My idea (or half idea) for a closed bolt automag

[FreshmanBob]

Originally posted by The Creature
we both used PMI premium paint for our tests (i had the correct freak incert and it is the same bore size as the J&J).

I hate to tell you, but the freak inserts labeling isn't always accurate, usually pretty off. Try doing the same test with a j&j.

[The Creature]

i did it with 4 different incerts, the 684, 685, 687 and 689. those were the closet matching bore sizes. the 687 worked the best and yeilded the best results. however, none of them compared to the cocker at approximately 50 yards. i do know what i am doing, i am not some newbie feeding the hype.

[The Creature]

also, the spyders (compact, xtra, flash) and tippmann 98 custom had the J&J ceramic barrel...same one as the cocker only different threading...and yet they did not come close to the cocker at even 40 yards, explain that.

[The Creature]

Originally posted by FreshmanBob
As far as the moving mass goes, someone do me a favor an weigh an autococker hammer and an automag bolt, i doubt there will be much difference..

for a regular level 7 bolt i bet there won't be much of a difference, but as for the level 10 bolt it would be way lighter. i will test it out next time i visit my friend.

[Coaster]

The creature, were you shooting these guns over a crono?

[The Creature]

the cocker was having a bit of trouble keeping a steady velocity because it was new and the o-rings had not been worn in...however later in the day the gun was finally getting a steady reading over the crono of between 280-290 fps. my minimag was shooting consistantly between 293-297. the tippmann was between 275-290. the spyder compact was all over the place. the xtra about 277 (thats about the average cause it did jump high and low once or twice). and the flash at around 275-290.

the velocity jumps between each gun do play a role in the accuracy, however that is part of the defect of each gun and it must be taken into consideration. my mag was shooting PERFECTLY all day keeping within 4 feet per second with each shot. mags deffinently deserve a lot of credit for being so consistant because it really helps a lot. after the o-rings on the cocker were worn in the velocity spikes stopped and it stayed consistant at around 280-290.

[The Creature]

so are you guys done trying to find flaws in my test or can you simply not accept the fact that cockers are a more accurate gun because of their better and more efficient design? before you nit-pick and say "thats crap" why don't you go try it for yourself? you can be happy with your spyder or tippmann, they are good and reliable guns, however the cocker will preform better, as would an impy, angel or bushy. they are just better guns, and when the cocker is working properly it is the better gun of the group. if you want a perfect blend of speed, accuracy and distance then get an angel...if you want the most superior range and accuracy, then get a cocker. if you want to have a gun you can rely on to work and not have to worry about breaking or having to adjust, and will last, then get a mag. if you do not want to empty your wallet on a gun, then get a spyder. that is the way it is...stop trying to give explinations as to why "all guns were created equil" because they are not!

[Have Blue]

Actually, I have bench mounted a cocker right next to a mag, chronied them, and tested their shot patterns at 4 different ranges (using a large gridded board as a target, noting the impact of each shot). There was no noticable difference between the two.

[FreshmanBob]

Again, until you use a J&J barrel on the mag, use the same pressure regulating system on all the gun's and give people more than a day or two to reply, I'm not convinced. Especially seeing how I an many others have had different experiance.

I will give you that a spyder and tippman won't be very accurate, but that is the whole moving mass theory. Most other somewhat high end guns should shoot pretty much the same.

[The Creature]

you are so pathetic...what you are asking me to do is make all the guns created EQUAL and they are NOT so stop asking me to do it.

you could put all the upgrades in the world on a spyder, but in the end it will still be a SPYDER...it has a limit to the preformance it can achieve...the cocker's limit is much much higher, even straight out of the box stock. that is the point i am trying to make.

[Have Blue]

I must agree with FreshmanBob - it is imperative that components which may affect the ball's flight must be matched as well as possible between the guns being tested. Otherwise, how can you claim that it was the magic pixies in the cocker and not the barrel? When I did my tests, I went out and purchased 2 Armson barrels and 2 PMI ceramics in the same length for each gun. To do otherwise is to knowingly run a flawed experiment.

[The Creature]

you people annoy the hell out of me...i simply do not understand why it is so impossible for you to accept the fact cockers are the most accurate guns on the market. you give me this crap about flawed tests and paint/barrel match, then when i say the tippmann and spyder had the same barrel you give me this "mass" crap...it's true, and that is why the gun is not as effecient as a cocker. the closed bolt system is one of the most amazing things paintball has ever seen...the drawback to it is the fact they are complicated and can break easily. it seriously is like talking to a group of brick walls in here. i am a mag owner, and i love my mag, however the accuracy is simply not as good as the cocker's, and never will be, unless you turned it into a cocker (i.e. the closed bolt mag idea).

[Coaster]

if the accuracy is so good at long ranges with cockers, why doesn't Bud Orr say that in his adds? Because he knows the truth, and it would hurt him financialy if he did.

[Have Blue]

why it is so impossible for you to accept the fact cockers are the most accurate guns on the market

Because as I mentioned above, I did the experiment, and both guns shot with equal accuracy. That is why I cannot accept the 'fact' that cockers are more accurate. It's called science.

[magman007]

ok, listen "the Creature"

First off, you did not do the test in a controlled enviroment. Now i dont mean no wind, perfect whether stuff, i mean you didnt try to test one variable. You added too many variables and came up with a load of crap.

First off, you didnt use the same barrel to test. I dont really care about that, you can try it.

Second off, you were holding the paintball markers. Are you stupid? your friend is probabally a better shot than you, thats all! IF you wanted to test accuarcy you should have bench mounted the markers. Hence waht Have Blue did.

Third off, was the cocker running on co2? was the mag running on C02? did you use the same tanks?

Also you said the cocker was shooting irradically, how do you know it didnt start to act up again?


fourth off, you seem way to influenced by hype, and that you did not research your material. go look on warpig, they did a closebolt vs open bolt comparison and found no difference.

Also i ask you, why are some of the most popular markers open bolted? (Angel, timmy, mag, bushy, impy....) if it was so bad, do you think people would use them? do you think companies would spend thousands of dollars producing something that wasnt goping to satisy the consumer?

Let me guess, you think the low pressure of the cocker makes it accurate also? well lets see, the mag is LP too! ha ha. give it up man, ok? we know the facts, and you do not have them. you need to do your reaserch. please, come back when you know what you are talking about