining open when the mag is fired, causing the bolt to stick and air to rush out the front? If that is the case, remove some of the shims between the two halves to allow for a shorter pin length.
    Well, I pulled it all apart again to check the length with a caliper and it's within tolerance. I just can't get it to fire. No leaks what-so-ever. The trigger rod pushes forward to 1mm from the trigger.

    I'll pull the trigger and can feel the air pressure. The sear just isn't releasing the bolt allowing it to fire.

    The velocity is turned up farther than it probably should, I've turned it all the way up and all the way down. No change.

    There is a steady 850psi set on the regulator and I've tested it on another marker.

    I've taken it apart to see if the bolt is sticking, nope, smooth as ever.

    I've relubed every oring in the valve and there are no leaks.

    I've tried removing and adding shims on both the ULT and LVL10. The power tube tip has a <0.5mm nick on the tip protruding toward the bolt, but it's fired before without issue.

    I'm stumped. The only thing I've changed was rebuild the ULT. Help!
    Last edited by SOLITUDEbwk; 04-09-2014 at 10:51 PM.

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    Well, I pulled it all apart again to check the length with a caliper and it's within tolerance. I just can't get it to fire. No leaks what-so-ever. The trigger rod pushes forward to 1mm from the trigger.

    I'll pull the trigger and can feel the air pressure. The sear just isn't releasing the bolt allowing it to fire.

    The velocity is turned up farther than it probably should, I've turned it all the way up and all the way down. No change.

    There is a steady 850psi set on the regulator and I've tested it on another marker.

    I've taken it apart to see if the bolt is sticking, nope, smooth as ever.

    I've relubed every oring in the valve and there are no leaks.

    I've tried removing and adding shims on both the ULT and LVL10. The power tube tip has a <0.5mm nick on the tip protruding toward the bolt, but it's fired before without issue.

    I'm stumped. The only thing I've changed was rebuild the ULT. Help!
    Install the valve without the bolt. Hold the trigger in when you air up the valve. Gently release the trigger and see if air is released. That will tell you if the on-off is opening and closing properly and we can go from there. Make a note of where the trigger is when the air starts and stops flowing. Then check the sear position in the body with the trigger and sear in that position. It will help you determine if the sear is in the proper position to lock/release the bolt when the on-off is open or closed.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Install the valve without the bolt. Hold the trigger in when you air up the valve. Gently release the trigger and see if air is released. That will tell you if the on-off is opening and closing properly and we can go from there. Make a note of where the trigger is when the air starts and stops flowing. Then check the sear position in the body with the trigger and sear in that position. It will help you determine if the sear is in the proper position to lock/release the bolt when the on-off is open or closed.
    I'll give it a "shot" when I get to the house tonight. It's like the on/off isn't opening to release the pressure. And the more I look at this diagram I'm almost certain the stem is compressed too short on the on/off. Does anyone know what the length should be?


  21. #381
    So, I was able to pull it all back apart. Pulled the bolt out entirely. Held down the trigger while I gassed it up. Let off the trigger slowly...... It still didn't fire. So we've narrowed the issue down to the on/off.... Thoughts? The on/off is freshly rebuilt. It looks like I'm back to my "Stem length" question.

  22. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    So, I was able to pull it all back apart. Pulled the bolt out entirely. Held down the trigger while I gassed it up. Let off the trigger slowly...... It still didn't fire. So we've narrowed the issue down to the on/off.... Thoughts? The on/off is freshly rebuilt. It looks like I'm back to my "Stem length" question.
    It means the on-off pin length is too long and the top sealing edge of the pin is not moving below the sealing edge of the top oring. Adding more ULT shims will push the top section and oring up farther so that the sealing edge of the top oring is farther away, similar to installing a shorter pin.

  23. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    It means the on-off pin length is too long and the top sealing edge of the pin is not moving below the sealing edge of the top oring. Adding more ULT shims will push the top section and oring up farther so that the sealing edge of the top oring is farther away, similar to installing a shorter pin.
    Ok, so after pulling it apart several times and measuring, I've found that I didn't have the stem compressed enough on the On/Off, that and I had a 1 too many shims not allowing the stem to seal on the top oring when I pulled the trigger....

    So, now I can get the gun to fire, but something inside the valve is getting stuck. It takes several seconds between shots for the marker to recharge. I've tested multiple HP tanks to see if it was the regulator, but I'm still getting the same results. Anyone have any insight?

  24. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLITUDEbwk View Post
    So, now I can get the gun to fire, but something inside the valve is getting stuck. It takes several seconds between shots for the marker to recharge. I've tested multiple HP tanks to see if it was the regulator, but I'm still getting the same results. Anyone have any insight?
    It now sounds like your level 10 is getting bolt stick and needs tuning. Try the next larger carrier size.

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