Woman killed by paintball marker tank

[CoolHand]

You guys are totally missing the point.

The the tank unscrewed from the reg was because it was improperly torqued. The safety hole was plugged, so when it was done uscrewing, away it went. The reason that the kid was able to overcome the pressure in the tank, and twist it off the valve was due to the pressure being equal on both sides of the valve. What the fellow above was saying about dry firing the marker, and what I was saying about using On/Offs, greatly reduce the likelyhood of this ever happening, due to their ability to release the pressure in the mark side of the air system. This unbalances the forces on the valve, and allows you to unscrew a tank whos valve is only on hand tight, with no problems.

The pressure in the tank will keep the valve tight, unless you have some thing that is applying an equal or greater force to the valve to hold it stationary. When the marker is pressurized, its like having the valve in a vise, it provides leverage (in the form of the marker) to screw the tank off the valve. If you bleed the marker side of the air system before you try take anything apart, there is no force there to hold the valve stationary, so the pressure in the tank is applying the greater (by several orders of magnitude) force, and the tank/valve combo unscrews from the ASA.

Now, does that mean that the tank can never uncrew from the valve? Certainly not, but it does mean that very little force is need to remove the tank when the marker is degassed. If you have a hard time turning it, you know something is wrong, and you can check to see what it is.

I would suspect that the tank coming off the valve did not feel any different to that fellow, than unscrewing the tank/valve combo from a pressurized ASA, thus he didn't even know anything was wrong until it was WAY too late.

[Jack & Coke]

I wonder just how tight the valve is stuck in this ASA...

[Jack & Coke]

fyi

from:http://www.paintmagazine.com/cgi-bin...8&thread=11406

Glenn Palmer writes (Posted Wednesday, Feb 25, 2004 @ 08:41 PM)

Originally posted by GP@PPS


Just for those waiting to know what I saw during the inspection of the equipment.

The only thing that I saw wrong with any of the hardware was: There were no signs that the valve had been tightened sufficiently into the tank and there was no sign of chemical bonding materials having been used at the last installation of the valve. However, the Safety vent hole in valve neck was plugged with an unknown substance.

Another contributing factor was that the anti-siphon tube was installed in such a way as to require that the tank/valve be tightened fully into the ASA to put the tube in the appropriate position.

IMHO, the hardware itself is not the issue but the handling of it is.

Apparently, the complete rig was bought off of the internet. As is.

Sherriff's dept. investigation not yet complete and there has bee no word about who may have done the anti-siphon modifcation.

That's about all I have on it at this time.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by CoolHand
The the tank unscrewed from the reg was because it was improperly torqued.

Originally posted by CoolHand
The safety hole was plugged, so when it was done unscrewing, away it went.

As is that.

Originally posted by CoolHand
The reason that the kid was able to overcome the pressure in the tank, and twist it off the valve was due to the pressure being equal on both sides of the valve.

[Jack & Coke]

UPDATE...

From Glenn Palmer, who is helping with the investigation:

http://www.paintmagazine.com/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=8&thread=11406

Originally posted by GP@PPS on March 25, 2004

...I was interviewed again by local channel 13 news people today for a follow-up report (10 pm tonight) on what is being done. Their report is supposedly going out "on the wire" for national broadcast and it is being tied in to the CPSC report that was also published today.

I think the reporter is doing a good job in getting his info accurate and his focus seems to be in support of the husband of the victim that has been in DC lobbying for federal legislation to impose strick safety controls for our equipment. However, so far it seems that they are not coming down on Paintball equipment in general but trying to establish an awareness to the potential hazards of high pressure tanks.

Also, from conversation with the reporter, it appears that the young fellow that owned the equipment had in fact been doing some modifications on his own (including the anti-siphon) and not bought the equipment "as-is" over the internet, as he had originally claimed.

[FutureMagOwner]

and based on my local news paper the death toll has increased from 1 to 2 now...

[Beemer]

What will they do

And what will the C.P.S.C. say when they find out alot of these e markers dont meet A.S.T.M. Safety standards-ie bad bounce,1 shot 1 pull.

Anybody know what happened to Lawn Darts{Jarts} back in the 70s and why?

How come tanks are mounted by the reg and not the tank.Glad to have a Safe FlatLine with a Fail safe if the reg breaks.

Plastic air line is safer then S.S. I want some

[SlartyBartFast]

Re: What will they do

Originally posted by Beemer
Plastic air line is safer then S.S. I want some

What?!?

I seriously hope you were being sarcastic.

One of these days paintball risks being SERIOUSLY regulated.

Only in paintball are individual users allowed to fill their tanks. With SCUBA or Firefighting SCBA, a trained person does the fill and the fill is done inside and explosion-proof container.

[madmatt151]

Re: Re: What will they do

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast


What?!?

I seriously hope you were being sarcastic.

One of these days paintball risks being SERIOUSLY regulated.

Only in paintball are individual users allowed to fill their tanks. With SCUBA or Firefighting SCBA, a trained person does the fill and the fill is done inside and explosion-proof container.

I have to strongly agree with this statement. I can't tell you how scared I get everytime I go to Skirmish in PA and watch all the little 13 year olds filling thier own tanks, unsupervised! I mean there is this big button that you press and it fills your tank. I know there is probably some regulator that prevents mor than 4000 or so PSI going into your tank, but it still scares me. It is one of the reasons I don't go there very often. I am waitig for a similiar accident like this one to happen there one day, god forbid. There has to be rules regarding the filling of tanks etc. The local scuba shop by me can't believe that paintball fields do "fast" fills. Everytime my tank comes back and its hot because of the fast fill I wait to take it back from the guy who filled it. When he asks me why I am waiting I tell him just in case it is gonna explode, it can do it in his hands. That heat is NOT a good thing.

[SlartyBartFast]

Re: Re: Re: What will they do

Originally posted by madmatt151
I have to strongly agree with this statement. I can't tell you how scared I get everytime I go to Skirmish in PA and watch all the little 13 year olds filling thier own tanks, unsupervised!

Just look at the enclosures SCBA fills are done in.
And they fill them slow and cooled by water.

http://www.americanairworks.com/fill.html

I mean, paintballers are probably rougher on the equipment, inspect it less, hang the bottle by the regulator, and paintballers stand around doing fast fills right next to the tank!

If the pros use "fragmentation deflectors" it's because they've experienced a fragmentaion or two too many.

It's only a matter of time until some kid is turned into chutney while filling their tank.

At a minimum, the gun should be placed in a stand and the whole thing be covered by an enclosure while the tank is filling.

Holy !! I just read the whole of the page I linked to:

IMPORTANT!
During the last 5 years, approximately ten SCUBA, SCBA and DOT compressed air cylinders have exploded each year. 90% of these cylinders exploded while being refilled. ---- Bill High of PSI, Inc.

Percentage wise that's not a huge risk. But it IS happening.

Why ARE paintballers allowed to be so careless?