How To Put An Ego Frame On A Mag

[p8ntbal4me]

I'm not sure about the star frames.

I used an 05 star frame for mine and it worked great.

~ P8nt

[Evil1]

Sorry for dragging this up. Havent posted in a while but this is cool!

[latches109]

thanks! I haven't been on AO in a long time either. where's all the pictures?

[braveheart2592]

Hey, I'm considering doing this project also, but I have one issue. Why is it necessary to put in a noid and pneumatic actuator into the grip frame? Couldn't it be possible to simply put an electromagnetic sear tripper straight into the board so it trips the sear. I had this old one from my PMI Piranha, and I thought i could use it...



The 9 Volt is there for size comparison. I realize that I would need to mill it down a bit. Would it still work?

[roxcreek]

yeah that setup would still work except the battery will not last nearly as long. In an ego-mag, the only job that the electromechanical solenoid has is to change the path of the air. That air is what moves the sear, instead of the direct battery power.

The type of setup you're exploring, with the direct sear trip from the solenoid, is the same type as the spyder-mag, e-mag, and the discontinued Devil Mag (which has been reingineered in different forms, but still maintains the same principles)

It all depends on how much battery life you want outta your gun. Unfortunately, there have been known flaws to the pneumatic setup, involving ball breakages. I think there is a thread on this forum in the Deep Blue section that goes into more detail on the pneu-mag ball break problem.

[braveheart2592]

Like how long would the battery last? Would it be something managable like my Proto SLG? It has a sear tripper almost exactly like the one I might use, and it isn't all that bad on batteries. I guess to me it seems a bit more reliable than having to route air through an lpr then into a noid that can break and leak then into an actuator that could short stroke...

[p8ntbal4me]

Hey, I'm considering doing this project also, but I have one issue. Why is it necessary to put in a noid and pneumatic actuator into the grip frame? Couldn't it be possible to simply put an electromagnetic sear tripper straight into the board so it trips the sear. I had this old one from my PMI Piranha, and I thought i could use it...
The 9 Volt is there for size comparison. I realize that I would need to mill it down a bit. Would it still work?

Its not a matter of can it work,.. cause Im sure with some time and some money you can find someone to make anything work.

If I was looking at this for you,.. I would say no for a few key reasons.

1. The layout inside the Ego frame doesnot permit for a solid mounting solution. And I mean that in almost every case you can think of. You need to mill obviously, but you also need to make a mount for the bottom of the solenoid and the tention screws. There simply isnt alotof "meat" there to do a whole lot right from the get go.

2. The Ego board has a MUCH higher profile than you can work with. From the center of your solenoid, you need to figure the radius and subtract that from the bottom limit of the sear arm. This point gives you the MINIMUM solenoid clearance. Then (as stated above) you need to add in the space for the bracket. Your solenoid isnt as large in diameter as the ones I have,.. but its close enough to say its "not possible"

3. The upper section of the Ego board where (on a E1/E2 board) the capacitor does/would be mounted limits the drilling/mounting place you can put a bracket for holding the solenoid.

I see completely what your asking,... but in my opinion,... its not really possible.

~ P8nt

[roxcreek]

Like how long would the battery last? Would it be something managable like my Proto SLG? It has a sear tripper almost exactly like the one I might use, and it isn't all that bad on batteries. I guess to me it seems a bit more reliable than having to route air through an lpr then into a noid that can break and leak then into an actuator that could short stroke...

Yeah, the slg is a sear tripper, I don't know how much more efficent it's electro-sol is, if any more efficent. they might even be the same, only the slg might have a larger sear, that would make it easier for the solenoid to move the sear. That's just a guess though.

http://www.xwings.wz.cz/clanky/obr/protoslg/proto_slg_animation.gif

[roxcreek]

if you decide to just use the electromech solenoid for your mag you should go looking for the spydermag threads. With this thread they're going into a completely different setup without a e-mech sol in it. The thing p8nt said is only applying to your setup in an ego frame. If you had a spare spyder frame (with a board, switch and sol) then you'd be good to go. The reason that the actuator, pneu-sol and lpr are needed is so they can still have the functions of the ego board.

[braveheart2592]

Its not a matter of can it work,.. cause Im sure with some time and some money you can find someone to make anything work.

If I was looking at this for you,.. I would say no for a few key reasons.

1. The layout inside the Ego frame doesnot permit for a solid mounting solution. And I mean that in almost every case you can think of. You need to mill obviously, but you also need to make a mount for the bottom of the solenoid and the tention screws. There simply isnt alotof "meat" there to do a whole lot right from the get go.

2. The Ego board has a MUCH higher profile than you can work with. From the center of your solenoid, you need to figure the radius and subtract that from the bottom limit of the sear arm. This point gives you the MINIMUM solenoid clearance. Then (as stated above) you need to add in the space for the bracket. Your solenoid isnt as large in diameter as the ones I have,.. but its close enough to say its "not possible"

3. The upper section of the Ego board where (on a E1/E2 board) the capacitor does/would be mounted limits the drilling/mounting place you can put a bracket for holding the solenoid.

I see completely what your asking,... but in my opinion,... its not really possible.

~ P8nt

Then how can you fit in a noid AND the pneumatic actuator?

[braveheart2592]

And that's the reason I'm on this forum instead of the spyder-mag forums, I want the abilities of the STAR frame, not a crappy spyder frame.

[p8ntbal4me]

Then how can you fit in a noid AND the pneumatic actuator?

I will explain:

When you do either mod you need to do a few things in order to see if the frame is a good candidate for what you wish to accomplish. Here is how I do it so I know right away what can and can not be used for a conversion.

1) Get all your parts FIRST! You need to get the actual rail that you plan to use and outfit it with a sear pin and sear. Having ALL the parts BEFORE you start is key. You should have the body and all the mounting screws as well. You do not need the valve system yet,.. but its a plus.

2) Measure, Measure, Measure! Assemble your rail and body together to form a loose fit. This will give you a rough idea on how things are going to line up. You NEED the body installed to find the "sear rest limit point" (thats what I call it because I cant find an actual name for it) in later steps.

3) Check the possible frame for the front screw and rear screw hole lineup. This is the step where most problems later on come from. The "sear rest limit point" is DIRECTLY RELATED to these 2 holes. You should ALWAYS take yout measurements from these 2 as they MUST line up with all ADG spec parts to work with AGD markers. Working from the front of a frame or a trigger pin hole is not a wise idea. They dont hold the same tolerances (I will explain that some more in detail later)

4) What actuator will you use? This is the point where you check out how much "play" you have to do which mod. The MPA-3 ram (the one Cyberave68 sells) is 1" long (un-cut). So you would take the distance from where you would like to drill your front mount screw hole (the center), measure to the back of the frame you want to use, and find the "sear rest limit point". The you would SUBTRACT 1" for the MPA-3 ram, then SUBTRACT .125" for pre stroke travel (MPA-3 has a much higher force when the sear isnt resting agains the ram/piston. This number is not made up, taken from Clippards Home Page). Lastly,... you need to SUBTRACT the amount of space needed for a barb on the back of the MPA-3.

5) Draw lines. You need to mark out the REAR lines of where the MPA-3 falls. Do you have enough room to fit it in, or do you need to mill some material out? Is the actuator going to hit the trigger in the frame you chose? The width is not important right now, you only need to know if this small piece will fit. You always need to be installing the parts and re-fitting EVERYTHING as it would work when your done. Skipping these measurement steps can be the reason for a working or failing mod.

6) Check front mount screw hole proposed location for ASA/vertical grip mount space. In the event you use a frame that has a much larger trigger guard design such as the EGO or Angel, you may have to mill or shift your frame to the rear of the rail to leave enough space for the ASA/fore grip. You need about 0.666" of space betwen the center of the front mount screw hole and the front of your frame.

7) Check the depth of your actuator. You need to remember that the sear does come down into the trigger frame some when it moves, so plan that into your calculations. This is why you need the body mounted for measuring. With the body mounted, your sear will only move as far as it can,.. thus you should be able to measure the radius of your actuator and know if it sits low enough. The radius of an MPA-3 is 0.281". If you mount the MPA-3 horizontal (meaning that whatever plane your rail is at, the MPA-3 SHOULD be mounted parallel to it) then you are safe. The actuator should hit the center of your sear at the bottom. Its important to mount it this way because of the amount of force needed is far less to move the on/off pin than it would be as a higher contact point or at an angle facing down.

8) Cosmetics. Now that you have all the hard stuff out of the way, how do you want this frame to look? I say this last because most guys look at the way things will be when its done BEFORE they can really say "this whole design will work AND look good when Im done". For me, this is how you can really make a project expensive REALLY fast! Knowing what you have to work with before you do it is great. If you were using a pancake solenoid to do this mod and you find out you cant get the front fore grip you want to use in with the frame because the location you have to drill a hole for the front mount screw wont work with the "sear rest limit point" BEFORE you drill anything,.. is kinda nice. :)

Most of the guys that have done this kind of mod before already do these things (maybe in a different order) so they will know right away where Im comming from. Those of you that want to TRY your hand at it,... go for it! Its not like its hard,... you just cant rush anything you do. If you dont have all the tools (drill bits, a means to mill or cut things), parts, etc,... you need to hold off till you get them.

~ P8nt

[roxcreek]

good job p8nt, nice walk through

[Dark Side]

I will explain:

When you do either mod you need to do a few things in order to see if the frame is a good candidate for what you wish to accomplish. Here is how I do it so I know right away what can and can not be used for a conversion.

1) Get all your parts FIRST! You need to get the actual rail that you plan to use and outfit it with a sear pin and sear. Having ALL the parts BEFORE you start is key. You should have the body and all the mounting screws as well. You do not need the valve system yet,.. but its a plus.

2) Measure, Measure, Measure! Assemble your rail and body together to form a loose fit. This will give you a rough idea on how things are going to line up. You NEED the body installed to find the "sear rest limit point" (thats what I call it because I cant find an actual name for it) in later steps.

3) Check the possible frame for the front screw and rear screw hole lineup. This is the step where most problems later on come from. The "sear rest limit point" is DIRECTLY RELATED to these 2 holes. You should ALWAYS take yout measurements from these 2 as they MUST line up with all ADG spec parts to work with AGD markers. Working from the front of a frame or a trigger pin hole is not a wise idea. They dont hold the same tolerances (I will explain that some more in detail later)

4) What actuator will you use? This is the point where you check out how much "play" you have to do which mod. The MPA-3 ram (the one Cyberave68 sells) is 1" long (un-cut). So you would take the distance from where you would like to drill your front mount screw hole (the center), measure to the back of the frame you want to use, and find the "sear rest limit point". The you would SUBTRACT 1" for the MPA-3 ram, then SUBTRACT .125" for pre stroke travel (MPA-3 has a much higher force when the sear isnt resting agains the ram/piston. This number is not made up, taken from Clippards Home Page). Lastly,... you need to SUBTRACT the amount of space needed for a barb on the back of the MPA-3.

5) Draw lines. You need to mark out the REAR lines of where the MPA-3 falls. Do you have enough room to fit it in, or do you need to mill some material out? Is the actuator going to hit the trigger in the frame you chose? The width is not important right now, you only need to know if this small piece will fit. You always need to be installing the parts and re-fitting EVERYTHING as it would work when your done. Skipping these measurement steps can be the reason for a working or failing mod.

6) Check front mount screw hole proposed location for ASA/vertical grip mount space. In the event you use a frame that has a much larger trigger guard design such as the EGO or Angel, you may have to mill or shift your frame to the rear of the rail to leave enough space for the ASA/fore grip. You need about 0.666" of space betwen the center of the front mount screw hole and the front of your frame.

7) Check the depth of your actuator. You need to remember that the sear does come down into the trigger frame some when it moves, so plan that into your calculations. This is why you need the body mounted for measuring. With the body mounted, your sear will only move as far as it can,.. thus you should be able to measure the radius of your actuator and know if it sits low enough. The radius of an MPA-3 is 0.281". If you mount the MPA-3 horizontal (meaning that whatever plane your rail is at, the MPA-3 SHOULD be mounted parallel to it) then you are safe. The actuator should hit the center of your sear at the bottom. Its important to mount it this way because of the amount of force needed is far less to move the on/off pin than it would be as a higher contact point or at an angle facing down.

8) Cosmetics. Now that you have all the hard stuff out of the way, how do you want this frame to look? I say this last because most guys look at the way things will be when its done BEFORE they can really say "this whole design will work AND look good when Im done". For me, this is how you can really make a project expensive REALLY fast! Knowing what you have to work with before you do it is great. If you were using a pancake solenoid to do this mod and you find out you cant get the front fore grip you want to use in with the frame because the location you have to drill a hole for the front mount screw wont work with the "sear rest limit point" BEFORE you drill anything,.. is kinda nice. :)

Most of the guys that have done this kind of mod before already do these things (maybe in a different order) so they will know right away where Im comming from. Those of you that want to TRY your hand at it,... go for it! Its not like its hard,... you just cant rush anything you do. If you dont have all the tools (drill bits, a means to mill or cut things), parts, etc,... you need to hold off till you get them.

~ P8nt

Can't think of a better walk through.

[ezcreation]

Might sound like a stupid question but do you have to disable the eyes each time?