Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

[TheAngryDrunkenRussian]

Is there any way that you can move the loader to the side of the maker and put one of those tippmann A-5 fore grips under the barrel I think that would be more comfortable.



It would be cool if some one made this in to a wood ball marker

[DSR75]

That actually wouldn't be difficult to do with a mag. Since everything in internal all you would have to do is mount it to a rifle stock. The hard part would be making a trigger mechanism. I will take a look at it and see what I can come up with.

[blitzmercenary]

PLEASE work a foregrip into that mag. my friend has a q loader (although he got smart and bought a halo w/ a cheetah board) and it makes the gun overly front heavy. not having a foregrip would kill the whole concept.

I cant sleep. Can you tell?

Okay, so here is an interesting starting point. I do NOT want the design to end here. I think it can be improved greatly, tho it is already an improvment over the Black Cell in my opinion. More mask clearance, smaller package, lower profile, etc.



Ugh. It makes me like the Q loader even more. I kinda dont want to, but... ugh. It might be a better choice rather than the warp feed. I am torn.

[famousgamer]

PLEASE work a foregrip into that mag. my friend has a q loader (although he got smart and bought a halo w/ a cheetah board) and it makes the gun overly front heavy. not having a foregrip would kill the whole concept.

Whoa. I never considered that. Thanks for the heads up. Also thanks craltal and you guys.

Since a paintball mask has to get behind, over and around a paintball marker, mask clearance is of paramount importance. I think the pictures speak for themselves. I have put my masked face up to a rifle stock, and disliked the fact I could not look over, or get my head over the stock without putting the butt down. You also can not look down a markers focal plane with a high stock. I want a shooter to be able to rest the stock on their chest, if need be, to see either way in certain situations. With a high stock this is impossible, unless the gun is being rested on your mask.

Therefore, I am not even going to bother designing a rifle stock. For every rifle style stock Special Ops makes, they sell another off set sight mount, or overly huge sight riser to compensate for the lack of mask clearance... and they are not honest about the fact that their stocks like that are primarily for looks, not function. They are gouging, and I dont like it. They sell marker setups for people to shoot in their backyard with no mask fine, and when they hit the feild they realize how useless a stock is without mask clearance.

This woodsy marker we are forging is all function, and sometimes looks have to be sacrificed. I am pretty stoked about the air-thru stock, and I am thinking that is our base stock design.

Speaking of function... I too am stuck on the Qloader vs warp feed debate. Having not used a warp myself, I am very curious about it. Does it make much noise? I personally dislike batteries, but I also dislike my QLoader getting rested on obsticles and potentially snapping off. I am also worried about the weight being at the front of the marker. I do not want holding this marker in a firing position for a long time to be a burden. A warp would move the weight right beside the grip, where the weight is central and balanced (if not a little offset to the side). Bottom line is: Warp feeds are ugly and use batteries, and that scares me. They could be the leg up tho.

[craltal]

Is there any way that you can move the loader to the side of the maker and put one of those tippmann A-5 fore grips under the barrel I think that would be more comfortable.



It would be cool if some one made this in to a wood ball marker

something along these lines



As for the warp question, you are looking at carrying 3-4 9V batteries, 2 in the loader and 1-2 in the warp. You have 2 separate and distinct motors running, so there is a good bit of noise

[DSR75]

The thing I have encountered with people using a warp and a q loader is that you either love them or hate them. That brings me to the conclusion that we need to develop a way to have either one. I don't see this being a big problem. I prefer having the front grip. I've hunted all my life and I am used to shooting a rifle BUT paintball is still different. With a fully loaded hopper, warp or q loader, the weight is more than a regular rifle (or atleast it seems that way). Plus it's distributed different. The front grip is a must. Plus it gives a place to mount a q loader.

[Severe]

Just an opinion on the Q-loader that might help you out. I've fired both Tippmann A5's and Classic mags with Qs on them. While the marker weight was more forward it was not such that it tipped.

The largest difference was that both had bottles slung on them via drop forwards and not via remote. With the bottle on the marker it was actually very balanced.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and hope you actually move forward with some of these designs. I personally like the top feed option per the Q-bow and Ion setup. The way the feed-hose exits the Q makes it a very smooth transition. Unless Q-loaders start offering a cap that has it come out the back, the path you will take to attach to a warp feed body without a 90 degree adapt. will be a big "C".

I would very much like to see a sling point incorporated in your hardware. Playing scenario with a mag and no sling makes for a very sore arm. :)

One thing you could do to make this more appealing to more mag owners is accommodate direct-feed and power-feed bodies.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

this real interesting i am looking forward to seeing a solution btw i put this post up in the spec ops forums as well. after some people give their input i will link it over here to the ao forums ahh screw it i'll do it now.

http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?act=ST&f=47&t=39728&st=0#entry444798

i also found a review of the longbow on the spec ops website plus i fond pics of the longbow with a ruler hopefully they would help you

http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?act=ST&f=35&t=31599&hl=longbow&st=15

[famousgamer]

Good reads. I love coming back to this thread and seeing more stuffs!

I am actually a professional wargames miniature sculptor (warhammer, reaper, etc.) and this is a great thing to do while waiting for my epoxy putty to dry! (takes two hours at a time)

I could actually sculpt a prototype as well, if need be, to send to the machinist. I am not sure if this will be needed however, but may help in finding a comfy shape in the first place. I could also mail you the sculpt DSR75, and you could carry it on if you like?

Okay, so I am leaning a lil more towards the Q now. No batteries (3-4 9V batteries, eep!) and a nice look make it contender.

Actually, this is really kinda shaping up to be a Black Cell Automag of sorts. We can still improve on mask clearance, and cleaning up all those hose lines tho. I think that giving it a shorter barrel and a little bit of a shorter distance in the stock mount may also improve on the design.

I will experiment making designs for vert feeds, as was suggested. It is a good idea. I was considering that people could just switch out entire frames to suit their feed method, but since there are low rise warp adapters (that can be used on Qloaders I think) it makes it possible to have a design VERY similar to the Black Cell, at a fraction of the price (hopefully), and less fuss.

At any rate, using the hugley popular Black Cell as a starting point isnt all that bad I suppose.

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

snap shooting with a stock? That's a lot of motion. I'd love to watch that. There are reasons that speedball guns are short, light, and not run remotely.

As for shooting POV, it's up to the individual shooter. Look at the pictures that were posted with the rifle/ shotgun shooters. With the exception of the drawing with the m-16, everyone of them could be wearing a paintball mask and still have enough clearance, not that we actually play that way. As for the FAMAS picture, you are failing to recognize that while there is a lot of "stuff" above the level of the stock, it still sits inline with the body of the gun and the barrel aiding in keeping the weapon steady. You also have the added benefit that a bullet actually travels in a straight line, for all intents and purposes at the ranges we deal with, while paintballs do not.

As for the rear holes stepping out, have you ever seen one? There are wings that extend after the holes towards the back, but the holes must be inline otherwise the RT sight rail wouldn't fit. I just brought it up as it would require less modification the the gun.

I give you kudos for the thoughts and am not trying to stifle your creativity, in fact I'm trying to help you think a bit more broadly. My ideas might not help, but at least I'm making you think a bit.

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly.

[/beating horse]

As for snap shooting with a stock, his designs are not that bad. I've been running a stock off the grip frame for years, and my setup is lighter than any standard speedball rig. I can snap shoot very quickly -- as fast or faster than a tank mounted to the marker rig. If you haven't tried it, you'll be surprised --- providing there is enough room for proper sight alignment (or sighting down the barrel).

The only limitation is that you do have the remote line to work with, and it doesn't interfere unless you attempt to switch from right to left side shooting.

Here's my versions using JCS products:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/HOMELANDEFENDER/DSCF0048.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/HOMELANDEFENDER/2004_0102PROCARBscout30008.jpg

HLD...

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

After doing some searching I found a picture of what it looks like with a properly executed firing position using a stock mounted low such as on my gear. If he mounts the thing low enough, it should be fine.





HLD...

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

Is there any way that you can move the loader to the side of the maker and put one of those tippmann A-5 fore grips under the barrel I think that would be more comfortable.



It would be cool if some one made this in to a wood ball marker

Are you sure you really want one???

http://www.extremesportsandhobbies.com/m14.html

HLD...

[LONEWOLFOO1]

now all we need now is a tac one warp frame i ask this question a while back when tom was still around i guess it was drop here is the post maybe if you chime in we can get it done

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131303

[famousgamer]

Whoa, nice gun and thanks for the research HOMELANDDEFENDER. I am thinking I am still drawing the stock too high up. Hmm. I will base some more drawings around that excellent firing pose.

Funny how I cant find ONE picture of a person sighting up a Longbow online. I dont even think it is possible with a paintball mask on to be honest. (without risers, offset doo dads, yadda yadda)

Anywho, check this out.



and not alot lower then the original Black Cell Ion

[famousgamer]

Clearly a human head wearing a paintball mask is not going to fit BEHIND the Longbow. It will fit BESIDE the longbow. Id rather get behind the marker personally, as depicted excellently in HOMELANDDEFENDER's picture.

That is a deadly marker too by the way. Hmm. Makes me wonder if I should take my design back a few notches, back to basics. Something a little uglier and a little more light, and in the end more effective.