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Thread: BlackVCG's ULT Thread

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    OK, I will bit. I can't get mine apart to add shims. :/ I've pushed the center pin down so the bottom pin can be grasped; but the sticking-out pin doesn't come all the way out, and once at that point, I can't figure out how to get the on/off top off to add shims.

    Help?

    Jamie

    Minimag with X-valve #VV02908
    Palmer Pursuit Custom Brass Barrel // J&J Ceramic // Dye Aluminum
    Intelliframe and Warp Feed

  2. #32
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    Nevermind; more force was required. Now up and running, all 5 shims in, all told, no shootdown or runaway. here's my question; do we want MOER or LESS shim action here?

    Jamie

  3. #33
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    it appears that the more shims you have(without it going into runaway or doubling) the lower the likelyhood of you short stroking...
    so i'd say more is better
    TheDuelist "The problem is that Tom has developed the VW Beetle of the paintball industry. It's almost too good to change and far too reliable."

  4. #34
    Originally posted by BlackVCG
    It comes with three extra shims and should have had two installed. You shouldn't need more shims than that to get it working properly.
    *****... i have all of them in and it still shoots less and less air until it stops completely.

  5. #35
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    You shouldn't need more shims
    there's that word again
    "shouldn't"
    pfft

    well if it's still not working you can use level 10 shims...
    just remember that they're twice as thick
    Last edited by Jerhew; 08-09-2003 at 05:00 PM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Newton, MA :) (Moved, but still a Boston boy!)
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    serious issue with ULE

    OK guys, I would definitely appreciate some help on this: I gas my gun up, test fire once or twice, and then the bolt continuously does not reset fully. I have to manually put my finger in the breech and reset the bolt. What is going on? It didn't do it until I put in the ULE. The trigger feels totally limp and the sear pin is not being pushed out at all by the xvalve on one or two occassions as well. I run a Crossfire 68/3000 preset and didn't have this issue before, it was a totally nuisance today at Boston Paintball, I sat out a few games because it wasn't working. I added shims to the point it went into runaway if I sweetspotted.

    Any thoughts into what could be causing this to not gas up in the first place or after a few fast shots not let the sear reset for another?

  7. #37
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    hrm
    is it well lubed?

  8. #38
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    lubed

    Yeah, I put some oil in it, I also was getting borderline runaway (random doubleshots) just now so I took a few shims out. I wouldn't mind it being a little closer between shot and refill but it is also still sometimes not resetting right, mostly when I put my finger in the breech and shoot (in my apartment). When I have the issue on gas-up, it's almost like no air has filled the valve, then sometimes just "click" and it locks in. The on/off is lubed. I just don't get it and it is really making it unreliable to use.

  9. #39
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    just seems more like the kind of thing that happened when i was breaking in my level 10
    did you try turning your velocity up?

  10. #40
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    lvl10

    Level 10 should be fine, shooting 280 pretty steady, removed one shim because I was having an issue where if you put a little weight on the trigger it would start leaking, and it has no leaking down the barrel. I'm somewhat convinced it has something to do with the on/off or sear as it also shoots often when I gas it up. It sometimes lets the bolt move forward and stay there venting when I gas up and then if I reset it or let it fire, it's fine, I don't have a clue what's up.

  11. #41
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    well all i can say is
    check and double check everything
    check the sear and bolt lip for wear
    make sure the on/off pin isn't bent and moves freely
    then i'd say install your stock on/off just to make certain the ult on/off is the problem
    oh ya make sure you have enough air in your tank
    i dont know how many times my gun has started acting funny and worried me for a second just to see i only has 500 psi in my tank

  12. #42
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    good idea

    Good idea, I know it's not the air, I was gassed up and filled it and still had the issue, and the tank hasn't ever given me issues, but switching back to the normal one could be a clue. Thanks!

  13. #43
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    Nov 2002
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    Clemson SC
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    I think I though of a reason why the LX bolts are getting stuck. It happened with mine when I tried it on my dads classic valve, but I didn't really worry about it since my X-valve is coming. I bet the kick back of the new on-off pin isn't enough to get the sear back on the bolt, and the reason it does it when you short stroke, is because there is even less kickback. I don't think the shims (in the level 10) would have anything to do with it getting stuck as long as it was set up right in the first place. They control the venting point if it pinches a ball, and when the bolt is getting stuck with the ULT, there isn't any air to vent.

    Try upping the tank pressure if you have an adjustable reg. That is if adding more shims doesnt work.


    This is all speculation, and I really don't have much way to test it since I don't have a valve right now, but I figured Id try and help somehow.

  14. #44
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    tank

    I have a set pressure tank so I can't adjust it. I was always under the impression Mags work fine with a Crossfire tank but that could be the case that 800 isn't enough. If it is, I wasted my money because this problem definitely caused my gun to go down and I don't have faith in it to work right now.

  15. #45
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    Oct 2000
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    North Plains, OR
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    The only times I have had a problem with the bolt not reseting is when my air pressure is too low. I would have the output of the tank checked to make sure that is good. Do you have an intellifeed setup and what kind of trigger frame are you using?

  16. #46
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    Man, I hope the output of the tank isn't that important, because I have a crossfire @ 750. I will know in a few hours when I get a chance to fill my tank and install the upgrade.
    Cobalt DM4
    Team Synapsis
    THE GARDNER BROS ARE AS COOL AS HERPES

  17. #47
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    setup

    Here's my full setup:
    ULE body/XValve (both purchased at initial release of them), stock minimag rail, Intelliframe with intellifeed (not like that would affect much), Crossfire steel nitro 68/3000 (the green one). Not 100% on the output, 800 or 850, and never had a problem before with it really. Not like this problem especially and it seemed to really be an issue after a couple hours of playing just yesterday and never before. The weird thing is how sometimes when I turned the air on it didn't even feel like the valve pressurized and pushed the on/off out. Any thoughts?

  18. #48
    Originally posted by Jerhew


    there's that word again
    "shouldn't"
    pfft

    well if it's still not working you can use level 10 shims...
    just remember that they're twice as thick
    IS there any other place i could find some shims that would fit seeing as i dont hve a lvl10? Is This something the local paintball store would have?

  19. #49
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    Nov 2002
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    Clemson SC
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    If you don't have level 10 yet, get that before you get the ULT. You will just end up chopping paint.

  20. #50
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    Buffalo NY
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    quincy can you maybe get ahold of someone else's tank
    preferably an adjustable...
    give that a try...
    just a thought

    i agree with speedemon you should get the level 10 before the trigger kit...
    if you don't you'll wish you did

  21. #51
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    Oct 2000
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    North Plains, OR
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    Quincy- Make sure you fully tighten the field strip screw with an allen wrench. Also, make sure the rail bushing didn't fall out when you took apart the gun to put in the ULT.

  22. #52
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    Clemson SC
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    Ok, I messed with my dad's valve again, and I found that he didn't set up his LX quite right. He needs another shim in it. It will reset off of balls, but not a finger. So maybe I was wrong about the LX shims not doing anything. Try adding another one to your LX and see what that does.

  23. #53
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    Aug 2002
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    Upstate New York
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    Haven't got the ULT yet, but about to in probably 2 days. But very nice job on the report, mucho useful infomation there. Congrats.

  24. #54
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI
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    454
    after shooting HateE's marker, it had some "shot down". brought up by the AGD engineers that it would happen.

    question, does a valve mod actually help? he has the stock 1 hole, where as i was ripping shots off with my AR frame, and doing fine (Autoresponce, not retro) that has 7 holes, yes 7, i guess they got lazy.


    ahh, going to the field with only 500 balls...i love college.

    feedback

  25. #55
    Yea... I dont think its really a shim problem but more of a recharge problem. It shot a constant fps if you shot REALLY slowly, im talking like really slow, like as slow as a one armed dude could fire a pump.

    But i dont really know anything so tell me im wrong.

  26. #56
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    Dec 2002
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    Newton, MA :) (Moved, but still a Boston boy!)
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    BLACKVCG

    Thanks for the help guys, I do appreciate it. Here's some more info:

    I don't think another Lvl10 shim will do anything, I removed one because if I put pressure on the trigger it would leak. Would being short 1 shim in the Lvl10 actually prevent bolt reset?

    I will try another tank when I can but this problem really didn't arise till the ULE trigger.

    By rail bushing do you mean the part the field strip screw goes through? I'm pretty sure it's still there. Why would the screw need tightening with an allen wrench? I screw it in real tight and have tried it again and again in case the valve wasn't lined up right or something. No luck.

    The thing that confuses me is how it's gone between not gassing up at all to not functioning or the bolt not resetting after rapid fire. What else could cause that?

  27. #57
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    The more I think about it, the only reason that the bolt would stick would be because there was still some air in the chamber, and the vent hole is past the o-ring. If there is no air in the chamber, then the bolt has to reset. The spring is too stiff for it not to. So then there has to be some air in the chamber. And if the number of shims is just right, then it would either vent or sit back far enough for the sear to catch the edge of the bolt.

    If messing with shims doesnt work, then I give up.

  28. #58
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    Apr 2003
    Location
    Warren OH
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    339
    Originally posted by BlackVCG
    The only purpose of loctiting it is to keep it from falling out and I figure you can accomplish the same thing by putting a bit of grease on the pin support.
    What kind of grease are you talking about? Would it be a bad idea to use that IC2000 adhesive that you recommended for the retro bumpers? Or should I just try to use some of my normal gun oil?
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  29. #59
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    Nov 2002
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    Use grease, not glue. If you glue the 2 pieces together, then there could be some more chance of bending the pin.

  30. #60
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    shims

    OK Speeddemon, maybe you are onto something, but how would having one few too many shims cause extra air to stay in the valve? That does make sense though, but how would that also cause the on/off to not reset on gas-up too? You might be right, just trying to figure it out? Because I swear I'm getting the issue where too many shims cause leaking if slight pressure is put on the trigger.

    I need to fill my tank and then I'll fiddle with this but it's aggravating the hell out of me.

    One side question: how precision can Lvl 10's/ ULE triggers be with shims? It seems like you could get it real close to perfect and then by an oring settling a little (not even wearing in, but just settling) or by the rail and body sitting differently, it could throw your timing, go into runaway, etc. Thoughts?

    One other curious question: does having a thinner channel for the air to flow through in the on/off reduce the ROF the Mag can keep? OR is the recharge rate for an Xvalve and basic pressure principles result in that at 400psi (chamber pressure) the smaller space for the air to get through has no effect on ROF, just the reactivity?

    Just trying to figure out why my Mag is suffering right now, I want to get this bad boy up to peak performance. I appreciate all your help guys.

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