Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

[Animal Mother]

Originally posted by Surreal
it was a broad statement to get people to shut the hell up. you are using linux, i see you want a cookie. that's why i said 99% and not 100%, because i knew there would be someone to come in and say what you just said lol.'

Actually quite a few people here use macs and other platforms. Show me the sever logs showing that it's 99%.

I see you own a SmartParts product.. I guess that means you have to defend it.

::snickers::

[Surreal]

i'm not defending SP. i disagree with what they're doing, but who am i to tell them how to run their company?

****, if there's really something i want done, i want kingman to start suing all these goddamn spyder clone companies .. i'm tired of seeing a new spyder every week lol.

btw, i'm selling my impulse, want to buy it? :)

[Surreal]

by the way, yes, i own a SP product. i also own products from:

AGD
JT
WDP
CCM
ND
BE
VL
ACI
Crossfire
PMI
ect.


the thing that really is just annoying to see, most of the people who post in these threads are 14 year old kids who don't know jack crap about anything and they are just bobbing their head like a mime and repeating what these 'powerful' people are saying. most of them are just followers, get some personality and make your own decisions.


what about NPS? you guys don't seem to care what NPS is doing to all these companies..? it's all a big scheme, that's how business works fellas.

[MarkM]

Varying links etc have been posted up with reference to "past" attempts at "bad trading" but the links I haven't seen again (that I mentioned in my first post) are the other patents that Smart Parts holds with the description on a Paint "gun" "projectile" whatever it is called...these patents albeit on the back burner while all the "electro" patents are pursued will be the next step as they cover mechanical markers...so does someone want to post them up again...I have lost the links to them or I would post them myself If any of you think that this will just go away, think again it "may" just be settled in some kind of way we don't get to hear about directly...a little like the BE v Odyessy fiasco but IF this electro case goes the way of Smart Parts then there will be no stopping them in pursuing the other patents they hold. I do have to say that when the links to "those" patents when they were last on the web I read them and although very heavy going...I'm sure that a lot of other people not connected to the paintball industry would have something to say about the "rights" etc.

[icegod]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Guys, this patent has nothing to do with people, just manufacturers. People can do whatever they want. Anyone selling a marker commercially that violated Smart Parts' patent would be subject to criminal and/or civil prosecution.

Just to reitterate this comment and add a little input. Since someone had said for AGD to patent the air system so SP couldn't use it. Well technically it'd just kill their maxflo. It won't make it where they can only run their markers on co2 due to the fact that the consumer decides what to use on their marker, not SP. As Jim said, it has nothing to do with people, just manufacturers. The only way other than the market prices of markers, that it would effect is if by some act of god, they caused all mechanical markers to no longer be made and tournament series and fields adopted only SP electro clauses. But that leaves mechanical markers. If it went that far which it wont unless they get some miricle, the only effect will be as Doc was saying with the pricing, causing other markers to go up higher and higher, while SP has lower costs. IF that occured and at that time a SP boycott didn't occur, then more than likely the major players would fade out leaving SP as the sole electro empire, and thus the demise of paintball for the most part. Before that could happen though, they'd have to fight just about every company and every organization paintball related to have that much power, and it seems to be heading to that. Brass Eagle, WDP, JT, NPS, DYE (since they now own rights to the matrix) etc have enough $$ to tie this up in courts for several years and probably running SP bankrupt if they wanted.

So before making comments to patent this or that to stop SP from using this or that, check the reality and look who is the one that choses what is used on what, which is US the consumer.

Just wanted to make that comment that its some of the comments are a little far-fetched because we're the ones as consumers that decided what we use on each marker. Keep all the posts coming, its great im glad to see im not the only anti-sp, even though i've been one for 3-4years or so now :P. Also has there been like an online or a writen petition set up or started? those have an effect alot of times. Instead of everyone spamming SP with emails about it, to which their reply will only consist of denying that they're doing anything other than suing ICD. Most of it gets directed to Spesh, though he's a good person and friend, he's doing his job and has to say nothing is going on other than what is "public information" and as far as what Jim had given out earlier, SP probably doesnt want that public knowledge yet bc of how its went sense with everyone pooling links, documents and etc to help go against SP. But its the right thing to do :) and thanks for the info. Keep giving us all you can since you are a heavy hitter with this sport and have better access to this info and we'll keep finding documents and precidents to help stop this mockery and monopolization :)

[shartley]

Originally posted by Surreal
what about NPS? you guys don't seem to care what NPS is doing to all these companies..? it's all a big scheme, that's how business works fellas.

[Yamz]

I dont like what I hear but untill TK or someone else asks for help with a boycot or something I recomend we wait and see. I do have faith that our justice system though flawed will preveil(sp?) and with the money BE, Kingman, WGP, WDP, and anyone else I missed this will get tied up in the courts untill a proper solution comes around.

To who ever said that these forums are mostly 14 year olds who dont know "jack about crap" 1- you are underestimating are nations 14 year olds and 2- most people I listen to and respect on this forum are far older that 14 for example TK, Doc, WAS, sharlty(even though he always seems to have a diffrent opinion than those around him), and Im pretty sure all the mods are atleast of voting age.

[Ov3rmind]

shartley, don't forget some of the negative effects of the "worst possible outcome". Thousands of people with electronic markers not backed by companies able to support them, many paintball businesses flop, and many people lose jobs. It would be better if SP did not pursue this, even if you dislike electros. As many problems as you said it would solve, I'm also sure it could create just as much or more new problems.

[1stdeadeye]

This is very bad!

To those that say wait for someone else do do something, remember the parable about the good man and the Nazis.

He did nothing when they came for his neighbor. They were Jewish. He did nothing when they came for his other neighbor. He was a gypsie. No one did anything when they came for him!

Greed starts on a small scale. SP will shake down little guys like AGD, WGP, and WDP. Yes, in the larger scheme of things those 3 are little companies. Then he will go after the Kingmans, NPS, and BEs.

Has anyone noticed the new Smart Parts campaign in your latest PB mags? They are not aimed at you and me, but at dealers and vendors. They are trying to convince resalers to buy directly from them rather then through a distributer like NPS. Laying the ground work for when Gino cuts him off maybe?

Fortunately Gino is just as greedy as SP. Don't be suprised if he goes after them to protect his own interests down the road, not as a benevolant interloper in the first round of lawsuits.

[phatpat47]

shartley they will find a way to adapt, but I highly doubt. and I mean highly that there will ever be a paintball scene with no electronic guns.

However it turns out I just dont see people switching back to automags and cockers. This is pretty much a fantasy of your that you made up because you dont like electros for some reason. they are the future and will be no matter what SP does.

[jinxed]

Originally posted by Surreal
what about NPS? you guys don't seem to care what NPS is doing to all these companies..? it's all a big scheme, that's how business works fellas.

What are you talking about. Everyone thinks that Gino is a crook. He uses his buying leverage to push small wholesalers out of business, and makes it hard for retailers to make a profit.

Yes, SmartParts is alot like NPS. Both are large greedy companies that use underhand tactics to get an advantage.
The difference is that Gino actually makes prices lower by undercutting the market. I think he is the main reason why paintball is a fraction of the cost it was 10 years ago.

SmartParts will make prices higher by forcing other
companies to pay high royalty fees.

Its easy to say that its "just business", and we should move on, but what Smart Parts is doing is not legal.
SmartParts DOES NOT have a legitimate patent on anything.
There were MANY electros that came out before the PVI Shocker and some were even patented.
However, the problem is that SmartParts has skilled patent lawyers gifted at manipulating the system.
The other companies can barely afford any lawyer.

And that is the point- Smart Parts hopes that the other companies will fold under pressure.
This is bad for the player.

-Nick

[shartley]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
shartley, don't forget some of the negative effects of the "worst possible outcome". Thousands of people with electronic markers not backed by companies able to support them, many paintball businesses flop, and many people lose jobs. It would be better if SP did not pursue this, even if you dislike electros. As many problems as you said it would solve, I'm also sure it could create just as much or more new problems.

Originally posted by Yamz
I dont like what I hear but untill TK or someone else asks for help with a boycot or something I recomend we wait and see. I do have faith that our justice system though flawed will preveil(sp?) and with the money BE, Kingman, WGP, WDP, and anyone else I missed this will get tied up in the courts untill a proper solution comes around.

To who ever said that these forums are mostly 14 year olds who dont know "jack about crap" 1- you are underestimating are nations 14 year olds and 2- most people I listen to and respect on this forum are far older that 14 for example TK, Doc, WAS, sharlty(even though he always seems to have a diffrent opinion than those around him), and Im pretty sure all the mods are atleast of voting age.

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
This is very bad!

To those that say wait for someone else do do something, remember the parable about the good man and the Nazis.

He did nothing when they came for his neighbor. They were Jewish. He did nothing when they came for his other neighbor. He was a gypsie. No one did anything when they came for him!

Greed starts on a small scale. SP will shake down little guys like AGD, WGP, and WDP. Yes, in the larger scheme of things those 3 are little companies. Then he will go after the Kingmans, NPS, and BEs.

Has anyone noticed the new Smart Parts campaign in your latest PB mags? They are not aimed at you and me, but at dealers and vendors. They are trying to convince resalers to buy directly from them rather then through a distributer like NPS. Laying the ground work for when Gino cuts him off maybe?

Fortunately Gino is just as greedy as SP. Don't be suprised if he goes after them to protect his own interests down the road, not as a benevolant interloper in the first round of lawsuits.

Originally posted by phatpat47
shartley they will find a way to adapt, but I highly doubt. and I mean highly that there will ever be a paintball scene with no electronic guns.

However it turns out I just dont see people switching back to automags and cockers. This is pretty much a fantasy of your that you made up because you dont like electros for some reason. they are the future and will be no matter what SP does.

[jdev]

well, i just killed the first hour and half at work reading this entire thread. lots of interesting posts and lots of interesting viewpoints..

few things I have to say..

tom, from what I understand, the ULE trigger didnt just come to you in a dream, so I have to ask, how long have you known that this patent lawsuit was on its way?

I look over a few things here and realize that what SP is trying to do is not really in the best interest of the sport. as someone already posted about disney suing that kid over the use of a disney character, he is right. If a company does not enforce their patent, copyright, trademark or whatever, they lose the right to it.

ill be honest with some of you here, not that it matters, but, the next marker i was looking to pick up was a vision impy.. ill tell you what, after this its not a likely purchase for me now, nor in the near future.

while i personally do not agree with what SP as a company in the industry is doing, I cannot blame them for trying to enforce a patent that they supposedly hold. If ANY of you were in the position that smart parts was to enforce said patent, you would be in a courtroom filing to defend that patent or broaden it (which is it that they are actually filing for.. to defend or broaden.. or have they already brodened and going to defend?)

I may have missed this in this thread, but I have not seen one link to the FTC that says SP holds the patent on electropneumatic paintball markers. If I missed that, please correct me and re-post the link.

also, the navy.. I may have missed that one too, if there is a direct link to the FTC showing the patents, I want to see it as well.

I would have to say, bottom line, this does suck. I am almost sure that with this lawsuit, companies that normally are cut-throat competitive with eachother, will unite on this one and made themselves be heard, that this is total BS. If they dont, shame on them.

"it is better to have fought and lost than not to have fought at all"

having not fighting at all, there is no telling what may or may not have resulted. if you stand idly by and do nothing, there is no telling how the results may have changed had you stood up and made your voice heard...

perfect example of this is the song "i will be heard" by Hatebreed. give it a listen.

[Johnny_Reb]

Where's your proof? You have no idea how long I've been playing paintball.

Just cant get threw to some ppl.....

My proof? Here:

Angels were the first gun to really "flood" the scene.

Yknow I could agrue that the SMG-60 was the first to "flood" the scene but Im not gonna waste my time.

Shockers were extremely popular when they were first released and flooded the scene, proving you wrong. And about that whole SP first electro thing, if you ask a player who ivented the electro, unless they go and search hard for it they will say"Smart Parts".SP is credited with the first electro, not the Navy or anything else.

Either way you look at it ppl will still buy SP products. Impys and Shockers are stand up products. Most ppl in paintball arent "in the know". They dont understand that we should all hate SP, and will continue buying products from them.

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
AGD really should patent compressed air for paintball guns, then SP can bow down from it's Nazi perch and kiss AGD's ***.

This is terrible, any company who takes money over the sport they market for does not deserve a profit at all. From here on out, I will NEVER buy a single SP product ever. And just incase and SP head honchos stumble across this, I am going to advise everyone I play with and other people at my local fields to do the same.

I am sort of worried about this.

Will this start a huge patent war? Will all companies rush to find somethign they can patent, and when this is all over, making it hard for ANYONE to make anything?

Anywhoo, I believe AGD should patent air tanks (or the flatline regulator, but the tank itself would be more secure), single tube design, and the regulated valve just for the purpose of going against SP. I know its stupid, but you can knock off MaxFlo, the new shocker, and im sure you can screw them over somehow with the valve. They should be charged the exact amount they stole from the paintball world