just an idea..

[Cokrkilr]

Obviously i just whipped this up super quick with images from the net, but I thought this basic design, just refined would be pretty neat... and add ULT in dead space, or swap around ULT space and lvl x etc

This would also work well on a taller size mat, the valve images could be huge like this... you could also get the LVL x stuff taken out of the x valve picture, that would open up more room to make the image bigger, plus not look so cluttered with 4 different bolt images and break downs....

[GoatBoy]

Obviously i just whipped this up super quick with images from the net, but I thought this basic design, just refined would be pretty neat... and add ULT in dead space, or swap around ULT space and lvl x etc

This would also work well on a taller size, the valve images could be huge like this... you could also get the LVL x stuff taken out of the x valve picture, that would open up more room to make the image bigger, plus not look so cluttered with 4 different bolt images and break downs....

Uh actually the Level 10 is part of the X-Valve diagram, and the L7 is part of the Classic diagram.

Remove the L10 bolt and logo and replace with ULT and o-rings...

[Cokrkilr]

i thought there was a request to have the lvl 10 stuff in a larger seperate diagram as well? simple enough though... I also could not find a ult diagram, I think because its so small (ult) you could do the diagram and o ring guide in the same area of the mat, it could be like a 7" tall may 8-9" wide space in real perspective... definately large enough to do ult and o ring sizes to keep the logo. I mean without agd we'd have no guns to make mats for

imagine IF this mat could be done in an 18" tall by 24" wide size, and the logo was only 4x4, those would be HUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEE valve pictures, like 8 tall x 17 wide, or even bigger

[Cokrkilr]

hows about this, I made the valves a little larger in size and just allocated the space, since I cant find pics for the other things... but like I said, this is just a general layout. I figure the ULT space can go up the side cuz its just a few small parts in a row and doesnt need a ton of space or to be monsterous in size, the size allocated you could make it about 8x larger than real life when its all exploded out up the side.



Or this would give more room for all three, then you could do o rings from small to large with size # under it

[Mole1119]

I agree 12 x 36 is an awkward size and they were more expensive than the 11 x 17.

I am going to talk to a couple of graphics people i know today at work and get some advice.

Like I mentioned I already got some basic info from tekmat and don't mind stepping up and taking the lead. If I do it, I want to make sure I run it well. I have seen to many pre-sales here end in disaster. I was thinking going the kickstarter route, but need to read up on the process.

I would take the ideas here and draw up 2-3 protoype layouts and put it to a vote before any money was accepted.

Not trying to steal anyone thunder so if some wants to lead this than by all means do it. But it would look rather poor if all of sudden 10 people started bombarding the manufacturer with questions.

[bbotts77]

I love this idea. I had recently been shopping around for tech mats. 11x17 is a good size that's like two standard (8.5x11) sheets of paper, side by side (if you need want an easy way to size it up). I think that's plenty of room for what you're talking about putting on there. One of the mats I was looking at had the 1:1 scale Oring size chart along the left border of the mat. I think that was on one of Kohn's mats. We could do something similar, maybe xvalve orings across the top and classic across the bottom. If we could find the exploded view images without the gradient background (I thought I saw those at one point), we could put a faded AGD logo as the background, leaving more room on the mat for the tech diagrams.

[Cokrkilr]

The other problem is finding a high Res image to be able to blow up without distortion.

I was thinking if someone did a 3D cad file of each item wanted it would work out best, leave out numbers etc and just plain white background. But I know that's a lot of work. Maybe the guy that steps up and can do it gets a mat paid for by everyone else

[Freedy500]

Okay just to throw this out there. If anybody disagrees with me then we can still keep them but could we just get rid of the 21-26? The back reg nuts and all that for both the classic and X-valve? Just to save space and I mean how often do we actually need to open those up? Much less put them back together.

Now as for the ULT and making a more refined image. We will need somebody who has plenty of experience with graphics design and we can use this project as an excuse to update and make a much larger, higher resolution image. I do not believe any ULT diagrams are out there so I feel that we will have to make one ourselves. I have absolutely NO experience with graphic design as I said before. But I believe our first step in this would be to get (or make) very high quality images that we could use. I feel this should be our first obstacle to overcome. Next I believe we start a new thread or two to attempt to gain more attention on this. Maybe we should make a pre-order list of some sort in the dealer forum consisting of people who are 100% interested. Once we get a good tally up to the point of which we need we should give it a few days for anybody that wants to join in and then we should order it.

Now as for size. My personal preference would be long gun as I have a large enough work space to support a mat this size and I was thinking the more room we have the easier it is for us to fit everything. If the majority say they want the smaller one instead then we will get a smaller one. Now if we could mix and match our sizes for the mats then that would be GREAT, we should try and work on that as the larger it is the more ease of use I will have with it.

[Cokrkilr]

I kind of disagree on taking pieces from the diagram out, kind of defeats the purpose... you don't buy a manual for a car that's missing the wiring diagrams do you?

There will always be negative unused space on something like this, the pieces proposed to leave out wouldn't really make a difference in being able to make the image much higher anyhow, they'd be there more to take up negative space. Imagine the images above on two sheets of paper put together

[Freedy500]

I kind of disagree on taking pieces from the diagram out, kind of defeats the purpose... you don't buy a manual for a car that's missing the wiring diagrams do you?

There will always be negative unused space on something like this, the pieces proposed to leave out wouldn't really make a difference in being able to make the image much higher anyhow, they'd be there more to take up negative space. Imagine the images above on two sheets of paper put together

Eh. I see your point of view. I guess not then. Just another idea that spawned in my head. Because I mean how often does anybody actually need to take the back half apart? But yeah I guess we might as well keep it. I just wanted an opinion if we needed to get some space.

[Cokrkilr]

I set this up at 11x17. Ill say it now, with both valves they will be no larger than 1:1, there would be no way to fit them larger on this size mat. all the stuff proposed will fit in the negative spaces, but it will be tight and could look cluttered if not done right.

heres the reference pics with my valves



size with gun on it

[Cokrkilr]

All the power tube stuff from.both valves would be behind the bolts like normal, then the ult in the small space, o rings in the larger space... that's another possibility.

What's this worth to people anyhow? I mean what would you pay for it? Id go up to like $50-$60 to have it even larger, 18x24 or something around that size

[Freedy500]

All the power tube stuff from.both valves would be behind the bolts like normal, then the ult in the small space, o rings in the larger space... that's another possibility.

What's this worth to people anyhow? I mean what would you pay for it? Id go up to like $50-$60 to have it even larger, 18x24 or something around that size

I would pay that if it was more of a 18x36. I seem to be the only one gunning for the larger one here. I have a large work space and getting the larger one would leave so much more space for designing, decorations and more importantly, technicals. I dont want to make it seem neccesary but if we got the larger one then this could be so much easier. We would have plenty of space.

[Cokrkilr]

I would pay that if it was more of a 18x36. I seem to be the only one gunning for the larger one here. I have a large work space and getting the larger one would leave so much more space for designing, decorations and more importantly, technicals. I dont want to make it seem neccesary but if we got the larger one then this could be so much easier. We would have plenty of space.

yeah thats true, but I work on my mag and have my guns/parts stuff on a small computer desk, 36" is too wide... at least for myself, and that would put me out of really being interested if I have to pull the mat out to the kitchen table every time I want to tinker, cuz that would piss off the wifey at that point, haha. 18x24 is still pretty large. ill fold a towel in that shape and do what I did with the pics above, then 12x36 and 18x36 just for reference. ill just lay the valves on it, i dont feel like pulling them apart a bunch of times

ill be back

[Cokrkilr]

18x24



18x36



12x36




IMO, 12x36 would be a weird size to lay stuff out. The 18x36 is massive, id see that being too expensive. The 18x24 is still big, and still may surpass even $50-$60 to make.

All three sizes are nice though, to fit a full marker and some spare parts or whatever your tinkering on.

[RehKal]

I'm all for a larger size as well. Several of my mags have stocks on them which would make them difficult to fit on a smaller mat. That being said I would probably actually buy two mats, one of each size. Mostly because I will have a tailor made space for working and tinkering on my markers so space is not an issue for me. It would be nice to have the option of two different size mats with similar layouts, price is not that much of a concern for me either. The 18x36 may be a tad bit of overkill as has been said, I think the 12x36 and 11x24 would be the two sizes to go with.

Mole, if you want to take lead go ahead and do so. You've already been in touch with tekmat and know what they have to offer. Start up a officail AGD/AO techmat thread so it gets some more attention. We'll need to find someone that can do the layout, maybe TK would have some old hard copies (that can be scanned) or higher res digital copies of the valve layouts? Also we'll need the oring chart to be laid out as well. Get a list started of people interested in pre-ordering and what sizes they would want.

[Cokrkilr]

The 11x 24 size you mentioned would end up where the grip is on my marker. I think being that narrow and short would run into the problems of the 11x17, not being able to blow up the valves any and still being fairly pressed for space for a good layout that "flows".

I like the idea of a long mat for people that have the space, and a more squared up mat for the people that dont. Plus both sizes (12x36 & 18x24) would have the same real estate space, so youd only have to make one image of each to fill the space on each mat. Instead of possibly having to do a 1:1 on the smaller mat and a 1:1.5 or whatever it ends up on the larger mat (less expensive and time consuming).

Just thoughts not trying to get under anyones skin or anything

[harleywrench001]

Just throwing this out there. I found a company that makes custom mats for card games that are 14" x 24" x 1/16" thick, the tops are 100% polyester and the bottom is rubber. They are comparable to a mouse pad. They are machine washable. They accept .pdf, .cdr, .eps, .ai, .psd, .tif and .jpg file formats. Now I understand these will not be quite as tough as the thick rubber work mats but personally I don't need something to use carb/ brake cleaner on and beat on with a hammer and gasket hole punches like I do when working on cars and motorcycles (I have an actual thick rubber work mat there). I think they would be plenty tough enough for paintball and easier to roll up and store. They would also be cheaper. Bulk orders of 25 or more could be sold for about $15 shipped. What do you all think?

[Cokrkilr]

Just throwing this out there. I found a company that makes custom mats for card games that are 14" x 24" x 1/16" thick, the tops are 100% polyester and the bottom is rubber. They are comparable to a mouse pad. They are machine washable. They accept .pdf, .cdr, .eps, .ai, .psd, .tif and .jpg file formats. Now I understand these will not be quite as tough as the thick rubber work mats but personally I don't need something to use carb/ brake cleaner on and beat on with a hammer and gasket hole punches like I do when working on cars and motorcycles (I have an actual thick rubber work mat there). I think they would be plenty tough enough for paintball and easier to roll up and store. They would also be cheaper. Bulk orders of 25 or more could be sold for about $15 shipped. What do you all think?

In over here

[Mole1119]

Made a couple calls today.
Checked in with tekmats to see what other die sizes they have and associated pricing. I inquired so see if they had something in the 18 x 24 or near that.
Tracked down a graphic designer that may be able to help me with this. Hopefully I will get a chance to talk to her about how the best way to build quality graphics in the next week.
I have CAD knowledge and access to some software, if it comes down to doing a bunch of modeling to get the graphics done right, I will do it. It may take me some time though, I do have a full time job.

Here is some stuff i was messing around with, the concept isn't finished but at least something to start a conversation with a graphic designer.

[Mole1119]

Just throwing this out there. I found a company that makes custom mats for card games that are 14" x 24" x 1/16" thick, the tops are 100% polyester and the bottom is rubber. They are comparable to a mouse pad. They are machine washable. They accept .pdf, .cdr, .eps, .ai, .psd, .tif and .jpg file formats. Now I understand these will not be quite as tough as the thick rubber work mats but personally I don't need something to use carb/ brake cleaner on and beat on with a hammer and gasket hole punches like I do when working on cars and motorcycles (I have an actual thick rubber work mat there). I think they would be plenty tough enough for paintball and easier to roll up and store. They would also be cheaper. Bulk orders of 25 or more could be sold for about $15 shipped. What do you all think?

This sounds great, reducing the minimum order would do wonders for pricing. I also ordered one of the tekmats today because I want to take a look at how they are made and compare them to what a mouse pad looks/feels like.
If you are willing to pass along the company name I would be happy to dig into it and try and get the cost per mat down.

I hope know one takes my earlier $30 estimate as set in stone that was just what I guesstimated when I looked into it earlier. I need to nail down a lot more info before I have a clear price in mind.

[RehKal]

Personally I would rather have something more durable than a plastic topped mousepad. To me it would just seem cheesy and cheap. If it has AGD logo on it, I'd rather have a quality feel to it. just my opinion on that.

As for the measurements I've been quoting, those are the two standard sizes tekmat offers. Hopefully they offer other sizes but as with anything nonstandard... The price will go up.

[Cokrkilr]

This sounds great, reducing the minimum order would do wonders for pricing. I also ordered one of the tekmats today because I want to take a look at how they are made and compare them to what a mouse pad looks/feels like.
If you are willing to pass along the company name I would be happy to dig into it and try and get the cost per mat down.

I hope know one takes my earlier $30 estimate as set in stone that was just what I guesstimated when I looked into it earlier. I need to nail down a lot more info before I have a clear price in mind.

I would suspect them to be around double for the sizes we have thought of. I was a bar manager for 4 years and ordered many bar mats that were 18x18, most we got for free but specialty ones were around $45 depending on the company. And they were pretty basic mats with just booze logos on them.

[Freedy500]

Personally I would rather have something more durable than a plastic topped mousepad. To me it would just seem cheesy and cheap. If it has AGD logo on it, I'd rather have a quality feel to it. just my opinion on that.

As for the measurements I've been quoting, those are the two standard sizes tekmat offers. Hopefully they offer other sizes but as with anything nonstandard... The price will go up.

This, agreed. I would want something to last and not tear for sure. I agree that 18x36 is huge and we wont need it. I would prefer to keep it with the long gun size. If we can get it done as an option for either size that would be perfect for me.

[Justus]

My vote would be for the mat that's more durable. We don't hit them with hammers or pour brake cleaner on them, but we do work with grease and oil when working on our valves. I also find myself using wrenches, o-ring picks, screwdrivers, etc.

I would also vote for a mat that is 36" wide. That doesn't seem awkward or weird at all to me. It actually seems more natural to be able to roll out something wide like that. First, chances are if you need a gun mat you're working on more than just one gun. Maybe a tank, loader, etc. And you're going to need to spread things out a little bit. Getting a gun mat that's the exact same size as your assembled 'Mag doesn't give you any room to actually work. For me to be interested in a gun mat, it's got to have a bigger footprint than my laptop. Also, the 18"x18" size that's been mentioned actually seems weird to me. Our 'Mags are not square. That layout doesn't allow things to really flow very well.

Just my $.02. I'm interested, depending on the usefulness of the final product.

[knownothingmags]

i would talk to RC remote control car tech mats companies.
they make theirs outa rummber pretty much.

but im down for 2 for sure, if they are durable, and not just plastic toped foam.

[TimmyJay]

I would be interested in one. Not in a rush for it so I can save up some money. It would need to have the X and classic. I would like to have a semi transparent honeycomb backdrop.

[knownothingmags]

i would do a mat and try and get as much reference design and oring sizes on the mat as possible.
big help while teching

[barkingspider]

I have a few rifle mats that have exploded views of various weapons and have learned to love the durability of the rubber mats with a slightly higher edge than the mouse pad type. The wear and tear really shows with the mouse pad type of mat from my experience.

I can't wait for this idea to become a reality.

I also vote for the 36" long size similar to a traditional rifle maintenance mat. They fit great on my work bench

[Freedy500]

Yay! Now I have some people who seem to follow the same train of thought as I do! I totally agree with the above 5 posts.

Also, at this point it seems we will have the classic and X-valve both on the same mat. Most likely including the ULT. Not sure about decorations. So for us it seems like we also have an equivalent amount of interest for the 12x36? If we get this size I imagine that we could have everything easily put on there. I will contact TK again regarding higher resolution photos of the technicals. Also we are not in a huge hurry. I want to make sure that the final product is very well laid out as neatly as possible with a good looking decoration or two. The logo I mentioned above with "Quality Always Shoots Straight" will most likely be our first "Go-To" for an add on for looks. Next will be put up for a vote. I personally like the AO color scheme honeycomb design and could see it as a nice backround color for the left over room. I say once we get a perfect lay out of the mat we move on to the more time consuming part of what and where to put additional add on's for looks. This will be a great time killer. Lets get this moving people!

Also, all input will be greatly appreciated and will be crucial for coming out with a final, appealing product that we all agree on. So please participate in this discussion as we move along. All suggestions and ideas are welcome.