Woman killed by paintball marker tank

[sneakyhacker420]

Originally posted by AGD
Mounting the valve on a gun which is basically a two foot long lever and then diving into a bunker is an overall bad idea. Only ONE regulator on the market has a fail safe shut off if the reg breaks off. Three letters, starts with A, you can guess the rest.

AGD

/me gets up and hugs his 68/45 flatine


(and yes, i did just hug my tank)

[Rope a Dope]

Originally posted by AGD
Only ONE regulator on the market has a fail safe shut off if the reg breaks off. Three letters, starts with A, you can guess the rest.

AGD

Oooooh!!! So thats what the ball bearing does, huh?

I had my Flatline apart and I wanted to blast some air out of that hole cause I was cleaning it, I slowly and just barely opened the on/off, there was only about 700psi in the tank and that little ball bearing plugged the hole and only a tiny amount of air flowed through the hole on the sides.

Tom.. you seriously need to design the next mars lander for NASA, complete with robotic arm that can hold a Mag :)

[nerobro]

Originally posted by AGD
No other industry in the world uses inline threads the way we do because of this very problem. They all use some form of 90 degree fitting. Why we do I will not get into because I have vented enough in other threads today.

The vent hole in the tank threads is a paintball industry inovation not found elsewhere. There is no standard on it so people just drill them where ever. Some were drilled too close to the oring and caused a weak spot and the valve would just break off. Do you have one of those?

There are a lot of things that make me nervous in paintball. One reaons I avoid tanks with screw on regs is the failures I KNOW can happen. I've seen the top half of a PE reg unscrew from the bottom half. That leaves you with a 3000 or 4500psi rocket

I only used a screw in tank last friday becuase I don't have a SS adjustable reg available yet. :-) If you look at what's on my spyder, and my cocker. They both have SS regs.

I in fact do have a reg with some problems with the vent hole in the valve. The brass valve on my maxflow was severely overtorqued and streached out. I may still have it to show at the next AO meet. That tank is why I didn't have nitro at shatnerball.

An industry standard tank sealing system would be relitively easy to institute. The necesssary bits are cheap/easy to produce And the hardest bit woudl be convincing mfgs to be willing to make the threaded part on the reg longer.

I think all paintball valves should have that vent hole.... and the "sealing pin" that the flatline has...

Think, should be, and is, are all very different.

The flatline is the model for how n2 tanks should be made.

[FutureMagOwner]

another reason for me to buy a flat line!

EDIT: and curley i cant believe even you had the lack of brains to say something like that

[SeeK]

Originally posted by Dryden
Yes. I've got 7oz tanks going back 15 years that don't have the blow-off hole in them. The problem though is that this has been pretty standard for about 6 or 7 years now (the other accident mentioned occured 10 years ago). Which means, if the valve didn't have this fail safe, it should not have been in service, since the serviceable life had passed by DOT guidelines.

I think the field owner could be in for a battle if it's found that he filled a faulty, outdated tank.

The problem here, I think, isn't an issue with paintball at all - I don't think the game is in ANY danger by this one tragic occurance. The problem lies in the lack of a DOT regulation that allows consumers to purchase and install aftermarket valves and regulators themselves.

This is something that should only be done by qualified persons.

...

The real issue here is the lack of information available to new players. A warning label wouldn't solve the problem (God knows we don't need any more warning labels either), but clearly new players need some avenue for education.

Unless the valve was partially unscrewed there is no way for the filler to know if it was defective unless they tried to unscrew it by hand. Even this wouldn't be a good test since you probably won't be able to generate enough force against the remaining pressure.
A DOT reg won't really do much to solve the problem if you do it yourself.

Does anybody know the size of tank involved? Tanks under 2" in diameter are exempt from hydro testing.

[cledford]

It was a 20oz.

-Calvin

[robdamanii]

The marker was a Kingman Spyder Victor as well.

Sad story...I feel for them on this one. That airsmith is going to have his *** handed to him for the tank mishap.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by AGD
...Only ONE regulator on the market has a fail safe shut off if the reg breaks off...AGD

Might be inappropriate to make a funny here but here is a point we do not even bother to sell. And should.

"The Flatline high pressure air Paintball tank from AGD. Our tanks got balls!"

[Dryden]

Originally posted by SeeK
A DOT reg won't really do much to solve the problem if you do it yourself.

Right. I wasn't trying to suggest that there needs to be new laws passed or DOT regulations - it was more like a stream of consciousness rambling. My feeling though is that there is a problem with the concept of the do-it-yourself reg.

I think it's a great idea if company X wants to market their Flatline, Max-Flo, or whatever. My concern though is that the valve/reg assembly is available separate from the tank.

If accidents such as this occur again (and they will, given the level of knowledge of the people I'm seeing in the sport today), then the government will eventually step in.

The industry needs to tackle this problem before some agency does it for them.

Frankly, I'm terrified everytime I see these young kids doing self fills from their SCUBA gear.

[lamby]

First I would like to say that I feel for the family in this time of loss. The Kid must be in hell right now knowing that he killed his own mother. This is very sad and tragic.

Second, let this be an eye opener to every baller out there. Look out for each other on the field. As you know a full HPA tank is a bomb and has the power to lift a semi off the ground. It will sever limbs, decapitate, or blow through walls. (we had safety tapes that we had to watch in high school shop class that showed the power of a full oxigen tank being both exploded and having a reg sheared off. Having the reg sheared off was amazing, the tank went through a conctete wall that was 1 foot thick.)Now granted our tanks are smaller, but they have more pressure and have alot of stored energy.

Let this tragidy have a positive effect. teach others about safety and let us not have another tank related injury.

I am the most anal person in the world when it comes to HPA. I know what it can do and I respect that power.

Gets off soap box.

[Beemer]

Not If But When

If accidents such as this occur again (and they will, given the level of knowledge of the people I'm seeing in the sport today), then the government will eventually step in.

The industry needs to tackle this problem before some agency does it for them.

Frankly, I'm terrified everytime I see these young kids doing self fills from their SCUBA gear.

I am the most anal person in the world when it comes to HPA

Me to but for over all SAFETY.

Gets off soap box.

Get back on and make some room for me

Players just arent educated or informed enough.

Dont need to change Gog lenses after close direct hits
Play with cracked lenses is ok
Dont need to follow torque specs on regs
Hair triggers arent dangerous.
ROF and safety arent related
ASTM standards dont really mean much
Industry agreements are made then broken
Is my Gun disabled and safe when I leave the field?

Not if the crap will hit the fan but WHEN. Just a matter of time.

[Rope a Dope]

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/av?query=paintball&invocationType=avTab./aol/remote_form.jsp

[shartley]

Originally posted by Y-Grip
This could have been prevented if the kid with the marker had dry fired while unscrewing the tank. You don't just unscrew a tank off a marker with all that force inside of the system. At least of you are dry firing at the same time most of the gas will come out the barrel and not out of the ASA. There should have been enough Co2 pressure inside the tank to keep the valve from unscrewing itself.

[CoolHand]

I think the simpliest fix that people are missing here (other than the correct torque specs), is an On/Off Valve, in leau of the pin valve, or a pin valve with an On/Off ASA.

The tank valve type On/Off's work like champs, and I have them on every CO2 tank I own. Turn the knob, dry fire the marker until its degassed, disassemble.

Or, if you gotta use a pin valve (dunno why you would), you can use an On/Off ASA. Every one of them that I have owned/used has had a blowoff hole that opens up when you back the activation knob off enough, which vents the system prior to disassembly.

This safety debate is great, I am happy to see everyone paying attention to the hazards around us, and discussing ways to reduce the risk.

I just don't want people to overlook the proven solutions that are already out there.

[Jack & Coke]

- shooting the gun while unscewing the CO2 tank from your ASA is for saving your orings. Failing to shoot your gun while unscrewing the tank from the ASA will NOT turn your tank into a deadly rocket. Unscrewing your tank from it's valve will (if the vent hole is plugged).

- It doesn't matter if it was an on/off valve or a pin valve. If the tank is unscrewed from the valve (which it was), you are going to have the same dangerous problem (if the vent hole is plugged).

note: most of the time, this "gunk" which plugs up the vent hole is improperly applied locktite. It gets pooled into that spot as the the valve is re-installed back into the tank after an anti-syphon tube is installed.