ATTN: Tom Kaye! No more Xmags?!?!

[11_Mile_TMaster]

Originally posted by FSU_Paintball
Perhaps I am out of line here... but if I were on the waiting list for an X-mag for over 9 months, and I heard that you were just going to not make any more... I would be inclined to say that AGD is giving the customer "the shaft." I would go so far as to say that unless SP had threatened to sue unless you IMMEDIATELY stopped making the X-mag, I would say that you were being ignorant of your customers' needs, and doing a great disservice to the excellent reputation of your company.

Most of all, if I had been waiting for an X-mag for 9 months and heard that I would not be getting one simply because you don't want to make them any more, I would be very, very pissed.

Am I out of line?

Unfortunately, It's a crappy Situation. One that has had Tom all 'iffy' about X-Mags to begin with. The bodies are made and the design is owned by AGD Europe, which is a sepereate corporate entity. A Seprate entity that no longer is going to make the bodies. It will be likely too expensive, and likely more trouble than it's worth to buy the design, Part it out, etc etc.

Now, I am about to open up the can of worms; Isn't AGDE Where they get the 4.5k Reg seats from? :) What's gonna happen with those?

[cockermongol]

Am I the only person here that thinks it is STUPID that AGDE even EXISTS! From my chair I think they are doing much more harm than good.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

And, for that matter, some of my thoughts:

250 E-Mags sounds like it's actually no number to sneeze at. Anyone with a recent E-Mag care to give a Serial number, so we have an idea how many exist?

The reason I bring that point up, is that AGD Likely wants to try to be rid of whatever inventory they have if the courts side with SP. Not selling 20 e-mags to customers because you never had the parts is a lot better than having 20 e-mags sitting in your shop because you can't sell the parts.It's not making a profit versus taking a large loss. These arent it'sy bitsy parts. We're talking about (when we get down into the nitty gritty,) A 400-500$ or so difference between an e-mag and RT Pro that are configured similarly. I say the difference because of the fact that, yes, some parts are interchangeable. Namely Mainbodys/Valves, and to a lesser extent, the Rails.

But, in our example, Let's say that AGD orders another run of, say 100 e-mags, and those 20 people get them. SP wins their case, and AGD as a result has to stop selling E-Mags. that still leaves 80 E-mag grip frames, 80 Batteries, 80 Battery Grips, 80 batteries, 80 Circuit boards, 80 solenoids, you get the idea. 20*500= 40,000$. I don't care if you're A college student, a working man, or the owner of a small-to-mid size business, 40,000$ is a lot of money to ---- away because you're not allowed to sell something. That's the salary of a pretty good engineer for a year, give or take.

It's simple economics. AGD Doesn't have the backing that, say, Empire does to risk large productions of markers like that.

Originally posted by cockermongol
Am I the only person here that thinks it is STUPID that AGDE even EXISTS! From my chair I think they are doing much more harm than good.

AGDE Is a franchise business. Crap happens with franchise businesses. They do things very Differently sometimes. Oftentimes to the point where you'll hit yourself in the head and ask, "What the heck are these people smoking?"

[Rope a Dope]

Yes don't boycott Smart Parts because if something doesn't work automatically overnight then it is not worth it to keep trying until you reach your goal.

You're all acting like a bunch of French soldiers, just drop your mag and put your hands in the air and surrender to Smart Parts.

The Automags.org logo should have more yellow in it.

You limp wrists can go ahead and bend over and take it with no DOW 33, I'll at least put up a fight such as educating uninformed players about what SP is doing and encouraging others to not support SP as well as severing all deals at the paintball shop I work at with SP (which has already happened and strictly because of their BS lawsuit).

Hope your Shocker 03's work out of the box.

[WARPED1]

ICD signed the agreement in the middle of last year, and since, prices on BK0's have dropped.................
boy, those SP lawsuits sure hurt!

[cockermongol]

Originally posted by WARPED1
ICD signed the agreement in the middle of last year, and since, prices on BK0's have dropped.................
boy, those SP lawsuits sure hurt!

ICD, by keeping the prices the same, is most definately losing money to stay competitive. Less profits = less money for R&D = less innovation (the kind of innovation we'll need to beat SP).

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by wimag


Werent you once the self proclaimed keeper or stalker of the kitty X-mag?
Anxiety getting to you lately or are you always a dick?

I'm not the stalked of anything...you all like to have your little cliques and your own little in jokes...I have my own..

Originally posted by gtrsi


DB you need a brutal *** beating! Not only do you have zero idea of what you are talking about consider for a moment your hateful tone on this board. If I was a mod here I would have bounced you eons ago.....

AGD will be in this biz as long as IT wants. BTW who is taking side bets? Morons on other message boards that post more than they play?

I am sorry but in any game the pawn never makes the smartest move, those are reserved for the king and queen.

When you begin to relize purpose you may then understand the meaning.......

I've been playing paintball since you were still peeing your pants so don't tell me you're the paintball equivalent of Peabody and Mr. Sherman all rolled into one.

As for who is taking sidebets...let's just say it's not a bunch of walk-on's shooting Spyders...just because I have conversations with people at other companies means I have to tell YOU the content of the talk..

And your little forture cookie sayings may work on high school girls but most people over the age of 18 don't need to watch Kung Fu to learn to say something cool to amaze everybody.

AGD was going to die eventually. No smart business men is going to support the failing portion of his business with the successful part. You change or you die. Pure and simple. You can not believe it all you want but when you're searching eBay one day because you can't find parts for your mag anymore because AGD's long gone just like Line SI, Paintball Inc and AirStar.

[Steelrat]

Well...it's time for me to have one of my world famous "I'm leaving" again sales...after lots of thought I've decided to take 6 months off of paintball...just got too much going on in my life and there are too many things I want to do with my life that I just don't have time for paintball

Good news! You don't have to care anymore! Go take your well deserved break, there will be plenty of time to revel in AGD's demise later.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Guys,
I am posting this due to the barage of phone calls, and e-mails that we have received, as a result of this thread.
Let me say very clearly that we, that's AGDE have not said that we will not, or do not want to make anymore X-Mag bodies. If AGD wanted to continue to place orders, then would be happy to fulfill them. From the beginning of this project, we offered to allow AGD to produce the bodies under license, there in the U.S., so that they would have more control, on supply & numbers.
We have a huge investment in the product, and have no intentions of stopping production, even if AGD discontinues the X-Mag. We have 2 CNC machines that we use to C&C the bodies in house, and we have always fulfilled AGD's orders.
We also did a lot of work on the ACE, and have only recently re-designed both the warp & centerfeed modules, and we are still looking to make further improvements.
I think that AGD has made this decision due to a number of factors, one of which is the very high exchange rate against our british pound at the moment, which is making the bodies expensive. However, I must reiterate, that we would have no objections to AGD producing them in the U.S., which would eliminate this problem.
We are just as sorry as you are that the X-Mag is being discontinued, as we have worked so hard over the last few years to get it to this stage.
We only designed & made the body in the first place to try to bring the E-mag up to the same level as the Angels etc,
and give it the C&C looks that everyone else was producing.
The modular design was included to help promote the warp, so you could connect up to the warp module without lots of ugly hose.
To dispell rumours, yes we have signed up with NPS, but this will not affect AGDE nor would it affect the production of X-Mag bodies if you guys still wanted them.
I think that Tom will agree that this decision is based on many factors, but the biggest is the current legal situation going on in paintball.

AGD edit: I agree with John here, the biggest factor driving this decision was weather or not to spend the money restocking inventory on an old product.

[Gadget]

John, thanks for the post, hopefully that should clear up any anti-AGDE feeling on here. Plus it sounds as though we'll still be able to get the X-Mag in Europe?

Seems to me that AGD have taken the decision to move out of the E-marker business in order to avoid any litigation over the SP patents.....if they only make mech markers, no-one can sue them?

Banner

[wimag]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy

As for who is taking sidebets...let's just say it's not a bunch of walk-on's shooting Spyders...just because I have conversations with people at other companies means I have to tell YOU the content of the talk..

Yeah riiiiiiiiight. What makes you so special to have these intimate one on ones with other people at other companies. The receptionist and shipping person dont count either as your source.

Dude you are so full of crap. For someone who took such great pride in thread after thread of "hey my x order is in" to "hey my x is at ano" to "hey i talked to a tech and he said my gun is the third from the top in the pic and I dub thee the boner gun" You are really getting your rocks off on AGD's situation.
If; and I doubt it will happen, that AGD folds you can nyahhh, nyaahhh, nyahhh all you want. Until then shut your hole.

[shartley]

[Top Secret]

Originally posted by cockermongol

ICD, by keeping the prices the same, is most definately losing money to stay competitive. Less profits = less money for R&D = less innovation (the kind of innovation we'll need to beat SP).

Actually ICD has a new gun in development called the Freestyle which is due out very shortly.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Top Secret


Actually ICD has a new gun in development called the Freestyle which is due out very shortly.

[manike]

Originally posted by cockermongol
Am I the only person here that thinks it is STUPID that AGDE even EXISTS! From my chair I think they are doing much more harm than good.

Yes, you are, and you don't know what you are talking about. Such an ignorant statement makes me very angry.

The amount that AGDE has done for the mag and AGD is insane, and much of their work goes by unsung or attributed to other parties.

So many products in the AGD range wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for John Sosta, Jackie Sosta and John Bonich.