Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

[famousgamer]

New triggerframe? Ugh. Now that looks tuff.

[Severe]

I think your concept of mask clearance is spot on. One of the reasons I'm able to use my Simmons scope so well is that I can move the marker across my front (left, center, and right) and still maintain sight picture. While the stock looks more traditional, I've never used one and I'm not sure I can retain the same shooting positions.

Here's a picture of me shooting from the side. I think this picture illustrates how the bottle becomes my stock and in combination with a nice drop forward and a slide on sight-rail I get very good eye alignment.



For reference, this is a classic, with a 12" J&J ceramic. sight-rail and Simmons 30mm Red-dot. It's a VERY small setup. I actually have a Q-loader system but I haven't set it up yet. I'm lazy!

By placing the Q-loader beneath the barrel the only thing I would have to change is my front hand position. The length of (or lack of) the drop forward allows shooters to adjust how far back or forward they'd want the marker to sit.

As for stock adaptors, I think the ones that connect to the rail and the trigger frame look great and offer, I think, much better durability.

[Troen]

you guys were onto something with the intigrated grip/q loader addaptor, with a classic valve, you couldnt sell those quick enough

[LONEWOLFOO1]

So it is agreed no matter what we design is should be based around spec ops stocks. but keep in mind you have a lot of guys who have tac ones and don't want to shell out extra money for a warp frame any solutions? agd should make a tac one warp feed body.

[famousgamer]

I agree we should focus on using spec ops stocks, as milling a gas thru might end up becoming more work and expense then just buying one pre-made. If a person were to mill their own stock, then we could just use the same port, or connection point to leave people with the option. So, thats settles that, unless anyone else has anything else to contribute on that topic?

Aslo, should we decide on the fact that we are indeed leaning towards the Qloader as opposed to the warp?

Also, excellent pic severe. That really shows the pose and level of comfort we wanna go for. I am also pretty stoked you are running a classic, and a J and J. Thats a nice tight, and inexpensive yet very effective setup. I would like that to be the starting point for our marker setup personally, cept with a 14 inch J and J. A least that is what I am going to be buying in the next lil while.

That classic rail is so easy to milt thru and design around. No matter how a person upgrades the concept rifle we are designing, I feel we should be basing it around the classic rail.

I will get back to the ops stocks and q loader grip later tonite. Im gonna watch the fights at the local ripper bar. My friends are gonna poo when I tell them how much fun I am having helping design a paintball marker.

[mjolnir117]

I really think that a qloader is a better base for the design that you are going for, it is much more streamline and goes better with the weighting for the marker

[famousgamer]

Kay. Lets break it down...

The AGD over the Black Cell Ion has:
- a narrow and shorter profile
- lower head position when firing, making for a smaller target
- warp feed right frame allows for a sleek shape, and no long Q loader tubes sticking out
- A longer more complete focal plane across the top of the marker for better intuative aiming and hip shooting
- No air macro lines messing up the bottom of the marker
- A tighter Q loader position, allowing a good look with a shorter barrel length
- a nice grip over the Q loader housing
- a safer and more durable Q loader setup
- Needs three peices to be milled to be a complete package (Q shroud, top shroud and stock adapter)

what it lacks is:
- a foregrip to take the weight off the Q loader (tho the tighter set up does this a little)
- without a vert feed, the marker HAS to be Q fed. No backup plans if Qloader breaks.
- more stuff that I am just not thinking of now

All in all, I like the mag more. Id WAY rather be playing with that mag as opposed to that Ion anyday. The lynchpin is the milling. How much would it be to get those three peices made, and how? If that peice falls into place, this marker becomes a reality.

I hope it does materialize, cuz I wanna play with one!

[famousgamer]

Actually, one could go powerfeed, and tilt the powerfeed down to be fed into the Q Loader tube that way. This is how it is usually done. All one has to do is get a sight mount, or riser, and perhaps a new adapter so the stock fits a little higher. The stock does look a little low when it isnt changed, tho it might still feel better lower.

And this one is in black, to show the difference.

Again, who knows what feels/fits better until a mock up is tried on for size. Anyone wanna get their Automag and cut some cardboard or wood and try these stocks and shapes out?

[famousgamer]

I can now clearly see why that JCS stock is so popular. It really does allow for that tight posture. As we can see, our stock does not suit this posture as well as a bottle does. In this pose, a bottle is the stock, and does a pretty dang good job of it.

I am sure the stock will work tho, just not in this tight firing position.... the problem is that this is one of the best firing positions in paintball. I am thinking that our design may want to lend more towards this style of firing position.

[famousgamer]

something like this would feel better. not nearly as cool lookin tho. comfort should come before looks if the two come to heads however.

maybe we wont have a problen with the higher stock after all, and wont have to worry about total mask clearance?

[famousgamer]

this real interesting i am looking forward to seeing a solution btw i put this post up in the spec ops forums as well. after some people give their input i will link it over here to the ao forums ahh screw it i'll do it now.

http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?act=ST&f=47&t=39728&st=0#entry444798

i also found a review of the longbow on the spec ops website plus i fond pics of the longbow with a ruler hopefully they would help you

http://forum.specialopspaintball.com...=longbow&st=15

NO ONE IS POSTING PICS! I wish they would. It would help clear up SO many questions I have about mask clearance. Any probbing people could do to bump that thread would be great. Maybe post some pics of this marker on that thread, and generate some more interest that way?

EDIT: Oops, just clicked the link and noticed that Lonewolf did an excellent job of this just recently. Thanks man.

[famousgamer]

for comparison purposes. I bet is we were to put the Longbow air thru on that ADG marker, with that mid level stock adapter, the size would be bang on. Ill try one tommorow.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

Keep this in mind that there is some hieght on the longbow shroud if you do have a tac one not a warp feed body all you need to order is the shroud kit. i order the whole kit and it should be here in a couple of days. but on thing for sure we should implement the spec ops air thru stock to keep parts cost down.

so order the stock only i think thats 80 bucks
and all we need to make is a adaper for it.
or order the jcs but i like the air thru stocks it does'nt expose the air line as much.

[Severe]

The one thing the scenario houses haven't figured out yet is there is no such thing as stock weld when it comes to paintball. Masks don't allow it. For those of you who aren't familiar with the term, when teaching shooting techniques, stick weld is the connection point between the shooters cheek/face and the stock that allows for weapon control and good sight picture/sight alignment.

I would hate to recommend re-inventing the wagon wheel but if the SpecOps stock was flipped it would allow for the same shoulder support while allowing the shooters mask more room behind the marker. The catch is, this would require a lower mounting point which shouldn't be a problem is you went with the style that connects to the rail and trigger frame.

For example:

[NinjaoftheNight79]

I just have a few quesitons. My first question is, with all of this stuff you are doing, where in the name of all holy are you going to put a remote hook-up? Also, how are you going to open the marker for fixes, cleaning, and repair. From the pictured I have seen, you guys have a lot of screws to worry about. Second off, why not just use a tank? I mean come on, you already have it, its cheap, its a bit heavy (but easy to get used to), and it gives perfect sight clearance. Also, do any of you understand the point of the Black Cell ION kit? I dont mean to get you all POed, but your missing the point. The ION kit is for much more that just a "sniper" role. Its trying to get more high end markers into woodsball/scenario types of play. People at Special Ops get upset because they cant put a stock on X marker, and now Special Ops is looking into a way to do it. I have no idea where any of you get that they dont have enough clearance. I own their A-5 SAW stock, and all I need for clearance is about an inch raise. The longbow and blackcell have plenty of clearance. And you talk about the responce issue of an X-Valve, and how you have to shoot fast for consistancy. If you read the (RT Pro/Tac-One) manual this isnt true. The best range of psi inputs is 750-850 psi. At high (850 psi) input, it is more consistant to shoot fast. This is for faster shooters, and would be great for speedball. At medium (800 psi input) input, its about in the middle, and you can shoot very consistantly at both slow shots and fast shots. It describes it as "for the player who combines rapid firing with an occasional sniper shot". At low (750 psi) inputs, your first shots are more consistant each time. This is said to"benefit a sniper with consistent slow shots". So now if you figure this, you could just pop a regulater on it for about $70. This would let you adjust the velocity down to 750 psi. Or you could just buy an old Classic Valve w/ a lvl 7 bolt. If you got the classic valve, you could even get a 12 gram adapter, and run the marker off of 12 grams. Then, you wouldn't even need a heavy tank or a remote.