any chance of new mags from AGD anytime?

[blackdeath1k]

I'm betting production expense wise a classic valve doesn't cost much less if any to produce than an rt platform valve. So why start making the lower capability valve again? That is pointless capitol expense waste on a company. Now if it could be produced at half the price. And an rt platform valve couldn't. Then there just might be a market for that. Since you could now have a cheaper entry level gun.

Efficiency? Only time I could see this being a real issue could be in a big game. Other than that. What's the issue? Most Fields are free air with the admission to play. Get air before each game. Or after a couple games. Heck. If you don't have a lead finger you may get through a day on a 68 4500 tank. I normally get through a day on a single fill. And I've never had more than 3300psi in my tank due to the area I live.

Rich players? I've got 2 mags. A classic rt set bone stock other than the I frame. I fell in love with these guns when they came out and can't even bring myself to remove the sight rail because I like its look. Wife now has a used classic minimag with I frame. Nothing special. At some point I would love to have a fancy mag body. But other toys of mine earn the money over having many guns. We all spend money on toys. Some have a lot of paintball guns. Some have one horribly expensive gun. Me. I have and expensive customs sport bike. To mouth off about the people with the expensive guns being rich? No. Paintball guns are just there hobby that gets the money.

As for AGD. I just want them to stay in business for years to come. And that can only happen as long as there is profit coming in the doors. Since there 500 dollar new gun in mech form can compete with all the fancy electros. And without batteries. And having great reliability. With many options for flashy upgrades or one off customs designs. To me. It seams that publicity and marketing is really all the company needs to stay strong and stable. I don't expect them to ever be where they were in the market in the mid 90s. But I want to know that they are stable. This is the one last original pb company.

[Freedy500]

1) why? what advantage could you have with a ULE classic? the reason its SS, is because it was supposed to last a life time.

2) by turning a classic to fit a ULT, it makes it a X valve, so what's the point of the X valve other than weighing less than the classic. so what is the advantage, what is the reason to do it?

3) this is a weird one. when i put my L10 in my Mag my efficiency went up. don't know what i did, but i can get 1200+ shots off a 68/4500. but, with the no cost air options, do you need more efficiency? i generally carry only as much paint as i can off a full fill. i don't need to worry about efficiency. though for someone wanting to run a tourney with a mag, this could be something, but what about people shooting shockers(SFT & NXT), or other spool type valves that aren't getting a case off a 68/4500? the efficiency game is a non factor to me.

4) even though people want them, the Y and Z frames weren't huge sellers. even though they are desired, if tomorrow they were made available, could you buy one? that's the thing. look at all the pre-orders and the people who want these kinds of products, but when people put in the time and money to make them, the orders fall flat and no one comes up with the cash and people get angry when these things fall through.

Hey I did not look for much criticism or an argument stand point but oh well. Just stating my personal opinions, I even said none of these would ever happen. Oh well here I go.

1). I dont mean to come off of as offensive but this is really a flat out stupid question. How about I triple the thickness of everything in your marker with the same performance and throw a few 20lb weights on your marker and throw somebody of an equivalent skill with the same marker that was standard with no added on weight but same performance and see the difference. Or an even better example is whether you would want your shoes to weigh 10 pounds each or under 1lb each with the same durability? I am not looking to degrade the durability in the classic. It could just be made lighter with some different materials which could actually be better to produce since SS is tough on machinery.

2). Lets see, the price range might jut be a tad bit different dont ya think? Also not all X-valves use the ULT you know. You cant RT and get 20-30+ on a classic can you? Plenty of the X-valve is different in terms of how it compares to the classic, there are two different parts kits for a reason. Also with the classic's trigger pull being hard as a rock and me having a minimag pistol it would be nice to have a smoother trigger pull. Not looking to walk it or anything.

3). EX. Lets say you have the choice between 2 cars that are both hybrids, they can both run off of electricity only for 40 miles each. You travel that at most everyday when you go to work and by days end you need to recharge. But one of the cars only gets 22 miles to the gallon and has a tank that holds 15 gallons. And the other car gets 68 mpg with a tank that also holds 15 gallons. Which would you rather have? Maybe one night you forgot to charge the car and you had a big trip to go on and you had no way to pay for gas. I can get unlimited air fills for a whole year at both my shop and local field for only $10 a year per tank. But I would sure as hell want a more efficient marker if given the option. like in the example, what if I dont have time or I forget to go get a fill and a important game is about to take place? Also if it is efficient enough you could potentially use a smaller tank which would weigh less and you therefore have more "ease of use" and you are faster and less fatigued throughout each game.

4). No I would not be able to buy one tomorrow. So that is why you pre-order it. You are given a "heads up" or a deadline. If by the deadline you do not have all money turned for the X amount of orders then you will have to wait by the next deadline where the other people need to pay off their money. Not that hard to comprehend. I said pre-order not permanently put back into production.

[Nobody]

Hey I did not look for much criticism or an argument stand point but oh well. Just stating my personal opinions, I even said none of these would ever happen. Oh well here I go.

i was looking for a good, solid, frank discussion. if you want an e-arguement, or a flame war, let's go over to MCB and say that the only thing that brass is good for is to make musical instruments so you can play something at the bonfire of the burning KP stocks. :) this is to maybe work out what people want, what people are looking for, and to see if through this discussion, that maybe we can spark some interest in something new.

1). I dont mean to come off of as offensive but this is really a flat out stupid question. How about I triple the thickness of everything in your marker with the same performance and throw a few 20lb weights on your marker and throw somebody of an equivalent skill with the same marker that was standard with no added on weight but same performance and see the difference. Or an even better example is whether you would want your shoes to weigh 10 pounds each or under 1lb each with the same durability? I am not looking to degrade the durability in the classic. It could just be made lighter with some different materials which could actually be better to produce since SS is tough on machinery.

never any stupid questions, just stupid people asking stupid questions(but that is not directed at you). to me, the classic is fine valve but dead as a platform. plus, there are tons of classic valves out there so that you don't need something new. though i agree that the classic could go on a diet, even just finding someone to reliably cut the weight off, would be a god send. now for the trigger, that's simple, leverage of a 2 finger trigger frame. but then you have the people that don't like a 2 finger trigger and we are back to step 1. so in that i can see where you are coming from.

2). Lets see, the price range might jut be a tad bit different dont ya think? Also not all X-valves use the ULT you know. You cant RT and get 20-30+ on a classic can you? Plenty of the X-valve is different in terms of how it compares to the classic, there are two different parts kits for a reason. Also with the classic's trigger pull being hard as a rock and me having a minimag pistol it would be nice to have a smoother trigger pull. Not looking to walk it or anything.

granted, i have limited experience with the X type valve. i don't know about the limited use of the ULT in all the valves. i have the experience with the classic but near nothing with X or Retro or Emag or any of the newer valves. now for your minimag pistol, i would think that a pneumatic trigger(but not one that RTs) would make it easier for you. but in all honesty, i can't remember what a single trigger felt like with a classic. i never had a problem, but i is one, me.

3). EX. Lets say you have the choice between 2 cars that are both hybrids, they can both run off of electricity only for 40 miles each. You travel that at most everyday when you go to work and by days end you need to recharge. But one of the cars only gets 22 miles to the gallon and has a tank that holds 15 gallons. And the other car gets 68 mpg with a tank that also holds 15 gallons. Which would you rather have? Maybe one night you forgot to charge the car and you had a big trip to go on and you had no way to pay for gas. I can get unlimited air fills for a whole year at both my shop and local field for only $10 a year per tank. But I would sure as hell want a more efficient marker if given the option. like in the example, what if I dont have time or I forget to go get a fill and a important game is about to take place? Also if it is efficient enough you could potentially use a smaller tank which would weigh less and you therefore have more "ease of use" and you are faster and less fatigued throughout each game.

in terms of efficiency, would it be worth it? the bottle size to me is insignificant, i use 68/4500 almost all the time, with just a 45/45 for a couple things. i can see this argument, but how do we improve it? if you lighten the rest of the gun, then the bottle weight/size doesn't matter. if you improve just the efficiency then you can shorten the gun. its apple and oranges to me. this is one thing that i don't have an answer on.

4). No I would not be able to buy one tomorrow. So that is why you pre-order it. You are given a "heads up" or a deadline. If by the deadline you do not have all money turned for the X amount of orders then you will have to wait by the next deadline where the other people need to pay off their money. Not that hard to comprehend. I said pre-order not permanently put back into production.

we all know that pre-orders are like. we get all the good intentions, people step up, people pay and if there are problems then that's when the poop hits the fan. even if something came from AGD, they not only need a bigger pre-order number to make it happen, they would need a great number of pre-sold even to get it started. higher numbers will get the costs down, but it would mean that you would have to sell more. having the money put into an escrow account would help with people backing out, but its the starting that is the hardest. i like the Z frame, but i'm not ready to think about buying one. but even a limited run would be nice to see. and as much as i could naysay, i hope this is more of a Devil's advocate and help get things off the ground, by putting a fire in someone's belly and proving me wrong.

so this is what i would like to see in a new gun.

1) different or improved rail. chopping out the excess metal and giving it a better look. would love to see the entire line of Emag, classic and RTPro
2) a updated ULE body, or even a couple bodies. just a different look, something new instead of the same old body that was made 10 years ago
3) stock clamping feedneck that says AGD
4) pump kit, but that is a pipe dream that will never happen

that's it. i'm not looking for a new gun, just some support for what they already have and will sell more easily.

[cockerpunk]

IIT: people who have no idea what they are talking about.

there is not going to be another automag from AGD ... get over it.

AGD is a shoebox of parts in roman's garage. literally.

[OPBN]

We have a ULE Classic valve that's made out of a lighter material, it's called an X valve. Using the Corvette analogy again, asking to start making Classics again is like asking GM to start producing C5's again. Just because they are an older design doesn't make them less expensive to produce. The problem is, we see Classic valves out there used for $45-60 and think that this is all they went for when new. Pretty sure they were considerably higher than what they are selling for now. Much like used Corvettes sell for considerably less than new ones. And then when a new generation comes out, they drop even more.

And Luke does the mod on Classics so they will accept a ULT.

Only so much you can really do with ULE bodies. I also feel this is something for the aftermarket.

Maybe TOTShadow or someone can get an AGD clamping feedneck order together. AKA or CCM make nice feednecks, maybe a batch can be ordered without logos or maybe CCM would run a small batch or AO or AGD ones? Seems like a pretty simple request. I'm not interested in one, as I order all mine without lazering, but to each his own.

I think Rainman will start making pumps again and I have heard rumblings of another person possibly making some. With that said, everyone that makes pump kits excluding XM15 says they are slow movers. I do think howeever, if someone came out again with a sub $80 pump kit that they would sell. Irony of pumps being on fire nowadays and no one producing kits. I'm sure as soon as the pump fad dies 3 different people will come out with something.

[blackdeath1k]

AGD is a shoebox of parts in roman's garage. literally.

That is the sad thing I hate to hear. But sadly I bet it is correct.

[GoatBoy]

How many units do you believe you would have to make (and sell) to reach the price point you have in mind?

I don't have a breakout of how much each bit costs, but the big items would be 3 pims, effectively two ~0.750" holes and that spring carrier/washer (hadn't thought of baking in, but it makes sense now) in the middle of the stainless body.

And the accompanying plastic bits which of course I can take care of.




On the original topic of this thread, yes, nothing is coming forth from AGD.