IRAQ THREAD originaly "Seems at least one Brit agrees with me....er us."

[FESTUS33]

Re: Seems at least one Brit agrees with me....er us.

I'm A TechnoTard
Everything in asterisc's is my response.
Rick

Originally posted by Army

But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year.

"Preach ON Brother!!"

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood.

"Even though We American's Had to Take Our Freedom By Force
of Arm's"

half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? Are we so quick to betray them?

"I Hope Not"



And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?

"I Think Not"

The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.

"Is'nt That what Being A SuperPower Mean's {I don't think
We've Abused that Standing}"

The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.

"See Above Comment"

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.

"True Heroes"


Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.

"What Did She Do To Anyone To Deserve that Fate"


And realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have.

"And We Still get Derided for Our Reaction"


So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily Fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes?

"There Is No Such Thing as Friendly Fire, When You're on the Recieving End"


AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?

"We Show Restraint and are Looked Down Upon For It"

"Not A Single One of the Islamic countries, Who's Butt's
We've Pulled Out of the Fire. Will even aknowledge that We even Assisted."


When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.


"Because Our Belief's in Everyone's Right to Religion of Choice"

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe.

"Yes We Could"



I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle.

"I Hate Poodle's, But I'd Pet this One"

But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that.

"Sorry World We Actually Succeeded at What We Set out to Do."


To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, Oh Mighty One!

"Where The Hell Is The Rest of the World Living?"

Remember, remember, September 11 -


One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.


No, do more than remember. Never forget.

[aaron_mag]

Re: Re: Re: next round!

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye

My degree is in Poly Sci.

Poly Sci major! Sheesh. That is about as useful as my Economics and History majors. I've heard it said that President Truman wanted to hire a one handed economist so he didn't have to listen to..."on the other hand...."

[FESTUS33]

Re: Re: Re: Re: next round!

Originally posted by aaron_mag


Poly Sci major! Sheesh. That is about as useful as my Economics and History majors. I've heard it said that President Truman wanted to hire a one handed economist so he didn't have to listen to..."on the other hand...."

ROTFLMMFAO!!

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by cphilip


In Bin Ladens own words they are united in killing Americans. In that they agree. And the Kurds can be rolled by Saddam any time he was to chose. And some of them work and live right in Bagdad. And Saddam looks to terrorists to sell his goodies. Simple as that. Hate makes strange bed fellows. Never discount that. Its real...

You need to spend more time studying history from All sources. Not just spouting what you hear from fellow student and liberaly faculty who notoriously do not keep up with current events of wish to interpret all the information at their disposal. Students tend to take thier information as facts from Zealots that losely interpret things in their own fashion. Colleges typically are not the real world. It's not as simple as it seems. And at your age you tend to think you know it all armed with little information. And in 20 years I want to talk to you again....

That is what I do, cphillip. I study history from both sides, that is how I get the knowledge I get. I don't know how it is at Clemson, but my teachers NEVER tell me what to think or how to think. The teach us to be historians. How to be able to read a book and weigh its view points against all others that you know. And then make a judgment on is it crap or is it truth. They tells us facts (this happened on this day, and that on that, this happened and so forth), we then discuss the reasons and implementations with each other. The teacher normally only chimes in when we say the incorrect thing. Like this year, well it was actually this year, and so forth. I have a daily disagreement with one of my history teachers (who wrote the book that the movie Armistead was based on, as well as many other books dealing with US foreign policy). Everyday we both chime in with our opinions (He is one who will chime in with his opinions). Even though this guy is a PHD and knows a lot more then I do, I still can disagree with him. I normally shut down (meaning out argue) the grad students in the class too. And he appreciates that. That is what makes a historian a historian.

I get tired of everyone counting me as some sponge that soaks up everything people tells them and spits it out as truth. That is very insulting. My opinions I have gained not through others opinions, if it would have you all would have changed my opinions by now, but rather through my own research and such.

And to get back to the discussion. With US planes flying over head protecting the northern fly zone and the Kurds. Do you think that Saddam will be able to get his troops near the Kurdish villages without something happening?

aaron_mag: I am a history, economics, and Russian major with a minor probably in Poly sci (since I have to have that many classes any ways), what does that make me.

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

aaron_mag: I am a history, economics, and Russian major with a minor probably in Poly sci (since I have to have that many classes any ways), what does that make me.

Either a career student or a future professor:) .

You end up using writing and general analytical skills in most jobs anyway. Economics and Political Science majors are not real career training in anything. I suppose that it is good to be a King but not too many openings for those sort of jobs.

[Collegeboy]

It will takeone semester over the normal four years to complete it. But I hope to either be a professor of history or go into foreign policy. (that is with takeing 21 hours a semester, and I am almost done )

But Poly Sci is useful for those going into Law school. Economics is a useful second major, so is a language. History is just my love. No real use there, unless you are going into politics or law.

[Lone Brain Cell]

Money & backscratching is all going on behind the scenes & most of you all cant see the wood for the trees!

A WAR ON TERRORISM.
When Bush said there would be a war on Terrorism, Major stuck up his hand to be first in line. the money trail for terrorists was targeted. Look at the biggest load of Irish in the world outside of Ireland????? you will find them in the States. that is where the IRA's money came from. Bush put a stop to that!! the IRA now talks for peace.

THE 1991 GULF WAR.
Is it a coincidence that the Berlin wall came down in the late 80's & the states had thousands of troops stationed in West Germany. All being paid for by Nato or West Germany?
Sadam decided to invade a neighour. America & Britain went in with all guns blazing!!! but didnt finish the job...

WHY??? because you troops are being paid for by Saudi Arabia.

This worked out fine till some Moron flew a few planes into buildings. The States kicked *** in Afganistan (Lets face it New Zealand could have done that job too) but it cost (and still is costing you guys Billions of dollars)

Now where can Bush find the money to pay for this??? Afganistan hasn't got any wealth other than poppies (poppies make heroin, cant do that it's a bit pollitically incorrect)so We look around & find some unfinished buisness in Iraq & just so happens to have a fist full of oil in their back yard!
Bush says ok who is with us & who is against us?
Britian & Australia stick up their hands ( lets face it We dont have much of a choice here, although our armed forces are pretty good we dont stand much of a chance against any invading force of any great number).........France, Germany & Russia are against.

Why?? Nothing to do with the Humanity Crudd that they are talking about in the media, They have deals with Sadam to manufacture, maintain, buy & sell all the oil in Iraq after the sanctions are lifted.

Now I love the States & Britain, they are Australias allies. they have always been and will always be close friends.

All I am saying is dont believe what you see and read.

These terrorists are pissed at you guys for a reason because you live in the States you dont see why other countries are mad at your pollicies. Because you are the most powerfull country in the world your pollicies can hurt other smaller countries. they get pissed at you & because they think differently to us they use a plane to get the message across.

Osama bin naughty got pissed at ya cos you helped out Afganistan when the USSR invaded, but you dropped them like a hot scone after the russians left. then you set up shop in their ( Muslims ) most sacred land ( SAUDI ) to "Guard" againd the possible threat comming from Sadam.

People throughout the world think differently than Us its just our job to hammer em if they stick up their heads eh Boys

Now I agree with givin Sadam a boot in the Bum. he lost a war & he's been pissin us all off with his blatant disregard for the "unconditonal surrender" he agreed to.
But just watch out for a bunch of very pissed off ragheads commin out at ya if ya do!

[ShooterJM]

I'm getting tired of psuedo-intellectuals giving people under 25 a bad name.

[oldsoldier]

Tell you what; travel overseas, see how you get treated as an american. Most of the free world is envious of us; hell we've been compared to Rome, and, half the world awaits our downfall.
I want to point out something between "terrorism" and legitimate combat action. Terrorism is done by a government that is either too weak to go to war, or does not have the means necessary to spread their "word of faith". These people are funded, by governments, using the guise of "religion", to go out and kill innocent civilians, all in the name of bringing their message of struggle (or whatever they think their current plight is) to the world. Palenstine, to this day, DENIES targeting innocent civilians, yet, they blow human bombs up on commuter buses, in shopping malls, and in crowded open market areas. Terroism is now, and always will be aimed at CIVILIANS. Why, because they dont fight back, and it is their attempt to say "see? We can hit you anywhere, anytime."
We have not intentionally targeted ANY civilians during this campaign. We do not commit murder. we do not send in lone soldiers (mind you, we are required, with the exception of a few units, to wear an easily identified uniform, to let the enemy know we are a legitimate fighting force), and blow up, oh, lets say mosques, open air markets, or town squares. The world seems to forget that we posess enough firepower to defeat ANY opponent, alone, without any allies. Thankfully, we have many in this great world. We used restraint, which, as has been pointed out, IS diplomacy. We told Iraq that they had no more chances, yet, Britain pursuaded us to give them a little more time. We are awaiting the advice of the UN, when we really dont need to. Why? Because, if we remove ourselves from there, it is eventually fall apart. Although we dont commit the most troops, they do depend on us to back them up, when they get into trouble. We also contribute a large amount of money to them.
Personally, I think all this debate is getting old. I serve, and will do what is expected of me. My brethren will do the same. You can be grateful, and sleep peacefully at night, knowing that someowhere out there in the world, a soldier sleeps restlessly, hungry, cold, wet, thinking of loved ones, all while protecting your right to disagree.

[Collegeboy]

Well technically you can say that the Palestinians are not targeting civilians. (Notice I said technically). Every male between 18 and I think 30 are required to be in some sort of reserve military force. So basically all they have to do is say we are targeting that one male 22 year old, and they are not targeting civilians. That is why they can say that, and continually says that.

Speaking of funding the UN. The US stands to lose its seat on the security council if it doesn't pay its debts to the UN. (Notice they will not lose it, but the US still do owe the UN alot of money)

Alot of people do hate us, and I do not see it as envious. They despise us for how little we care about the average person. We care about our own goals, and then pull out once we get what we want. (Notice again this is their position)

[oldsoldier]

coolegeboy, they can say what they want, but, look at the facts; they go onto a bus(forinstance). Why? More people. If they were targeting, say, a checkpoint, then it would be legit. But, when you design a bomb, spceifically to cause alot of damage to surrounding people by introducin nails, screws, or whatever you have on hand, then, blow it up on a bus, with the KNOWLEDGE that the bus will rip apart, causing FURTHER damage to nearby civilians, totally debunks thier "idea" of targeting males in the certain age group. It is a veil of lies (and a weak veil at that), that they use to "make a point".
As far as the US owing UN money, yes, true, but, look at how many UN members owe US money? And, how much we contribute in aid to alot of the countries beloniging to the UN? Again, if we pulled out, they would fall apart due to lack of funding.
I want to keep it civil here, and I will amke every attempt to do so. I understand your opposition to the war. I just ask that you understand mine. I will not argue about your beliefs, but I do enjoy debating the world politics stuff :)

[Kevmaster]

you know what i find interesting, there have been only THREE UN approved conflicts: Korean War. Gulf War. Afganistan "War". FRANCE, RUSSIA, CHINA NEVER took it upon themselves to ask permission to do what they chose to do from the 50's into the 90's.

[Collegeboy]

Thanks, I wish not to discuss the war either

I understand that the Palestinians use it as an excuse and they intend to do more damage. That is why I don't support their bombings. Just like I don't support Israel fires missiles into apartment complexes or machine gunning a crowd of people, or dropping a bomb on an entire apartment complex to kill one guy while creating 1,000 or more new terrorist in the process. My opinions on the situation are both sides are at fault, Israel needs to back out of the land they illegally occupy. Will that stop the Palestinians, probably not? But at least Israel has taken away any argument the Palestinians have. And bring international attention to it.

The US gives money to UN nations, but not to the UN as it is suppose to. The US uses the money that it is supposed to give to the UN to fund these expenditures directly to nations. It is in a sort trying to gain support for the US, while taking support away from the UN. It really doesn't matter if other countries owe us money, we owe them too. (I think last time I check we owed over a billion to China for some government bonds they bought off of Japan)

[Collegeboy]

Look at the partition plan of 1948 (I think that is the year). That is Israels legal boundaries. Anything beyond that is illegally taken. And the UN has asked Israel to stop its attacks and to leave the occupied land, they refuse to.

[shartley]