Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

[Thordic]

Originally posted by manike
I have some swamp land I want to sell you

Simon, you know we're friends and all, but no, you can't sell my state... :)

[manike]

Sam, I skimmed your post because to be quite honest there is too much going on right now.

But I agree the USPTO is at blame. They are a joke in many cases and would rather allow it to be fought out in a court of law at a later date. That's a problem with the USA system.

But SP are also to blame for their practices in getting the patent and trying to patent something that was prior art and not invented by them.

Also the industry can not seriously go after all spurious patents. That's just absurd and far too costly.

Should they now go after the guy that patented the powerfeed 10 years after they were in production?

Or the guy that patented the barrel condomn 10-12 years after they were being used already?

The cost is phenomenal and you only take patents seriously when people do something with them.

It would cost more to go after the spurious patents from the start than fight the few that come to court.

Just having a patent isn't worth ANYTHING. Having it, and the money and the balls to try and enfore it is what makes it worthwhile.

Sam you seem to be on one of your crusades again because you have something fun to debate. Doesn't mean you know crap about what's going on though.

Going to the root of the problem at the USPTO? Don't make my sides split, they are just another USA money making corporation. They don't care. They also are out to make as much money as possible, and if that means lots more patents being filed and granted then goody for them.

You know that even after the work is done to get a patent and all is done and dusted. They STILL charge you more for the fact it's granted... why is that? There is nothing else to be done... $$$

Only very recently have they allowed pending patents to be seen, and give people a chance to see what BS is about to be granted. Previously this wasn't possible and there was no way to get patents stopped before the USPTO grants them.

That's one thing which is much better about the UK system.

Don't make frivelous comparisons about this and some nut shooting people. That's low and wrong. In that case prevention 100% in this case it's not a valid arguement (although I'm sure you will think differently).

[Albinonewt]

I haven't read most of the posts, there's just so many of them, but I thought I'd jump in a little.

If Smart Parts somehow wins their suit (which I'm trying to figure out how that could happen) it is very bad for paintball in the short run and possibly good in the long run.

Short:

Patents are inherently anti-competitive, they are designed to protect from competition. By enforcing the patent so late in the game it restricts the current manufacturers from being able to recoup any expenses associated with their current line of markers. By forcing them to either pay fees or sell different markers it creates an undue financial burden that could force out some companies.

Long:
By cutting off eletronic markers the lawsuit would actually jumpstart innovation that might have been otherwise put off until a later date. This is good for the industry, but the precedent the lawsuit would set may cause various companies to rush production in order to be the first to throw a patent label on something. That is obviously not good as it could affect the quality of the first generation of products.

I think what SP is trying to do is to artificially take over the electro gun market. From that limited perspective it isn't a bad plan they have, although they should take a little wider look at what they're doing.

[bryceeden]

Here is a quote from Allen Turner about the issue after he spoke directly to SP

WPPL Members and Friends,

I just got off the phone with Bill Gardner, Sr. the president of Smart Parts. He was very open about the patent issue.
They are pursuding two specific manufacturers for patent violations ICD and now a part of the WDP design (Angels).
The patent is not as broad as is being reported.

Bill said most of the information in the quotes are GROSS exaggerationions !!! In fact Bill was with Bud Orr last week and there was no discussion of the nature that is attributed to Bud in the quotes. Bill doubts thier accuracy.

Bill also explained that Patent law is very complex and they are only trying to enforce some specific designs that they feel are express violations of thier Patents. They are not attacking the E-Marker industry. No one can say with accuracy how this will resolve, but for now it only involves two companies and even if they win the patent it will only force the companies to change thier designs.

I dont like to perpetuate mis information that is why I called Smart Parts Directly, to get real information. Smart Parts is preparing a Press Release regarding the patent issue, I will forward that information to anyone interested when it arrives.

[manike]

If that's the case then kindly ask Bill just which claims of which patents exactly they think ICD and WDP are infringing...

We can all go and read the patents and claims quite easily.

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike
Sam, I skimmed your post because to be quite honest there is too much going on right now.

Originally posted by manike
The cost is phenomenal and you only take patents seriously when people do something with them.

Originally posted by manike
Just having a patent isn't worth ANYTHING. Having it, and the money and the balls to try and enfore it is what makes it worthwhile.

Originally posted by manike
Sam you seem to be on one of your crusades again because you have something fun to debate. Doesn't mean you know crap about what's going on though.

Originally posted by manike
Don't make frivelous comparisons about this and some nut shooting people. That's low and wrong. In that case prevention 100% in this case it's not a valid arguement (although I'm sure you will think differently).

Then I want to see you say to everyone who uses Nazi references and SP, and has Nazi symbols to reference SP to stop as well. We both know that is NOT what they are, no matter how wrong we may feel they are for doing what they are doing (funny how that has not even been fully verified eiher).

Originally posted by bryceeden
Here is a quote from Allen Turner about the issue after he spoke directly to SP

WPPL Members and Friends,

I just got off the phone with Bill Gardner, Sr. the president of Smart Parts. He was very open about the patent issue.
They are pursuding two specific manufacturers for patent violations ICD and now a part of the WDP design (Angels).
The patent is not as broad as is being reported.

Bill said most of the information in the quotes are GROSS exaggerationions !!! In fact Bill was with Bud Orr last week and there was no discussion of the nature that is attributed to Bud in the quotes. Bill doubts thier accuracy.

Bill also explained that Patent law is very complex and they are only trying to enforce some specific designs that they feel are express violations of thier Patents. They are not attacking the E-Marker industry. No one can say with accuracy how this will resolve, but for now it only involves two companies and even if they win the patent it will only force the companies to change thier designs.

I dont like to perpetuate mis information that is why I called Smart Parts Directly, to get real information. Smart Parts is preparing a Press Release regarding the patent issue, I will forward that information to anyone interested when it arrives.

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley

Then you don't know about the subject you are debating.

Originally posted by shartley

I wouldn't fault them if I thought they had those 3 things legitimately.

I would pat them on the back and be supporting them whole heartedly.

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike
Then you don't know about the subject you are debating.

And it could be argued the same about your statements. It is differing of views, not fact.

Originally posted by manike
I wouldn't fault them if I thought they had those 3 things legitimately.

I would pat them on the back and be supporting them whole heartedly.

[jdev]

^^^^^ yea, what you said

i am interested in recieving this information once it becomes available.

[AndrewGore(OTB)]

Hey,
Here is a little link that might help some people with their patent "questions". http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html Just go and search for patents that were submitted by someone at SP. Maybe then people will see whats really up. Or go here: http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/patents/index.html There are a BUNCH of SP's patents on there. Just make sure you have adobe acrobat.

Andrew -
hopin' this helps clear stuff up a tiny bit

[Thordic]

Blah blah blah, Sam likes to argue, blah blah blah.

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley

Sam once again you are miles off base. What I am saying is facts I know, because I am involved in this.

I know both what SP are doing and how others are countering it. I'm involved, I've spoken directly to many involved, read the patents and case history, as well as helped with information, and have been doing so for many months now.

I'm making known what information I can. You are just making up opinions. Once again you are full of it but not man enough to back down when others know more than you.

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike


Sam once again you are miles off base. What I am saying is facts I know, because I am involved in this.

I know both what SP are doing and how others are countering it. I'm involved, I've spoken directly to many involved, read the patents and case history, as well as helped with information, and have been doing so for many months now.

I'm making known what information I can. You are just making up opinions. Once again you are full of it but not man enough to back down when others know more than you.

[joshuagore]

Originally posted by bryceeden

I dont like to perpetuate mis information that is why I called Smart Parts Directly, to get real information.

I hope you didn't expect to call Smart Parts and get a response like. Yes we are looking to go after all electronic marker manufacturers, which will also ultimately hurt paintball.

Gardner said what he had to.

[shartley]

Originally posted by joshuagore



I hope you didn't expect to call Smart Parts and get a response like. Yes we are looking to go after all electronic marker manufacturers, which will also ultimately hurt paintball.

Gardner said what he had to.