Crown Point Barrel Discussion

[hitech]

First off, I don't like being used.

I bought the barrel because I want to try the stock barrel and figured it had to be worth $20. Would you be willing to put the stock mini mag barrels in the online store for $20?

As far as what you wrote. I think it went over what other advertisements say. However, not by much. They all make claims they can't support. They just usually don't say so much all at once. In addition, you have a reputation of backing up what you claim with testing.

One last thing. I have always wondered if ANY type of hole, port etc. does ANY good at all in a barrel (those crown points included)? My stroker (fixed barrel, no porting of any kind) is very accurate. So, do those thing work?

P.S., Yes, I still want the barrel. I didn't buy it thinking it was the end all be all of barrels. :)

[marc]

Law i dont know what you are talking about, Tom is and everything he makes is the best. And is AGD planing to release a barrel, I mean for Tom to do all of those expencive tests just to prove some one wrong, doesnt seem quite right

[Royal Assassin]

WOW, that was awsome... All I thought was if this is SO great, why's it only $20?? I've been taken on alot of misc. garbage in the paintball industry but this wasn't one of them. I think what Tom did was a great thing for alot of the young influental players that get caught up in all the hype.

Lesson: Don't beleive everything you read/hear.

Thanks for the lesson/entertainment.
Roayl Assassin

[Army]

If it helps any of you to feel better, we Mods were taken in at first, but then came to the conclusion that Tom was hanging around the steel door at the end of the hall during more military ball testing! (figured he took one too many to the head...)

[LaW]

heck I thought Tom had been tipping back 1 too many when he posted that :)

[hitech]

Originally posted by manike
Really? I wonder how many people ordered barrels or were seriously considering it, that wouldn't have if you had just mentioned that they were for sale.

I can't tell you how many, but I know of three. Myself and the two friends i suggested buy one (I told them, hey it's only $20 and will make a good "backup" barrel if nothing else).

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by manike
Really? I wonder how many people ordered barrels or were seriously considering it, that wouldn't have if you had just mentioned that they were for sale. Many people here hang on your every word. Most even apologised before contradicting you or pointing out where you contradicted yourself.

Many were hesitant or didn't want to contradict you at first.

If you'd have stuck with it a lot of people here would have followed through and bought the product and started hyping it elsewhere. Just because they want to believe you and that everything you do is the best. People were starting other threads and starting to say that their barrel is good, or that heck it's worth 20$. It goes to show you you could sell a product or an idea or hype here that wouldn't necessarily be bought elsewhere. It would be very complacent to think that the opinions here aren't to quite a large extent biased to you and your products.

manike

Trust has a lot to do with it too. In my 6 year customer relationship with AGD they have always been straightforward with me. So I have learned to trust them.

So I suspect alot of people would buy the barrel out of sheer trust for AGD and thier reputation for being honest.

For example:

If your best friend has been honest to you for 6 years you develop a high level of trust for him/her. In cases you don't even question what he says anymore. Because you know what he/she has done in the past has always been in your best intrest. So if he says, "hey bud I need some money my grandma is dying in the hospital" you wouldent even think twice.

Its a diffrent situation if you meet some stranger on the street and you start listening to what he says. You have NO idea what his motives are or how he acts. And he decides to sweet talk you into giving him some money. What are you gonna do if he says "hey bud I need some money my grandma is dying in the hospital." You are a lot less likely to buy into it.

[M-a-s-sDriver]

But seriously...

No, your post sounded like an obvious joke, not advertisement.
Some things that DID sound familiar were reasons WHY the barrel is better, such as airflow transition. The Freak system, which I own, is sold along a similiar premis of adjusting bore size to ball size for better consistancy.
This idea, along with the pitch of smooth transition from barrel to cruel world, may very well be true. Or untrue. They both make sense, but We The Public really have no way of knowing for sure unless we are willing to do some stringent, controlled testing. Even IF we tested them thouroughly, who is to say those variables were unrelated to accuracy, and the real solution isn't something like barrel length?
I have been in paintball now since 1986, and in various tournies (including NPPL) since 1995. I can't even begin to estimate how many cases of paintballs I have shot. I have owned lots of Cockers, Lots of Mags, a couple of Angels, Phantoms, and countless other guns. You would think I would know the EXACT reason my current gun is better than the rest.
I do not.
WE (I) buy things because of marketing, and hopefully my experience.
For instance, I have gotten a lot of flack for using aftermarket parts on my MAG, and most the people here love stock parts and have great luck with them.
My stock MAGS sucked. It took regulators, Z-valves, forgrip extenders, 2-finger triggers and ANS bolts to make it competitive with Angels. I don't know every reason why, but my MAG is a better gun than a Stock Mag. No question. It is more consistant (Palmer Stab?),has a lighter, shorter trigger (Z-valve?), and is VERY easy on paint(ANS Bolt?). Manufactures make claims. I buy on those claims, plus testimonials from players, like this forum. You have to make an educated choice.
How do I know for sure that the Intelliframe is better than my Benchmark? You Say it is, but is that the truth? Is it worth twice the amount as a Benchmark? Well, these people say it is, so I am going to buy one.
I realise I am going off topic a little here, but I want to illustrate a point you have made about your marketing.
It is this: AGD has a great reputation, and people will buy based on your reputation on building good products, and most of us believe because you do a lot of emperical testing, you know what is best.
Brent Jackson, PFB.

[bofh]

Originally posted by manike
Most even apologised before contradicting you or pointing out where you contradicted yourself.

It would be very complacent to think that the opinions here aren't to quite a large extent biased to you and your products.

manike

On the first point, if you're going to tell something that full of it, do it with a smile. Make them feel good about. My mom, well, she didn't teach me that, but I'm sure it's a good idea.

Second, The point to prove was that AO is NOT ALL ONE MIND. Not everyone agreed that Tom was right. A good chunk of people disagreed. I'd even guess that more than half diagreed.... So AO might not be a bad place for feedback (but.... you need 40 sets of data for a good info, don't cha know:) )

But this wasn't a very good test, Yes, Tom tried his best "Marketing Hat" tricks on us... but that's not the best way he could lead us on. If he were to present an idea like the superbolt, and used totally wrong logicial conclusions... Say making a AutoMag bolt out of lead and saying increased mass would slow the bolt opening, and the increased force of the air behind the bolt (to open the more mass-full bolt) would cause the metered airflow to be more consistant, (and we all have more "consistant = more accurate" burned in our brains) so it would reduce breaks and be more accurate... That would be a true test.

Tom,
I don't listen to much marketing, but I think you did a good job at it... And shown that you're really an engineer. :) Must marketing that I do see, is always consistant with itself. Some of your stuff contradicted itself. But otherwise, very passable good. Fooled a lot of people

[Butterfingers]

Tom I think BOTH of the crown point threads should be made classics as a refrence to teach people how easily they can be duped by highfalutin marketing tactics that most other paintball companies use.

[AGD]

The funny thing about the visual descriptions in the pitch were that I beilieved them to be true in the 80's. I was convinced and sold them with that story. We actually had a pretty hot barrel way back then. No one liked the ringing though....

AGD

[magmonkey]

there is the lesson I spoke of

[timebomb]

So...

Does this mean that the barrel isn't really the best in the world?!?!



Mike
PbNation.com Admeanistrator

[AngelBoy]

So... does the barrel work like he said or not???

[shartley]