Airgun's worst decesion in a long time

[Miscue]

Word up my gilled friend.

[Grendel]

Re: To John Dresser...the really smart guy

Originally posted by Tunaman
Tom knows exactly what he is doing, and apparently knows what is best for HIS company.

These products are of the highest quality, and the customer service is second to none.

He is the leader in paintball technology and didn't earn that title by making "bad business decisions". Sorry for the rant, but it pissed me off.
LONG LIVE AGD!

Wow. Where to start? If Tom knew exactly what he was doing, would AGD be in danger of closing its doors? I don't think so!!!

The products are of high quality. The customer service was so good because their senior tech was one smart guy. Now he is gone.

Of course Tom has made bad decesions! When is the last time you shot an automag pump? How well does your Z-Grip work? Or is this too old skool, but that automatic CO2 cartridge changer was too little too late considering constant air was already around. Not to mention the big stupid battery pack on the front of every E-Mag. Sorry, every E-mag but Jeff's.

If there were more Jeffs in paintball, there wouldn't be so many guns down all the time. Every paintball gun would probably work.

Infamous G

[DarkPhoenix]

I'm sorry. I do not know Jeff. What I do know however is that this thread has become nothing more than a flame fest, this was entirely the reason why, I believe, the earlier thread was locked. Why are we questioning what is going on in the business aspects of Airgun Designs? What brought you into the world of Automags? Was it the product or was it one man? To my understanding, the automag was a product ahead of its time, it set the standard in the paintball world for a long time. To my limited understanding, the popularity of AGD is on the rise. It started with the introduction of the RT, Warp Feed, RT Pro, and now, the E-mag. I do not know of any other company that has such devotion to their product and their customers. I am sure that Jeff is a great man, a true technical wizard and genius, I have not heard of him till today. Why are we flinging dirt at this company for making, what must have been, a needed decision. Do you know what is going on in the halls of Airgun Designs? If not, and I am sure most of us do not, let us all keep out of their business. Great companies are not made by one person, but by many. I do not know if you realize it, but even we have helped propel AGD to where it is today and we will help it in the years ahead. Now let us all be good little children. Grow up and be good to one another.

[irbodden]

Please look at it this way, even though he might be a GREAT worker, the economy is taking a nose dive right now, small companies are really getting hurt by this. He was only a part time worker who had a very flexible schedule, and part time workers are the first to go during times like these. You do not have any clue what is going on moneywise behind the scenes at AGD, they maybe getting hurt just as bas (or worse) as everyone else. Please look at it from a realistic standpoint.

[Tunaman]

Re: Re: To John Dresser...the really smart guy

Originally posted by Grendel


Wow. Where to start? If Tom knew exactly what he was doing, would AGD be in danger of closing its doors? I don't think so!!!

The products are of high quality. The customer service was so good because their senior tech was one smart guy. Now he is gone.

Of course Tom has made bad decesions! When is the last time you shot an automag pump? How well does your Z-Grip work? Or is this too old skool, but that automatic CO2 cartridge changer was too little too late considering constant air was already around. Not to mention the big stupid battery pack on the front of every E-Mag. Sorry, every E-mag but Jeff's.

If there were more Jeffs in paintball, there wouldn't be so many guns down all the time. Every paintball gun would probably work.

Infamous G

Well it's like this...My Automag pump works just fine, my Z-Grip functions perfect, and my 6-pack is a necessity for those stock games we still play. And my Emag battery will stay where it is, and not rigged up like a ghetto rig. And I am waiting for another manufacturer to come out with a smaller "stupid battery pack" that will run my Warp, Revvy AND Emag. Not gonna happen. And one more thing...if you drifted over here from the Dojo, why don't you just drift back over there. I believe I speak for many in saying we don't need comments like yours in our forums.

[Grendel]

Part time?

Originally posted by irbodden
He was only a part time worker who had a very flexible schedule, and part time workers are the first to go during times like these.

How was AGD's Senior Tech a "part time" worker? How did he have a "very flexible" schedule? Why are you making things up? According to this board, Jeff worked at Airgun 8 years.

I met Jeff at an event where he was very nice to my team. He made such an impression:

1. I was very impressed
2. I thought he was being paid to be there
3. I bought an E-Mag

Sorry, but I don't post on paintballdojo.com. Sorry I don't have as many posts as you do, but it doesn't mean I don't have a point.

G

[Army]

I'm locking this one also, since you didn't get the hint from the last one...

[thei3ug]

Uhh, being a person who's been laid off within the past year and has had a firsthand experience with the economy...

I say stop raggin on AGD. Really. It's rediculous. Jeff was a good guy, but he's still getting agd benefits and working for them.

[Grendel]

Hey Tunaman and Tom Kaye

First off, do you really know 500+ users of Automags. Second off, how many emags do you think Airgun sells... I have a friend who uses these guns exclusively, his name is PGP... Give him a call he is the captain of the Jax Warriors, and ask him what he thinks about the guns he has. Oh yeah then ask him how many times he asked Jeff to work on them. Maybe you and your 500 friends could become the best scenario team in paintball. The fact of the matter is AGD showed no loyalty to Jeff. Another thing I use an angel and I just had to pay WDP $25 in Atlantic City to fix it. As for cockers I know Danny Love and if you don't you can bet your sweet a$$ your getting charged to fix that cocker. When I mean loyalty, I am speaking of the last thread where it said that Jeff would have to be asked to quite tournament ball. That option was never even given, just a haul a$$ thank you for your time and give Rennick all your secrets so that he can try and keep my company afloat. In case you are wondering what that is... Rennick has made a deal with AGD to do a Shocktech version of the bulk mag. "EMAG"

In saying all of that you can post your response but know this Tom will not send you that free T-shirt you and your 500+ friends were hoping for.

Grendel


PGP's number is 904-274-2282 "Paul Bollenbach"

[krafty]

Please lock it. What I see here are a few of Jeff's friends trying to flame his former employer. Privately held company, private business. That's how it should be. If Jeff has a gripe, lets see him take legal action and claim wrongful termination. Otherwise, shut it.

[Arturus]

This is sad...

I would stick up for a friend, just as much, but not in this fashion. Absolutely without class... and nor have you heard 'both' sides of the story.

From what I know of Jeff so far, he sounds like a great guy and even better, someone who cared for the company - AGD in this case - and genuinly did his best to serve it's customers. And you know what? He sounds like a great guy off the job and the field as well, according to all the positives I've read of him.

Chances are, I might have even had a conversation over the phone with him when I had problems with my marker.

but... I have a feeling Jeff himself can... Take care of himself? And I also have a feeling, that Jeff and Tom have spoken about this issue. Who are you and the others, to come here and points fingers and generalize the whole issue, even belittling Jeff in my opinion, in the whole process.

I'll go even further to say that you're probably not a bad guy at all, and in any other situation, we've probably would have had a decent conversation. It shows character that you would stand up for a friend and speak for him... but guess what? I think I speak for the majority, who visit this public forum, when I say this (along with all the other posts) isn't doing Jeff, much good at all.

Not at all.

By the way, my apologies as well. I don't know the whole story of how this started or where it'll lead to. You and the others who have posted in 'protest', probably do know a lot more of what's been happening. This still isn't a way to go about it though.

[AGD]

Army, I opened this one back up because I feel that even though this is getting into a flame people will think we are censoring the subject to protect ourselves. I am on the hot seat here and I believe I am the only president of a paintball company that would be willing to sit here in public and get shot up. The same thing happened last time when we let Sparky go years ago and people said the EXACTLY same thing, but of course no one talks about him now.

Of all the paintball gun manufacturers there were in the eighties there are only three left now, Worr Games, Tippman and AGD. Sure I make mistakes, but I must have made a few less than a lot of other gun manufacturers. It's not that we didn't listen to Jeff, we were too busy doing other things like military guns. Up until last week military stuff might have looked pretty stupid but I sure have a lot of people from DC calling us now.

Custom guns are a great idea, light weight Super Bolts are a great idea and I give Jeff all the credit. Only problem is they wear out, sometimes REALLY fast. Now Jeff couldn't solve that problem so if you would like one that may or may not last see him, if you want one with a replacable sleeve then you have to wait for me to solve that problem.

The most important thing in AGD is NOT me, the managers or the staff, it's the customers. Right or wrong I try to make decisions that will ultimately benefit them. This forum and the 2000 people that come here every day are evidence of that. These people here are a cross section of who AGD needs to listen too and we do. I didn't design the Intelliframe, I didn't name the Intelliframe and no one at AGD packaged the Intelliframe, everyone HERE did. The back of the package has the name of the AGD customer that created it in tribute to his genius.

A lot of times I purposely do not listen to customers if what they want is something that doesn't do what they think it does. For this I am constantly belittled by others in this industry "give them what they want, who cares if it works" I am not now, nor have I ever been a snake oil salesman. I would rather die bankrupt and pennyless than have one person come up to me and say I lied to them about my products. I will be the first to admit we are loosing the snake oil war. It's all I can do to keep quiet when I see young guys work their tails off to buy something THAT DOES ABSOULUTELY NOTHING!! Of course there are a thousand experts that will tell you exactly why it does work so Tom must be wrong..... fine I'm wrong. If I didn't listen to Jeff it's because I didn't believe the idea had a basis in fact.

So that is my rant, there is more to the Jeff story but that's between him and me. I didn't wake up in the morning and decide that this is a great day to lay off a bunch of people, it was a calculated, long studied, carefully weighed plan that had to happen. Jeff is a friend of mine and in the end this move will help him get out of his current situation and get him going again. He came in and we talked for a half hour today about a lot of different things. If his friends wedding doesn't conflict he will be teching at the Masters. If he wants to setup shop Shrieberizing guns we will support him in that endeavor, it's up to him.

Right now there is a recession going on and for most of you this is a new experience. The good times are over people, there are now thousands of people out of work here in Chicago and it's getting worse every day. The rest of the staff here at AGD agrees with everything I did. I hope this was the right move to air our dirty laundry in public, most inteligent businessmen would say it isn't. This is another one of those things that someone can point too later and say "it was stupid for him to do that..."

AGD

[magking1971]

Thanks tom.

[automagseeker]

Well said Mr. Kaye, and thanks for clearing this up for me anyways, you still have me as a customer even tho I am seling my mag, b/c I am buying another. Thanks for the great company and customer service. :)

[Arturus]

Originally posted by Grendel

Wow. Where to start? If Tom knew exactly what he was doing, would AGD be in danger of closing its doors? I don't think so!!!

Infamous G

Have you ever been in the 'business' world before? Run your own business? Had business partners? Worked at a major corporation?

Or hell, even been a customer to a company that could care less about you?

Then you'll understand, when I say this. Many companies that aren't in danger of closing it's doors, are often the same ones who could care less about you and those you speak of.

Cheap material, low quality, 2nd rate customer service... All ways of making money and have the ability to give a company huge profit margins. Are you honestly on here, to criticize the way a company does business?

I mean look, BE is doing a great job... Good business decisions right? (sorry, BE has it's role in the industry and I respect it, but had to use some real world example). I'm sure they're on a constant look out for new customers.