EMAGs in the real world?

[2xFast]

Out of curiosity does anyone here use their emag as a daily driver? Any thoughts on how they are holding up next to the modern crop of electro's?

[cockerpunk]

heavy, but fun.

the lack of eyes annoy me. sure no chops, but being interrupted mid-lane is annoying. the mech mode makes them ideal IMO for big games.

in every way a mid level modern electro is better, but so what?

[Ailia]

Mine has been my primary marker for a few months now. Is quite a bit heavier than my teammates guns, haven't had to sit a game for eye or gun problems though I did end up playing through a few in mech mode.

[Flatliner333]

So what exactly is the average weight of an E Mag ? And out of curiosity an SFL Emag ?

[VecTor]

I have used my Emag only all last season and most of this season. There were some games I switched to mech for fun (or when I forgot to charge batt and had to go mech) but I suppose that’s the biggest advantage of the Emag over others.

There was someone here that was talking about making a lithium battery I think that would help out with the weight. Even a half size lithium battery for days when you aren’t going to shot a lot would be nice.

[knownothingmags]

that's all I own now.
so If I ever play a game it is with an emag.

[2xFast]

Thanks for the responses.

Can you tell me why you guys use the EMAG? Just to be different? Or is it just more fun to shoot?

[ScottyBeans]

Any thoughts on how they are holding up next to the modern crop of electro's?

Very good question. I've often wondered this myself.

[OPBN]

I have two Emags and they reside on the wall.

[Frizzle Fry]

heavy, but fun.

"Heavy" is relative. It's on par with other electros of the era in which it was released. If you ever carried an Angel LCD, AKA Excalibur, Shocker 4x4 or Gen-E matrix into a tournament, you won't be shocked by the weight. If you're used to "lugging" around an Ego11 you might be in for a surprise though.

the lack of eyes annoy me. sure no chops, but being interrupted mid-lane is annoying. the mech mode makes them ideal IMO for big games.

If you actually know how to tune your Level 10 there's no problem with consistent laning; it's very simple to do and anyone on here would be happy to help walk you through it. If that's too tough for you, you can use literally any of the electronic loaders on the market in tandem with an L7 or tuned-down L10 you will also be fine. There are very few situations that call for over 14bps, a speed that any loader sold these days (other than maybe one of the many lemon V-Maxs I've seen) can keep up with reliably.

in every way a mid. level modern electro is better, but so what?

No denying that almost every electronic marker is more efficient (I only get about 1600 shots off a 88/45), and you'd want to get your board flashed to XMOD so that you have the necessary modes - those would be my only concerns when it comes to staying competitive. In the sense that newer markers are lighter in weight, that's completely subjective. I'd like to hear what else "every way" entails.

[2xFast]

How would you guys rank it's ability to handle fragile paint (with the level x bolt)?

[Patron God of Pirates]

I'm probably the worst person to be responding to this because I am anti-electro in general. Modern electro markers achieve their RoF in a way that has only a very loose connection to actual trigger pulls. Some are worse than others but they are all essentially cheating (consistently violating the 1 pull 1 shot principle). It's to be expected (inevitable) since the easiest and cheapest way to gain performance advantages over your competitors products is to program them in. Once one did it everyone had to follow suit and you get what we have today. I say this only to express my distaste for electro's in general. The fact that my pneumags and RTs can out shoot them without eyes, batteries, micro switches, or violation of 1 pull 1 shot, and yet the elctro's are tourney legal if frankly laughable. The sport is owned by the industry rather than the industry being driven by the sport. But I digress.

E-Mags don't cheat (note: I have not used my switch listener to test an E-Mag so when I say they don't cheat I'm basing that on my very positive opinion of TK's integrity). Their electronic performance is technically inferior (in the same way that every hitter in baseball today is technically inferior to the best hitters of the steroid era). I sold my E-Mag because I found myself always in mech or hybrid and figured I'd be better off with LX RT's.

Performance on paint is going to depend on how you tune the LX. In that way they are identical to RT's so can speak to that. I average about 2 chuffs a day (usually right at the start) I have not chopped a ball in years. HOWEVER. The LX kicking in can occasionally cause "bloopers" these shots occur right after the lx activates. It is possible to shoot a blooper with the flowing shot while it is still in the barrel.

[nak81783]

I bought an X-Mag simply for nostalgia. I've been shooting Mags for 12 years, and I could finally afford an X-Mag. Does it help my game? No. I leave it in semi in e-mode most of the time (even though I have XMod 1.8), but I can't walk a trigger to save my life. I only use my middle finger, because using my pointer causes bad habits with my other hobby - target shooting. Given the aforementioned, I can pull my ULT mech Mag just as fast, and it's lighter. But I like the younger crowd asking, "What the heck is that?" I also like other AGD fans (past or present) catching the bug. My buddy bought an E-mag after seeing my X-Mag. He's been running a Classic for about 20 years, even though I've shown him the advantages of X-Valve, Level 10, ULT, etc. throughout the years of me upgrading. The X-Mag finally convinced him to upgrade. Thanks for the great marker, XMT.

Honestly, I can't remember the last time I chopped, since I bought a Halo when the B's first came out. I don't know where the shredder image came from. Even before an Intelliframe linked to a Revy, I was shooting paint with my Level 7 Classic that Cockers, Bushmasters, Rainmakers, Shockers, and a myriad of blowbacks were breaking down the barrel.

Anyway, about your original question, I rotate my three markers - X-Mag, Mech Mag, and E2 Cocker, so an E/X-Mag is not my daily driver - but neither are the other two. I would think that most with experience (looks like you've been playing at least since 2002, so I would assume you qualify) can hold their own against any crowd with any form of semi marker and e-hopper. There was (what I consider) a similar thread a few weeks ago about feeling outgunned running a Mag. You might wanna look at that thread too.

I was about to hijack, but I'll post the rest elswhere...

[2xFast]

Good insight. Thanks.

I'm not looking for a magic uber gun. Mostly I'm just terrible at making up my mind when there's more than one shiny object involved. That and I'm terrible with nostalgia. I'll decide a gun is crap, sell it off then come crawling back to it 5 years later. It's a pattern.

I'll probably end up going the EMag route. I like to have something a little different and I'm not hearing any huge warning bells. No one's shouting about not being able to handle today's brittle paint...which I guess I should have been able to figure out with my pump mag but still...semi-auto is different

Sounds like they're still not the lightest thing out there...still not the creme de la creme for trigger pull, still gas-hogs...but still reliable, odd-ball and fun. Probably exactly what I'm really after.

[Sniper Steve]

I use emags just about every time I play. With the X-mod they keep up just fine with other high end electros. One of the teams around here all they shoot are MacDevs and I can go toe to toe with them and I don't even have to throw a lot of paint, most of the time I just uses semi-auto. The only time I really use the ramp settings are when I go to Supergame. In say the Millennium mode I can empty my hopper quickly with out any breaks, especially since I have been using the Rotor. I like the weight, the really light guns throw me off for some reason.

[DarkApollo]

I'm probably the worst person to be responding to this because I am anti-electro in general. Modern electro markers achieve their RoF in a way that has only a very loose connection to actual trigger pulls. Some are worse than others but they are all essentially cheating (consistently violating the 1 pull 1 shot principle). It's to be expected (inevitable) since the easiest and cheapest way to gain performance advantages over your competitors products is to program them in. Once one did it everyone had to follow suit and you get what we have today. I say this only to express my distaste for electro's in general. The fact that my pneumags and RTs can out shoot them without eyes, batteries, micro switches, or violation of 1 pull 1 shot, and yet the elctro's are tourney legal if frankly laughable. The sport is owned by the industry rather than the industry being driven by the sport. But I digress.

E-Mags don't cheat (note: I have not used my switch listener to test an E-Mag so when I say they don't cheat I'm basing that on my very positive opinion of TK's integrity). Their electronic performance is technically inferior (in the same way that every hitter in baseball today is technically inferior to the best hitters of the steroid era). I sold my E-Mag because I found myself always in mech or hybrid and figured I'd be better off with LX RT's.

Performance on paint is going to depend on how you tune the LX. In that way they are identical to RT's so can speak to that. I average about 2 chuffs a day (usually right at the start) I have not chopped a ball in years. HOWEVER. The LX kicking in can occasionally cause "bloopers" these shots occur right after the lx activates. It is possible to shoot a blooper with the flowing shot while it is still in the barrel.

LOL WUT?
Every electro I own is one pull one shot. Angels, Timmys, Cockers, etc.. Yes you CAN make it shot more, but SEMI is SEMI. The switch CANNOT send more than one signal, ever. That is just not how it is made. The microcontroller can split up that signal but by default, every trigger pull will be one shot.
I would LOVE to see someone pull a trigger so fast that a ball is still in the barrel (traveling at 300' per second, the average barrel of 12" or 1' would mean the ball has left the barrel after 1/300th of a second, TELL me that you can 'blooper' a shot that fast)
Every time I have seen an LX vent, it takes a second to reset, after 1/300th of that reset time, the previous CLEAN shot has already left the barrel.

Then you go on to talk about out shooting an electro with an RT? Talk about hypocritical.. R/T.. Reactive Trigger.. Two shots per pull (true R/T)... Not to mention the RT effect where you HOLD the trigger in just the right way and it just goes FULL AUTO. What is this about 'cheater modes'?
All in all your argument made no sense and has no empirical data to back up your claims.
Are there cheater modes? Yes, but semi is semi is semi.

[BigEvil]

I love paintball guns and am a giant gun whore. I love them all.. Dye, PE, Smart Parts, Wgp, WDP, Mac Dev, Bob Long, Empire, Zodiac ect ect ect (yes I own or have owned them all.. ) I ALWAYS, ALWAYS gravitate back to either my Warped Xmag or my E90.

[Tropical Life]

Honestly it's either your a fan to the emag or not and you will know it once you see it. Same thing with lookin at a old school mustang and looking at a new school mustang. Both will get the job done.

[Nobody]

real men don't care about the weight, cause we have things called muscles...

better is a subjective question. Gordon has an opposite opinion, cause he likes to start shtuff. though they are heavier, so what? you can guarantee no chops with a L10. eyes and electronics can go bad, never heard of a L10 going bad. there are certainly cheaper alternatives, but that's like comparing a Chrysler K car or any other mass produced cheap vehicle;Kia, Geo, whatever(the Ion of the paintball world) to a McLaren F1. they are both cars, but somehow most people will pick the F1 over the K car.

plus, its fun to walk onto the field with an emag and show the people not only what a Emag can do, but show them that a gun that is older than a majority of the players can keep up with nothing more than what it started with.

[GoatBoy]

Is this the same person that posted roughly the same question on MCB?

Gun weight matters. How much is significant is up to your play style, but it affects snapshooting ability as well as fatigue over the long haul.

L10 setups can go "bad". They can decide to go down a carrier mid-game, which causes erratic velocity and obviously loss of air. L10 tuning is somewhat particular to set conditions, and when you change those conditions, you might have to re-tune. For instance, changing paint/barrel/velocity. You can tune the L10 to a conservative setting, but then you lose the max benefit. I'm a huge fan of the L10 but I see no reason to be quite so sanguine about it.

As far as I can tell, there are only two functional reasons to go for an E-Mag:

1. Warp capability. A clean warp setup isn't available on other electros.
2. Mech mode.

If you don't care about these, then I don't see the point. Maybe related to #1 is modifiability (which might not actually be a real word).

[Nobody]

L10 setups can go "bad". They can decide to go down a carrier mid-game, which causes erratic velocity and obviously loss of air. L10 tuning is somewhat particular to set conditions, and when you change those conditions, you might have to re-tune. For instance, changing paint/barrel/velocity. You can tune the L10 to a conservative setting, but then you lose the max benefit. I'm a huge fan of the L10 but I see no reason to be quite so sanguine about it.

well, goatboy has heard of my classic mag already, but i have yet to adjust anything in my L10 in about 10 years. don't know what i did, and it could just be that, something i did to have a miracle setup, but what i say is the truth. to me its a set and go and don't mess with it. i went more of a conservative method(or the original setup, not the softest on paint, but still haven't broken paint.

but back to the original question. if you like mags, and want them faster or better or more consistent, they can be just that. its just like players who use old brass, or KPs, or cockers. they use what they like and it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. its in your hands, it should only mattre to you. to get an elimination, it takes one ball. that hit doesn't care if it came out of a $10 walmart/kmart special or a $2000 custom gun. get one, or don't. its only your money.

[BigEvil]

Plus you can set them on fire and they keep working

[Patron God of Pirates]

LOL WUT?

People think of a switch pull as a digital 1 or 0. This is not the case. Software can and does set a threshold for the voltage pull at which a signal is considered a 1 or a 0. Example: the micro controller I used to set up my switch listener defaults to 1.5v on a 5v (in actuality a 3.5v) pin. Above 1.5v and it is considered a 1, below, a 0. To date, every electro I have tested (15 so far) reports more signals to the solenoid than signals from the switch. They achieve this by lowering the threshold during higher rates of fire. This listens for switch noise and reports false signals. Further, they all hold multiple shots in queue during high rof. Further they all average out the signals to produce a consistent rof. The last part is IMO a necessity preventing human control interfering with the markers mechanical limitations. The end result is markers that fire more than you pull the trigger, fire when you are not pulling the trigger, and fire only when all of the markers systems are prepared to do so. No need to learn the trigger, software does it for you.

Modern electros do not read trigger pulls to shoot. They read trigger pulls to learn the intent of the shooter so they can handle the dirty work. I can and have proven this. I'm not sharing my results (because the only industry entity that I brought this up to threatened to sue me and I simply don't care enough [and can't afford] to take it that far). I did the testing to validate my theories for my own purposes. If you would like to test it as well I can tell you how.

Further, you don't need empirical data. Logic alone will tell you that "cheating" is the inevitable result of competition among electronic marker manufacturers. It costs tens of thousands of dollars to R&D a new valve/bolt system. It costs about 10 seconds worth of man hours to program your boards to lower the voltage threshold during X cps. And nobody will bust them because the "pro" leagues are owned by the industry. Low cost improvement with zero chance of backlash. Who wouldn't do it?

As far as the RT thing goes. A "response trigger" does what you are talking about. A "runaway trigger" such as a heavily shimmed ULT will shot itself. But a "Reactive Trigger" merely pushes back on your finger. It does not cycle the sear both ways for you. You have to maintain positive pressure against the trigger to cycle it and relax enough between shots to let it push you back. This is 1 pull 1 shot even if it is sickening easy to accomplish. Is it a grey area? Sure. But compared to the egregious cheating being done by the electro's it's nothing.

Bloopers: Yes. In some cases (particularly with a tight bore fit) the shot that chuffed does not even make it out of the barrel at all.

[El Zilcho]

Bloopers: Yes. In some cases (particularly with a tight bore fit) the shot that chuffed does not even make it out of the barrel at all.

I can attest to this, I had a poorly tuned LX and a .678 Eigelbarrel, did not make for a good combination.

[Spider-TW]

I love paintball guns and am a giant gun whore. I love them all.. Dye, PE, Smart Parts, Wgp, WDP, Mac Dev, Bob Long, Empire, Zodiac ect ect ect (yes I own or have owned them all.. ) I ALWAYS, ALWAYS gravitate back to either my Warped Xmag or my E90.

I haven't owned them all, but it's just as bad when I set out to design my own marker, go round with this or that, and then conclude that I have basically ended up with a mag again. New markers are more integrated and lighter, but both of those features have their trade offs that I'm not sold on.

[mpsd]

I have played the Brazilian Paintball Cup back in 2006 with mine. I used it as my main one for years and I can still do so if I chose to. It keeps up with modern day laser tits shooting space dil.dos just nice hahahahaha Get one, install the XMOD software on it and be happy.

As for the weight, it all depends on how you assemble it. I had mine with a CF body, CF battery pack, CF barrel, ULE frame and a Shadow rail that weighted in at 2 pounds. Today I changed it to a Karta body and rail (ULE´d) and it is still super light.

[2xFast]

Yeah, I started a similiar one over at MCB. Thought I'd try over there for some possibly less biased answers

MPSD do you have any pictures of your 2lb setup? I'd be particularly interested in the CF battery pack. Was it just a housing change or did you switch over to lithium ion batteries as well?

I think I've seen a couple of the CF bodies...looks like they hacked off the non critical section of the ULE body and replaced it with a CF tube...is that about the long and the short of it?

Overall I'm leaning heavily towards Emag. I'm never going to play competitively...might as well have something funky in my hands right?

...now I just need to put the cash together.

[blackdeath1k]

Heck. I don't even use an emag. I go older than that. I use a 97 automagrt that I bought back then. Its been upgraded to a Ygrip and a foamie L7 bolt vs the hard nose. I do not have a killer input pressure for reactivity. And I play against mostly GEOS when I play. Not felt outgunned yet. There's are lighter. But if your in shape that shouldn't be an issue until day 2 or 3 of a scenario. That's the only time I really wished it was lighter. Get what makes you wet every time you play with it.

[GRimm]

Its funny, I mainly play with my emag or my xmag and I am almost always shooting in mech mode (every now and then I'll flip it to E and have some fun, albeit rarely). What I love the most about them is how they feel. Every time I pick them up it just feels perfect in my hands. I love they way the feel when shooting, the way they sound, they way they look. I love the attention they bring as well, passing people and hearing them talking to each other, "Sweet an xmag!" or my favorite "what the heck it that?". As long as I play paintball I will be shooting an e/xmag

[mpsd]

Yeah, I started a similiar one over at MCB. Thought I'd try over there for some possibly less biased answers

MPSD do you have any pictures of your 2lb setup? I'd be particularly interested in the CF battery pack. Was it just a housing change or did you switch over to lithium ion batteries as well?

I think I've seen a couple of the CF bodies...looks like they hacked off the non critical section of the ULE body and replaced it with a CF tube...is that about the long and the short of it?

Overall I'm leaning heavily towards Emag. I'm never going to play competitively...might as well have something funky in my hands right?

...now I just need to put the cash together.

Here are some pics of it:



And here is how it looks like today:


The battery pack was custom made for me at a car tuning shop here in Brazil, years ago. The battery itself is a custom one but not a lithium ion one. Weights the same as the original.