I am wondering if it would be practical to get a backspin effect (like you would get with a Tippman flatline or a BT apex) by sticking a short piece of foam tape inside the tip of your barrel? It would probably take some time to "dial in" how much tape to use and where to put it. It would also likely be dependant on the size paintball you use and the length of the barrel , and about a billion other factors. It is just an idea that has been tripping around in my head for a couple of weeks now and would like some opinions before I waste a case of paint testing somthing that could turn out to be a waste of time.
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It can work, but you'll likely need to mill where you put it on the end of your barrel, and probably wouldn't be worth it.Originally posted by RIPspookyIl n'y a point de sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont de l'esprit. -
it can work, and i beleive the tap thing has been tried before... with many broken balls and hours to find a combo that worked.
essentially its Galactic Z body from a different perspective. The original z-body had a nubbin in the body which could be dialed down to reach the desired effect. Large bore barrel was a much needed element.
The nubbin dialed down like a ramp so it was semi easy on the paintballs. Where as a peice of foam tape may provide a impeding perpendicular blockage which could encourage ball breaks.
Weighing the time/effort/resources/frustration it may be more worthwhile to pick up an old galactic z-body and a lapco bigshot (.697?) barrel... then you can dial in your spin. We have shot around cover/corners and received some nice decent accurate distance with ours...
If you enjoy the tinkering aspect.. more power to ya and as long as your having fun.. coolio;
it could be an interesting study.Comment
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What if you were to have the ball detent on the top? Would'nt that make the ball spin backwards while it is going down the barrel?Comment
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That wouldn't work, because a detent wouldn't cause enough friction on the ball.Il n'y a point de sots si incommodes que ceux qui ont de l'esprit.Comment
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I was wondering the same thing the other day, except I was considering using a thin strip of gaffer's tape along the inside top of the barrel. Might work, might not. Probably throw your consistency to crap if you didn't do it just right, though.Comment
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Why??
NO,I don't think it will be worth the time wasted,Get a BT apex.
Tony
:headbang: Stony :headbang: undefinedComment
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Even if you had the means to rip up a few barrels, try a few materials and dial in the performance, imagine the consequence of a ball break? Paint soaks into you tape, foam, whatever; your day now sucks.
Having owned a flatlined 98 custom a while back, I have this to add:
It worked well test firing, impressing friends before a game, but when actually playing, balls would hook wildly, hitting everything but your opponent.
If you're on AO, you know enough to have a consistent marker, so stop looking for that extra edge because next thing you know, you are going to be talking about rifling barrels, low pressure being better than high pressure, open bolt being better than closed bolt, and getting shot out every game because you didn't take time to improve your playing.
Good ideas, but do we really need it?Comment
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People seem to forget that backspin systems were popular for a time in the mid 90s.
CooperT, for example, had backspin systems for all the popular guns (ie Cockers, Spyders, VMs, etc) by using a custom bolt. Automags had the GalaticZ system.
But they all fell out of favor because of the basic problem inherent to all backspin system:
Paint sensitive.
Then years later, Tippmann "re-discovered" them, and put out the flatline, and Apex (via Ben). Same problems- Paint sensitive.
In order for it to work, you need a very specific size of paint, which causes problems at FPO events, and fields. Likewise, because of seem orientation, accuracy is decreased, meaning EFFECTIVE range is decreased, even though actual maximum range might be increased.
In the end, its lots and lots of work for a novelty that has very little use.
nickComment
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I thought of something similar a while back, why not sandblast the inside of the top half of a barrel? It's something that i have been thinking about. I know it would never work but still fun to think of the possibilities in a perfect situation without things like paint to barrel match and the amount of spin.Last edited by michbich; 03-24-2008, 08:23 PM.Comment
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There were some prototypes like that in the early 90s.
Both "rough" upper part, or even a chopped lower part to induce a spin. Bob Long even had a "backspin" barrel back in 1993 with a variation on that idea.
The reason you don't still see those ideas today is many were patented, and most were failures.
The GalaticZ came from an idea often seen in airsoft. Airsoft has been using "skid plates", often called "Hop-ups" since the beginning. So again, nothing really knew.
The CooperT bolts were nice in that you could use any barrel you wanted, as long as the paint was undersized.
You didn't have the problems associated with the Flatline/Apex in that the Flatline only worked with certain guns, and the Apex could not be effectively aimed.
The apex is also a problem because you change change the FPS by adjusting the apex, which technically makes it illegal, though not usually enforced since its not all that useful to begin with..
The CooperT bolts were originally only made for stacked tube guns, since it required making a special groove into the base of the bolt. I was however able to make one for my inline gun seen below:
Basically I plugged the hole, and then drilled a channel below it to create the backspin. Works pretty good, depending on the paint.
This might work on the automag, though automags have fairly complex bolts. Not exact sure how that would work without some complex fabricationComment
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Unless heavily modified, a groove like that wouldn't work on a mag bolt since it rotates freely.Comment
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On a related tangent: why are adjustable "hop-ups" used so frequently in airsoft but mostly regarded as a useless gimmick in paintball? Presumably shot precision is just as important to airsoft players as to paintballers - is the magnus effect more reliable when applied to their projectiles rather than ours, was it marketed more successfully to airsofters, or what?Comment
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Because TPG Airsoft uses SOLID PLASTIC BB's... not GELATIN SHELLED GLOBS O GOO...
And because the BB's are HARD they can get pressed against without breaking... PLUS they are DRY and not coated in a thin film of oil to keep em from getting to dried out and since they are solid you don't have to worry about the FILL not spinning with the shell... and vice versa.
I'm thinking those are the main reasons...
DMComment
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The short answer is seams, and OD.Originally posted by ThePixelGuru
The magnus itself is generated largely by the turbulence created from the seam has it travels through the air. Unfortunetly, the seam orientation effects how much turbulence can be created.
And you can control the seam orientation. You can see this when using a CooperT, or Flatline by dropping the paintballs into the the breech with the seam axis in different positions. You end up with the ball having different trajectories.
Plus, the orientation itself will change as the ball travels, and has a very random effect on its trajectory. The end result is accuracy is diminished. That simple fact really cripples the backspin systems, since they try to market them as "sniper tools", when in fact they shorten your effective range.
Airsoft does not have that problem as the airsoft pallets are fairly uniform, combined with a smaller surface area. The amount of magnus is thus more consistent.
The other paintball problem is "OD". There is no standard size "68" paintball. Sizes range from .680 to .694. Barrels likewise also vary even to a greater degree. This is a problem since backspin systems require a VERY SPECIFIC OD/ID variance. Generally, you need the barrel to be .04 larger then the ball. So small and it will effect the spin speed, and create breaks. TOo large, and effeciency is unacceptable.
Airsoft, though, is very standardized, and is not an issue.
I do actually love backspin systems though, despite what I said above. Beyond the obvious problems: Terrible accuracy, and breaks paint- It does have one very useful benefit: Flat trajectory. If I'm ever playing any sorta of "village" or "urban" fields. The flat trajectory allows me to shoot through a series of windows, or holes that no other player can shoot back from.
nickComment
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