My idea (or half idea) for a closed bolt automag

[InvisibleBill]

Okay, I am fairly new too mags, and I am not to techy, but I had an idea for a closed bolt mag. My idea was that you could use an air powered ram (not sure what the tech term is) that is using air from the reg to close the bolt. When the marker is gassed up, the air that enters the air chamber would also push the ram forward, moving the bolt into the barrel. then, when the marker was fired, the air chamber and ram would be emptied of air, and the bolt spring would push the bolt back, feeding another ball into the barrel. Then, air fills the chamber and ram, pushing the bolt forward.
I am not sure if this would work, so any opinion and advice would be accepted. I have looked at Punishers PneuMag, which is partly why my mind started thinking about this, though I thought that if the three way wasn't needed, it would be more stable performance and maintance wise. Thanks IB.

[sniper1rfa]

the problem lies in the fact that the mag empties the dump chamber as soon as the bolt is closed. to change that would be to change the base of the operation of the mag.

[InvisibleBill]

hmmm. I didn't think about that. I'll think some more. Thanks. IB.

[Miscue]

There is no reason to convert any gun to closed bolt. Closed bolt offers ZERO advantages.

[thei3ug]

Originally posted by Miscue
There is no reason to convert any gun to closed bolt. Closed bolt offers ZERO advantages.

There's no reason to do a lot of the things in paintball. It's still an interesting tinker project.

[Have Blue]

I disagree that closed bolt offers no advantages - A closed bolt system should provide a more stable firing platfrom, as you have less mass being flung around before the ball is actually fired - compare the moving mass of a Viking (bolt and hammer) vs. an Excalibur (just the hammer).

Additionally, it would seem to me that a closed bolt system could theoretically be more consistent (in velocity) than an open bolt system. I say this because in an open bolt system, the ball is chambered and fired in the same process. It's possible that changes in ball orientation could affect how easily the ball is chambered, thus using different amounts of energy. This differing energy that gets robbed from the chambering portion of the sequence means a different amount of energy available for the firing portion of the sequence.

[InvisibleBill]

Thanks for standing up for closed bolt guns. I agree, they are more stable. Since the bolt is closed when the gas is released, your velocity will be more consistant from shot to shot in cockers and the like, unlike say, an angel or bushmaster.
Miscue:Think about how cockers are known for their accuracy. Wouldn't that be awesome if the mag had killer accuracy and was super easy to maintain?
Anyway, if any one has anymore help or comments, I would like to hear them. Thanks IB.

[sniper1rfa]

oh come on, open bolt guns can be just as accurate as closed, and vise versa. to prove this, i took my mayhem (closed/dye excel) and put three shots on top of each other at about 30 yds. i then took a friends mag and put three shots on top of each other on the same board. did the same with an impulse, and a cocker. bols position has been proved time and time again to be irrelevent.

now, saying that, converting a mag to closed bolt would be SWEET, just because it would take some hard work and thought.

[InvisibleBill]

I agree, there is not much of difference in accuracy at 30 yds. But what about at 50 yds? Then that extra gas that doesn't go down the barrel might mean the difference between an elimination and a miss. But again, it is possible to use a "carpet bombing" (spray and pray) technique to circumvent the whole accuracy agruement, but it is fun to get those one shot eliminations:). By the way sniper1rfa, do you like the impluse? My friend was looking into one...Thanks, IB.

[sniper1rfa]

actually, i hate them. sloppiest trigger ive ever pulled.

[Have Blue]

I must agree with sniper1fa - note that I never stated that closed bolt guns are more accurate, as that's patently untrue - they should exhibit the very same accuracy as an open bolt gun. Assuming that the guns are clamped down, that is. It's reasonable to say that one gun might be more accurate than another in the hands of a certain player because that player may be able to exercise less control on how much a gun jumps around when shooting.

[Kweasi]

I don't buy this idea that open-bolt marker "jostle" the paint more than closed-bolt and hense closed-bolts are more consistent.

Any "jostle" only exists in the breech and once the ball is in the barrel it's irrelevent. And let's not forget that the ball is in the barrel before the air-charge sends it on it's way in either set-up. Essentially, ALL markers fire from a closed-bolt. The only difference in each operating system is how they wait to recieve the ball before firing.

-Kweasi

[Gambit22]

I have to go against the recoil argument as well. In paintball markers there isn't enough mass moving to make much of a difference. In addition, before the ball is a fired in an Autococker, the striker moves and hits the valve, therefore we still have moving mass before the ball is fired. In addition we have to remember that the mass of the moving parts is tiny compared to the overall mass of the entire setup, even more so if we include the tank and the full hopper in the total mass.

[Have Blue]

There isn't enough moving mass to make a difference? Obviously you've never fired a VM-68 :)

[Gambit22]

Well that one I'll give you :)