Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

i was looking around on the spec ops forum and somebody put this on their longbow my only problem is if i had to fire from my left would'nt i be in trouble. (face hitting shroud from left side) but a great effort from the guy

RIDDICK

There is a seperate piece that attaches to the stock that allows it to attach to the shroud with four little retractible domes. So, instead of the longbow stock right now, I have a dogleg stock on which helps with all of your complaints of the length and the line of sight. This is how mine it looks right now

[DSR75]

Tripp,
We are wanting to get away from the raised sight rails. The lower the profile the better.

[famousgamer]

ve seen that topic over at AO and i think they are taking it too far....

-i dont think they hav figured out that posture is different with a "tactical" gun over a normal marker.
-in some drawings they have taken the stock and mounted it all the way down where a bottle would be.

talk to protocoach (or any other longbow/q-bow owner)... they all say that they have no problem with siting. like i said, i think they have taken it a bit too far over at AO.

from the Spec Ops boards.

I am very willing to admit I have gone too far once I see a dozen or more pictures of people sighting up their longbows with ease. Hundreds of people own a longbow, and I am pretty sure that after shelling out the cash to buy a Longbow some may have enough personal wealth to own and operate a digital camera.

The stock is in the wrong spot on the Longbow, in my opinion. Other people have their opinions too, and thats fine. I am man enought to admit when I am wrong, when I am proven wrong. Mind you, there are alot of other problems with the Longbow besides the stock, but they are so obvious it seems silly to debate them.

I love the idea of the Longbow, and really want to see that idea brought to life. I also love the notion of the paintball sniper. Thats right, I said it. The S word. I personally refer to snipers in paintball as stalkers, as I see it as a little more fitting. I just want a great stalker marker that actually works to improve a stalkers game, not make it more challenging. The Longbow specializes in the latter.

There aint no disclaimer saying a Longbow operator needs to buy a VForce profiler mask to look through a sight mounted on the top picatinny, and there is no disclaimer saying that they will also need to purchase additional sight risers in order to see through a red dot. That seems unfair to me, and I feel very justified in sharing that to others that do not have that information as of yet.

Our posts are a great way to vent, and problem solve in light of the Longbow debaucle. We have done some serious good here, and I personally feel much more educated as a result of reading peoples opinions here. I think that is the Special Ops gurus were to have read this thread they would realize they cant drop the ball, or people will notice. That does everyone a huge favor in the end.

Anyways, back to the designing...

[famousgamer]

That dogleg stock not only "doglegs" around the head, but also drops down a little, putting the butt of the stock in the proper place it seems. Seems like the best Longbow stock to me. Should have been standard on every one. True about the shooting switch position tho Lonewolf.

If the stock was lower, and nice and tight, one could rest the stock on the chest, or either shoulder... even pivot the marker on whatever spot on the body, kinda like stock snap shooting. That would be the most useful stock in my opinion.

[borph]

Thanks, I appreciate your compliments! The genuine AGD back bottle adapter really did the trick. Wish they'd made more of those!

Had to order the CMS Upgrade to mount the Q on the grip frame. It should come standard for what they charge! Even so, it makes the balance almost perfect. Sure beats the weight of four 9v batteries running two motorized gizmos dangled off to one side! (no offense AGD)

Pro-Team makes a new one: http://www.proteamdirect.com/proteam/bgfolforgrip.html
Mine is their original Armson folding foregrip.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

What a great setup Borph. Wow. I never figured you could get so much clearance by mounting the asa at the rear like that and use an air thru. That z frame is nice too. The sight rail is the perfect height, and I bet you cant even feel the Q loader weight with it so central like that. I even like the extended foregrip. Well done.

I am personally going to be picking up my own marker to start modding soon. I am very close to deciding the initial setup, and wanted to clear everything with you guys first. Ill post later tonight with my wish list.

[Severe]

I don't necessarily think that raise scope rails are bad thing. I personally like that my scope is 2-3 inches above my barrel. That way I'm not looking over, around or through my barrel when attempting long range shots.

Scope rails really don't impact the markers ability to be low profile since anything below your eyes is fine. I think the low profile mostly comes from moving away from a traditional hopper to a Warp or Qloader.

Whats so appealing about this thread are the designs where the Qloader mount is integrated into some sort of sleeve giving the marker a very unified look. The stock options are always going to be subject to player preferences on shooting. I personally will keep my tank on my marker.

I think it would be great if some of these designs evolved in to real options that people could buy. But to appeal to more players I think some effort should be put on supporting mag owners with power-feed and direct-feed bodies also. The more versatile the add-on is, the more potential users.

The real negative of the Q/Longbow is the price. Beat that by a substantial margin and you'll see players more willing to use your offerings.

Anyway, as far as materials, has anyone played with resin casting? It's fairly inexpensives, can be very durable depending on the mixture and could possibly be used for a very quick turn around time on making some of the components discussed here.

[famousgamer]

It is interesting you should mention resin casting. This is a company I have sculpted for (I did most of the Demon of Rage, among several other minis on the market), ULTRAFORGE LINK ,and these miniatures were all cast in resin.

Resin casting is actually quite possible, and is as durable as plastic or metal if done the right way. It would also be pricey, but not overly pricey. I could also hand sculpt the original, as I sculpt often.

I would suggest getting a pro company to handle the mold making and reproduction (pouring) tho. I can do mold making for miniatures, but for ther bigger stuff there is gear that helps that I dont have. I know lots of people in the industry, and they would be more than willing to help at a price.

I'll order my marker from agd and my Q Loader soon. After I get these things I will start sculpting. If there were people that wanted to buy these shells to compensate for the cost of making them, it would work out nice. I am not sure about the legalities however, and would have to investigate if this is possible to even market. In regards to most things, you cannot sculpt anything to interact directly with it without having rights. Anyone know anything about this?

Of course, everyone who has contributed to this post and is interested in a shell, if they get made, would receive them at cost, or wholesale. Cost of materials basicly.

I will also contact the folks at Q Loader and let them know about the project. Maybe they can throw in a Q Loader at cost to get it going, for the benifit of all?

[Severe]

Contacting Q-loader directly is an excellent choice. One of the scenario teams I frequently play with is sponsored by them and the captain has mentioned that Q-loader would like to see a Q specific marker. I think if you were to approach this the right way they may show some serious interest in this. Or it could be my wishful thinking!

If they were able to offer a sleeve mount similar to this drawing you did:



That could be very beneficial to both AGD and Q-loader. Something that mounted via slide on or possible screwed to the frame would allow for almost ANY body style. This would make it appeal to pretty much any mag owner.

When you get your Q-loader, be sure to pick up the Custom Mounting Socket. This will allow you to mount the Q as close to the trigger frame as you like. It also lets you have the feed tube from the Q-loader exit any side you wish.

**edit**
It just dawned on me that the above concept AGD/Q-loader marker looks like what could possibly be the next gen FN303.

[famousgamer]

Well, housing the Q Loader to the front via a cool looking/feeling shroud is very doable. The trigger frame and stock would be a little trickier.

Does the actual trigger connect to the trigger frame which connects to the marker, or simply connect to the marker? I know nothing about the trigger system yet, as I dont have one in front of me yet. I could just cut the carbon fiber grip frame and add to it, but would rather make a single unit that just bolts on like the trigger/grip frame. Maybe a technical drawing would help.

As far as a Q specific marker, I dont know what other marker would be more Q specific. I will see if the folks at Q dig it. A Q specific marker has to be the Automag. It is simply the best choice for a marker platform, bar none.

[famousgamer]

Wow. It really is like an fn303. Riot controllers are just envious of paintballers :)

[Severe]

The trigger is housed in the trigger frame. It's free floating on a single axis with a cross block safetly. The sear is mounted in the rail by either a bushing (classic rail) or sear pin (RT Pro and up rail). The sear contacts the trigger via a sear rod that passes horizontally through the trigger frame and coming out directly behind the trigger/trigger shoe. Hopefully that description will help a little. For a visual representation, check out the exploded diagrams at www.airgun.com in the support section.

It would be possible to have your stock mount on the existing fiber single-trigger frame by acting like slide on grips and also anchoring to the rail below the valve. Again, resin casting or some sort of vaccuum forming could do this fairly easily I'd imagine.

[borph]

Does the actual trigger connect to the trigger frame which connects to the marker, or simply connect to the marker? I know nothing about the trigger system yet, as I dont have one in front of me yet. I could just cut the carbon fiber grip frame and add to it, but would rather make a single unit that just bolts on like the trigger/grip frame. Maybe a technical drawing would help.

The grip frame hinges the trigger, which pushes the trigger rod, which rocks the sear, which releases the bolt and cycles the on/off valve.

here ya go

http://www.airgun.com/Images/rtblowup.pdf

[famousgamer]

Sweet. As an afterthought I was thinking that making a new grip would probably throw off intelliframe users. Some people would not want to go back to a single trigger. It would be nice to appeal to the broadest range possible.

Doing the front part is easy. In this drawing it shows a super easy concept for a two part shroud. This could be made of anything, as it does not have anything really mounted to it at all. It kind of floats there. The sight is mounted on an aftermarker automag sight rail (there ae a few to choose from, i like the cool low black one) and there is still room to screw in the foregrip.



Now, the only issue with this is the foregrip. The Q loader cant be mounted to it, as it is removable. Can the grip be cut down, or is there an easier/cheaper alternative? I guess one could use the special mounting stuff from Q loader, but would that still allow for the foregrip to be installed if one wanted? Any pics of how that Q loader attaches to the marker rail while still allowing the foregrip, while not being directly attached to the foregrip would be nice.

The rear of the marker will be trickier. I am leaning towards the special ops adapter again, as it would be used with any trigger frame, so long as it was a classic rail. I still dont know if the RT rail can be mounted from. Either way, anyone could buy a classic rail, as they are fairly cheap.

[famousgamer]

It would be a real cool thing too if Q loader unveiled a new BLACK Q pod to go with something like this! Man, that would be savage.

[famousgamer]

Just as an idea for the stock... what about this?



By not going air thru, what advantages do we have?

- You could shoot with either hand, and snapshoot if the stock rested and pivoted on the chest (like speedballers do with just the bottle as a stock).

-The weight of the tank would also balance out the weight of the Q Loader when it is full of paint, making the trigger frame the balance point.

- There would be no hose to snag.

- dont need to buy a remote line, or a vest or pouch to carry the bottle in.

Cuz really, the stock is kinda exactly where the tank is anyways on most of the drawings. It is fairly optimal placement, and I am not sure if it really needs to be replaced by going remote? Maybe remote is the bomb and it will be way better than a bottle on the marker? I personally have no experience with going remote, so I am not the expert here by far. Any input here would be killer.