Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

[nippinout]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took around 45 minutes to get it to finally work. About ten minutes was used getting familiar with the instructions and parts.

-The type of gun you're using it on

RT Pro

-Efficiency

I'm not sure. My gauge is apparently acting funny.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

ZERO chops or breaks. I shot only 300 rounds of paint until my tank was empty. But the paint was 2 year old Proball.

-Any problems you encountered

My only problem was getting the carrier back out of the power tube. wesley was on AO chat and told me a pen. I didn't have one handy, so he recommended a small screwdriver - which worked well. Thanks wes!

-Other general comments

I forgot the order in which the carriers got larger. Maybe they should be in the instructions 2.0

My carrier o-rings were also already on the carriers.

My delrin washer wasn't black. Mine was an off-white color. I was kind of confused by the instructions/picture and with what I had in my kit.

Other than that, nice job AGD!

***Update***

I forgot some info.

I'm using carrier 2.5 with middle spring.

My tank is under 800psi right now, so I think that is why my reactivity isn't very reactive. Anybody else getting funny reactiveness? I'll have to refill to tell for sure.

[Will Wood]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
-Not very long..I lucked out and the first setup worked great-Maybe 10 mins

-The type of gun you're using it on
Regular old standard Mag

-Efficiency
I was using CO2 on this test...so hard to tell. I will update when I can get my HPA tank filled. I used a 20oz full C02 tank for this.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

I had about 100 balls ranging in age and type since I started paintball 4 years ago--Brass Eagle, Marbs, Team Colors, etc. NO CHOPS. This old crappy stuff Didn't break. Either did some unknown brand new unknown paint I had in my pods.

[/b]-Any problems you encountered
None yet[/b]..it was a quick test--Too darn hot out now.

-Other general comments
This rocks..
Regarding the above post about the white carrier....Yea lol I was searching the rug below me for a couple mins trying to find a black carrier I thought I lost. Note to AGD--Update the instruction about the color .

[virus]

[booyah]

wow

first impressions after shooting [school girl giggle] hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe [/school girl giggle]

time to install: dummy directions bout 2 min

gun: Old school RT with Z grip and PMI Preset at about 900psi by the 2 guages on the gun

hopper: both a rickochet AK and a VL200 (yeah, ol vl200 no motoloader here )

got it setup, was shooting way hot after I got it shooting, changed out to the lower spring and brought myself down to 280 again. fired some shots at 350 and broke two in the barrel and chopped one after trying hard, turned it down and zero and zero

okay, i bet two guys at my local shop $5 each 2:1 odds that neither me, nor either of them could get my RT to chop. I have lunch money for tomorrow now

ran about 900 rounds of the crappiest paint we could find through this gun, 0bounce from 4 feet marbs, first gen 2 year old advantage PMI paint, new really brittle Worr paint and some real crap kickin.

after I was at 280 fps 0 chops, 0 breaks no matter how fast we ran, we actually turned the power feed plug sideways to try to get it to chop. couldnt...

We also tried to short stroke the gun but no such luck, it just wouldnt no matter how hard we tried... added side benefit? i dont know....

all in all, i sold 4 level 10s today... almost rented my RT to a guy for his tourny saturday for 50, but he didnt have cash and i know him too well to take a check


THANK YOU AGD AND CREW

[virus]

ok as i said in my last post here are my results....

paint pmi advantage shell... 2-4 bounce.. also a little dimpled but not much

my miniRT shooting 268-273fps, 14" jnj ceramic, Zgrip 5.6k flatline with an output of 1k

left my squeegee in my bag and played.... 0 chops 0 breaks down barrel.... only thing is i may actually have to change my 9v in my X-revy i had a bunch of blank shots during some of my longer strings (greater then 10 shots).... also i need to adjust my warp.. one game it kept spinning... fixed that went too far found the happy med and came to the conclusion it was the hopper not keeping up.... but as i said not chops... most of the guyz there were very impressed... esp after i did the straight shot demo down the barrel.... i think i need to move LvX retro over to my micro to do teh ball on tape demo... anyhow i couldn't be happier great job AGD...

[cphilip]

Ok quick report as its late...

EMAG with Flatline at 800 psi input.

Got mine runing in an hour...spent some time trying to find out from members here if they also had a white backing washer. A lot them did. Its the only washer in the kit that is not metal so that is the right one to use as the backing washer. and its flat.

After that point the only thing I ran into was to up the size of the carrer one size tighter (gonna have to look but it was snugger than what i first though was snug) and had to veloctiy one time or so. I had started out using the cut spring and changed to the stock old spring and then two spacers. Seem working fine.

My main problem was a sticky macro fitting and a retention of 300 psi in the line. But those only slowed me down a bit. And of course trying to confirm the Backing washer change. Also my not reading the quick start early enough and noticing the use of the stock spring for first set up.

I have not put paint though it nor stuck any appendages in there! I did put a handle from an old tooth brush in there (one i use to clean parts with) and it stops it ona dime.

A couple of tips:

A good O Ring pick comes on real handy to retrieve the carriers when trying on the bolt and in the PT. and for changing out the oring into the carriers. You need one anyway so go get one at your local autoparts store.

Plenty of air. SCUBA got a work out. was only getting about 2K fills. But did like four of them.

Do not worry about the white flat washer its the backing washer.

Start with the fast start instructions and it will be close.

make sure the carrier you chose it plenty snug not just snug. Two of them may actually work for you.

Get a degas system (degas slide check, proconnect etc) on there if you are hard lined (SS or Macro no QC) as the residual pressures in the marker are going to be two to three and even four times higher than before.



Conclusion:

I will have to update this with paint and break in. I got some real old Nelson and a crono hope to do that tomorow.

Official cphilip Proclamation:

This sucker works!!!!!

Added on edit after setting up on RT Pro and crono/paint results

Same carrier used in the emag set up of course. The 1.0 and two shims. First with stock spring then up to the middle (cut) spring. And eventuauly tried the longest. Was getting an occasional bolt stick with that longest one and the velocity was way close to the venting point. In fact would vent a little on pressure up. So I decided to go back down to the middle spring and set it up there. Over the Crono I got nice set up around 280 or so with some old Nelson Splat that was hanging around for the last five or six months. Some of this stuff was breaking first drop from about 3 feet. I turned the revy off and after the crono set went crazy on the thing trying to missfeed. I did hear it missfeed four times (stop on a ball and hiss) but no breaks in the PF nor down the barrel. I think I am going to settle in on this set up. Middle spring i.e. the moderate set up but still not too hard on the finger!

This sucker still works!!!! Can't wait to get the emag reset up.

[rx2]

Yo, yo, yo! level 10 has arrived...

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
I read through the long procedure, and began the process. To get the gun to a working state, I would say that it took about 20 minutes. However, this is only PRELIMINARY. It didn't chop under normal circumstances, and appeared to fire consistantly, but I wish to tweak it a little more as there were a few mis-cycles, and the force is not as low as it might be if I altered the setup. More as it comes along...
Current setup is small spring, 1.5 carrier, and two shims.

-The type of gun you're using it on
Automag, CF17059. This marker is close to 9 years old.

-Efficiency
So far, I can't say. I will edit this part later.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
1 break after the bolt was cycled thrice on one round, which was held tightly in place with a finger.
Normal shooting exhibited no breaking through 300 rounds. Care was taken to force misfeeds by underloading a conventional hopper and angling the marker.
All sorts or OLD paint. 0 bounces at 6 feet, 1 to two at 3. Most had a high propensity to break at the seams.

-Any problems you encountered
As mentioned, the carriers can be difficult to remove.
The bolt still moves with a bit of force. I think that it is probably average for the initial setup of this mod. I must note that I was able to get the bolt force reduced beyond the point that it is at now, but it required the velocity to be adjusted just to the fringe of the maximal setting, which resulted in venting. I am going to try to alter spring and carrier combos to maximize the benefits. Perhaps breaking in the o-ring better will help.
Also, I may add another shim as it seems the bolt is not venting sufficiently at times.

-Other general comments
The trigger pull is noticeably heavier than before. I think this is due in part to the need to have the velocity adjusted to such a high level. Also, I suspect that lip of the bolt may be exerting a bit more friction upon the sear.
Also, for some odd reason, short-stroking seems to have increased. I think this may be due in part to the tightness from the setup and the use of the smaller spring, which may by impairing the cycle. I will update on this once I tweak and break in the system fully.

[manike]

Guys, using my scientific finger testing method I have tried the different bolt springs :) . I found the longest one results in significantly less bolt force (and thus chances of chopping).

I suggest if you can get the right velocity with the longest spring that you do. Resort down to the smaller and original springs if you can't get the right velocity with the longer one.

I also found that if you get a slight leak down the barrel which stops when you apply a tiny pressure to the trigger that you have too many shims in. Try taking one out and see if that works. My gun is now running without any shims and still resets perfectly if it stops on a ball. Adding shims does not stop leaks! It helps the resetting of the bolt due to where the air release hole is. Removing shims can stop slight leaks caused by where the release hole is in relation to the o-ring.

That's all for now, getting ready to go to Toulouse :) Keep your eyes on www.warpig.com for my report and possibly the first ever pictures of a C&C in tournament play...

manike

[Major Ho]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

An hour and half all together because at first I forgot to play with the velocity and kept getting stumped on why it would leak ornot work at all, etc... Once i reread and printed out the instructions it probably only took about 10 min. to put it together...
-The type of gun you're using it on
Warp feed, left feed minimag, 68 c.i. 3k AGD flatline tank, Retrovalve
-Efficiency
Not noticeable, but for once my valve went into runaway while w/o level 10 it never did
-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0 breaks mixture of new diablo seconds and 8 MONTH old Team Colors (only ~250 rounds all together)
-Any problems you encountered
Didnt play with velocity settings during the "leak" testing steps, made a world of difference when I did
-Other general comments
Tom Kaye is a genuis just for adding a lil O-ring here and a little brass doo hickey there to make it not chop.
I took off the warp feed and used a hopper AND turned it off. It makes nifty hissing sound when it pinches

Oh yeah almost forgot, input pressure up at 1150 as always

[rx2]

U P D A T E

Having run several hundred rounds through the marker, I have found what appears to be an ideal setup for my particular assembly.
I am using the 1.5 carrier, the "funny" spring, and three shims. It has been tested in conjunction for perhaps 1k shots with both CO2 and HPA at 875psi.
I am able to get the velocity I need without venting, and the bolt force is sufficiently low that even the most brittle paint, that I would encounter in real conditions, will not split or crack (0 bounce@4 ft.). Also, the addition of the extra shim seems to have alleviated the problem with bolt stick.

I MAY try to see if I can lighten the force further, although it would not really be needed at this point.

ALSO, for those of you whom misplace picks too often to have one when it is needed, the carrier may be easily removed by a paper-clip with a bent tip. Just get a few clips, bend the tips to a 90 degree angle, and keep them with your kit.

[Evil Bob]

Got my kits last night, installed..... still trying to recover from the shock...

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Setup 2 RT's and 1 Emag, took my time with the first install (1 hour on my son's RT), the remaining 2 only took 20 mins each to setup and fine tune.

My bro's RT - Carrier #1.5, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input.
My son's RT - Carrier #1, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input
My Emag - Carrier #1.5, 3 shims, middle spring, 750 psi input.

-The type of gun you're using it on

My bro's High Rise RT (RT00597), my son's LPF RT (RT04631), and my EMag (EM00570)

-Efficiency

No idea just yet, won't know till I get my scuba tanks refilled tomorrow, only getting 1500 psi fills right now, not enough for a decent guess. I can normally shoot 700-800 from my Armagedon 68/4500 @3k psi, I also normally top off between games, never know when you just need to hammer.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Fired 500 rounds of old RPS green marbs through each, egg shaped, dimpled... zero chops on all three. 2 broken down the barrel (Smart Parts AA) on my son's RT, and 3 down the barrel (Old Smart Parts AA Barrel) on my bro's RT. Swapping out the ported tight bore barrels for stock Mag barrels resulted in zero breaks down the barrels. I see this as two possible issues, FPS too high and/or the ancient swollen paint, this case was set aside 9 months ago for being out of round. The stock barrels are much more forgiving in bore diameter then the other barrels. No chrono at the house so I'm only guessing as to what the FPS is currently at, it seems a bit high just eye balling it, will verify this weekend at the field.

-Any problems you encountered

Zero problems.

I had plenty of warning from previous posts about the white base o-ring, so was expecting to see it in the kit.

-Other general comments

Tom's quick start instructions are perfect for getting the kit installed and working in short order. Print and read through both before starting. Quick start is just that, quick and dirty. For fine tuning you need to read the long version.

Seeing the bolt stop in the video is one thing, seeing it do it for real will make a convert out of any non believer in short order. Amazing work Tom, simply amazing. My bro has been contemplating selling his RT as it and my son's RT have both been very problematic with paint breakage, they'll usually bust 1 in 20 rapid fire, a chamber break every time. It was very refreshing to hear the bolt coughing as it pinched the balls and having nothing break in the chamber. My bro is very excited as his RT now has a completely new lease on life. 3 extremely satisfied customers...

-Evil Bob

[Warthog#3]

How long to install? About 40m. #2 carrer, 2 shims, middle spring, 800 psi.
Type of marker. Micro Emag.
Efficency Not much difference.
chops or Breaks? Went to Wallmart and bought 200 rounds of brass eagle that had to be a year old. Opened and seen a slight bit of paint. this stuff would break in two just dropping it from my hip and no bounce. 0 chops even tried the tape trick. broke one ball down the barrel ( this might have been the one that was leaking in the contaner).
problems. Had installed the 1.5 carrer and the marker would fire in E mode but was all locked up in mechanical mode.
Comments This thing rocks!

[virus]

well i just found this interesting.....

i just happened to look down at my floor today in my room and low and behold i found a foamie.... at first i thought it was one of the spares from the kit and didn't think anything of it....

took my marker over to my firends house to show him what LvX would do for his RT... needless to say he was impressed but when i took out my vlave to show him the parts... i find my foamie was missing... i just looked at the on i found on my floor just now and it looks like there was glue on it at one time on one side...

the only time my mag was not in my gear bag was when i first set it up..... which means the foamie was not in the bolt the whole time though out the tests i did in my previous posts.... and i was using 2-4 bounce paint for it all and didn't even know it was missing.... this now has left me with no reservations about the LvX what so ever... esp seein the only time a squeegee was in my barrel was to show the pinchin action of the bolt at thte field....

now i just need to bring home some superglue from work (indust grade for plastic to metal bonding)

i'm just loving this more and more... now TK about those I-Zgrips (nudge nudge wink wink)

[cphilip]

My Foamie went bye bye too. have no idea when or where. Have not shot paint and maybe a hundred dry pulls and its missing.

On other issue though that I have noticed and maybe needs some attention:

Pressure retention when degassing is much higher. And presents a little bit of a problem. I am seeing like 250 - 300 psi still in the line when the system has degassed to a point that it will not shoot. I totally over looked this during install but it persists and was present then as I think back. I originaly thought it was a sticky Macro fitting but now realize It was under that much pressure. Now this is going to be a problem I think we are going to need to work on. Because in further demo last night I chopped my on off pin removing the valve and shot the on off assembly out. Breaking the on off pin!

We think this retention of gas is a by product of design here and can be a problem and require some sort of device like a slide check in the system to allow total degassing. Remember, I am not talking about that little hiss that you get most times but a big one 300 psi is way too much to start taking things apart. During install I was having to use and small box wrench to bleed the macro out. I had thought that was due to set up errors but it presisted even when the lvl 10 was working properly.

So I think its a part of the trade off here then and would like to know what others are seeing. Screw in tank guys will not see this. Quick connect guys are getting a big hiss I bet. Hard line set up guys with macro or SS line will see this i think.

I need for those of you with closed systems and adjustable tanks that have LP side guages to notice for me what pressures you see when degassed.

Added later on edit: I moved the lvl 10 over to the RT Pro. Since I cannot use the emag due to that broken On/off pin I figures WHY NOT! Easy thing to do as I had already disccoverd my correct carrier for this bolt right? So I just moved it right over as it was. Stock spring, two shims ect. And with a bit of upping the input I got it running quick in like five minutes.

But on degassing still showing retention of 200 psi in this one.

[mxracer33x]

Mods..Does this topic fit into this thread or should there be a post setup thread? I thought this thread was for initial setup and testing notes. Either way here it is..

Well I have not lost my foamie, yet. But I have experienced the same degassing problems. There is always 300 - 375 psi left in the line after turning off the air. This is due to the heavier spring. Just not quite enough pressure to get the bolt to move. Setups using a shorter spring might not have this problem at all or may just get an extra shot off, reducing the inline pressure a bit more. The trigger still has tension, and if you pull it enough it will reduce the pressure a bit (blow-by somewhere I guess). Removing the quick disconnect while under pressure has mangled the male fittings edges. On my marker with a flatline 3000 I have resorted to backing off the reg and letting it bleed the pressure off. It requires resetting the output pressure but it is easier on the fittings.

Well we will leave this and a redirect to a thread I started on this issue - cphilip

For degassing issue Go here: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41874