Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

[DK1]

Originally posted by shartley

well, you are absolutly right on a lot of things. However the point of this is not a company enforcing their rights.. it's a discussion about if they should have the right. Does SP have the right to patent the electro? Other companies HAVE patented things, and noone has thrown a fit about it. Does anyone think it's ok to copy the shocker or Imp? NO. Don't go making those clones, but the basis for the design is public knowledge, and has been for some time.

And as for this being competitive and just standard jockying in business, that's not true. Patents are inherently anti-competitive. They are there to promote innovation. If noone has the assurance that their ideas won't be stolen, it gives them less incentive to design new things. Patents don't make things more competitve, they eliminate competition. That's not necessarily bad, as you can see, innovation is a good thing. However when someone patents an invention that isn't theirs, what do you do?

So no, this isn't all just a polarization, whipped up by emotional exuberance. It's about intellectual property rights, and their affect on an industry many use and depend on for goods. The argument is that SP shouldn't be allowed to force others to stop producing, because they have no legitimate claim to the invention of these products.

not a major disagreement, I try to be as unbiased as possible. But I've seen enough to know that SP knows that what they are doing is shady, and yet they continue.

DK1

[Johnny_Reb]

Its my opinion that paintball will never see the light of day compared to tennis, football, or baseball. No one will be interested as long as there is inter-industry fighting. the paintball industry cant agree to help paintball. Companies only want to help themselves.

Well I doubt paintball will ever be as possible as those sports but I do know that there will always be interindustry fighting, there is in every sport. In baseball theres always competetion for the best bat. Louisville Slugger is always competetive with Rowlings and other bat makers for the title of best bat.

In basketball theres interindustry competition for who makes the best shoe. Interindustry competition will always exist.

[shartley]

Originally posted by DK1
well, for those who are saying that this will help mechanical markers, I'm sure you're right. But do you think that the onslaught of cheap electros had anything to do with the affordability of mech's nowadays? I remember my brother bought his first spyder for $140. Powerfeed, m16 grip, and just a regular bottomline. Now what does $140 get you? Prolly a vert feed egrip with a regulator. You can get a BKO for $250 now... stock cockers can be found for just a little over $300, and that's with vert feed and a 45 swing frame. Cockers used to be $400 for rf and a old crappy grip. Even more the further you go back. Not to mention the details that they added, like drilling the bodies to adjust the sear lug, valve jam nuts, and decent stock pneumatics.

The mag has undergone constant renovation during this time, and the price has still declined.

Mags and cockers, while also affected heavily by the vert bodies and lvl10, have gotten cheaper because of electros.

If the sport goes back to the day when there are no electros, do you think the now ultra-competitive mechs are going to keep their prices low? Maybe, Tom Kaye is a nice guy, but from a business standpoint, I just don't see it happening industry wide. Think also of the paint consumption... that might affect your playing price a little when RPS and ProCaps can't sell as much paint. Might be slight, but it will affect it.

So no, it might not kill the sport, and paintball did exist before the advent of the electro, but I don't want to go back to paying those prices.

DK1

[Johnny_Reb]

True but there would be a huge price increase that would all but accomplish that for SP. Doc Nickel has a good article about that, hang on while I find it.Doc's article There.

[JT2002]

all of you guys keep talking about electros like smart parts is gonna take every persons gun and throw it in a barn fire. even if sp does win and less electros are made anymore, the fact is that there are still hundreds of thousands of electro markers out there being used every year already, and smart parts cant do ANYTHING about electro guns that the people already own and use. so i dont really see how a lot of people think that all the electros will just dissapear. and every electro thats already out there will still be around for a long time.

[icegod]

Originally posted by shartley

Shartley nice comments, also just wanted to add that IF the prices were to increase to cover the extras being forced, and SP would sale their markers cheaper to under cut the competition (which any smart business would do whether its right or wrong, good or bad ethics whatever), then there would be a fade on electronic based companies such as WDP, they would have to adapt with a mechanical marker to make up for loss of sales, or fade to non-existance. IF SP were to win, and the prices jump, several companies, WDP inpeticular would have a hard time surviving. They're already one of the most expensive markers, and the 3 markers they have (lcd, speed, ir3) are all high priced. Adding more $$ on to that to cover fees and etc, would possibly cause a company collapse and they go outta business. kinda like alot of smaller computer companies did because of microsoft, they just couldnt compete because microsoft had monopolized the industry basically and undercut everyone to the point they ran out of business over time. Maybe it wouldnt be fast, but like slowly fade and say 5 years later be gone. Electro's won't stop, because everything is going to computer's, but there are some companies that will take great loses and stradle the fence of going out of business or not, especially the electro-based ones without mechanical counterparts.

But anyways great points :)

[Johnny_Reb]

all of you guys keep talking about electros like smart parts is gonna take every persons gun and throw it in a barn fire. even if sp does win and less electros are made anymore, the fact is that there are still hundreds of thousands of electro markers out there being used every year already, and smart parts cant do ANYTHING about electro guns that the people already own and use. so i dont really see how a lot of people think that all the electros will just dissapear. and every electro thats already out there will still be around for a long time.

While that is a good point, you would have to buy a new electro eventually(unless you own an Emag)and unless you want to pay a lot of money for one it would have to be SP.

Even with all the electros out there, manufacturers would stop making money, and new ppl buy electros every day, and if SP wins most of which would be their products.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
Well I doubt paintball will ever be as possible as those sports but I do know that there will always be interindustry fighting, there is in every sport. In baseball theres always competetion for the best bat. Louisville Slugger is always competetive with Rowlings and other bat makers for the title of best bat.

In basketball theres interindustry competition for who makes the best shoe. Interindustry competition will always exist.

AARRRGGG... You guys are missing the point... or at least my point. Paintball is the only sport that is pretty much run by the manufacturers of the products. We buy more products than most sports. Products run the game. Painball IS about buying stuff. Most other sports deal mainly with Team owners, Players, and Stadium owners. The manufacturers of products (baseball bats, shoes, helmets) have very little control over where the sport actually goes. If Franklin sues Rallings, it doesnt effect where the Giants will play. If Nike decides it wants out of Baseball, baseball wont take a hit compared to WDP pulling out of paintball.

Thats my point. We are different because we are controlled by the companies that make our product driven sport. If Miami Effect wins three majors in a row, Empire, and Draxxus win out because they sponsor Effect. Where as if the Niners win the superbowl, no one thinks of Owens' cleats.

And yes, rec ball may be the bigger money draw in painball, but its not the part of paintball that will grow in public notariety any time soon. Tourney ball will. Tourney ball teams stand to grow in public popularity if paintball ever goes mainstream. But with Big Name Companies running the sport according to their own interests, I dont see it happening. I'm not talking about companies being concerned with money. Of course they are. But they dont seem to be the least bit concerned about the greater good of the the sport they run.

[Johnny_Reb]

AARRRGGG... You guys are missing the point... or at least my point. Paintball is the only sport that is pretty much run by the manufacturers of the products. We buy more products than most sports. Products run the game. Painball IS about buying stuff

Sorry for us missing your point buddy, but look at BMX is pretty much run by the manufacturers. So is skateboarding, but they are still successful sports. If Im still missing your point Ill drop it here.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
Sorry for us missing your point buddy, but look at BMX is pretty much run by the manufacturers. So is skateboarding, but they are still successful sports. If Im still missing your point Ill drop it here.

Haha, its ok. You have a good point about BMX and skateboarding. They are similar, but they both seemed to have reached a point where they promote the sport with their business interests. Paintball companies dont seem to have that understanding yet.

[Johnny_Reb]

Paintball companies dont seem to have that understanding yet.

Exactly, last time I checked paintball had more particpants than BMX, but paintball companies have been more"underground" about advertising paintball, and in order for paintball to grow like BMX and Skateboarding it will take an understanding between the companies and not trying to sue eachother.

EDIT:BTW I think this thread should be made a classic:)

[shartley]

Originally posted by DK1


well, you are absolutly right on a lot of things. However the point of this is not a company enforcing their rights.. it's a discussion about if they should have the right. Does SP have the right to patent the electro? Other companies HAVE patented things, and noone has thrown a fit about it. Does anyone think it's ok to copy the shocker or Imp? NO. Don't go making those clones, but the basis for the design is public knowledge, and has been for some time.

And as for this being competitive and just standard jockying in business, that's not true. Patents are inherently anti-competitive. They are there to promote innovation. If noone has the assurance that their ideas won't be stolen, it gives them less incentive to design new things. Patents don't make things more competitve, they eliminate competition. That's not necessarily bad, as you can see, innovation is a good thing. However when someone patents an invention that isn't theirs, what do you do?

So no, this isn't all just a polarization, whipped up by emotional exuberance. It's about intellectual property rights, and their affect on an industry many use and depend on for goods. The argument is that SP shouldn't be allowed to force others to stop producing, because they have no legitimate claim to the invention of these products.

not a major disagreement, I try to be as unbiased as possible. But I've seen enough to know that SP knows that what they are doing is shady, and yet they continue.

DK1

Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
True but there would be a huge price increase that would all but accomplish that for SP. Doc Nickel has a good article about that, hang on while I find it.Doc's article There.

Originally posted by icegod

But anyways great points :)

[Mutilus]

It's taking a while and there are probably many lawsuits to come but sooner or later it will have to come together in the paintball industry or it will die off.

[FutureMagOwner]

hmmm anyone else notice how this is one of the larger threads on ao and it happened over night?


anyway for playing i could see good coming out of no electronic guns(no more debates about bounce etc thats coming on electros) however it would cause the death of many small businesses

[boy]

What a bunch of homo's!!!!!
Even though i shoot a imp that is stupid!!