Just got all my gear back from AGD. Unsatisified with the results.

[Smokee_2_7]

Ok, I had my warm-up on flatline re-building today. My customer was in earlier today. Even though I didnt have the parts kits in yet, I offered to go ahead and take down his reg. and give it a good cleaning, and replace what parts I could find so hopefully he would have a system that he could at least play with tomorrow.

His had the WORST shoot down of all 3 flatlines in question. I Disassembled the whole reg. Changed out the On/off oring, the 2 o-rings on the shaft, the reg seat, the reg piston o-ring, and cleaned the mess out of the whole system. Im sure you can imagine what I found inside. . . it was absolutely FILTHY. Removal of old teflon tape and dried crusty locktite from the threads was the most time consuming, while the crusty corrosion -looking stuff on the on/off shaft coming in second.

All things said and done, The system works MUCH better. On his single trigger standard mag, It seems flawless. On my retromags, it seems just a little bit slow. Here's what I think the remaining problems are. (BlackVCG, your comments on the following are highly valued)




1. The o-rings that I had to put in. They came from an off brand RT parts kit. I had one of these o-rings completely jam up my retromag - - - so I do believe they may be the remaining problem.

2. What looks like the regulator spring. (visible through the small holes behind the High pressure gauge and the fill nipple)

While cleaning off tape and locktite with a dental pick, Inoticed that there was a little bit of crud in the spring area. I'm sure that there is- - - as dirty as the fill nipple area was, Im sure this junk is all inside the tank, and through that part of the regulator. Is it possible that this spring could need replacement? I am almost positive that It could benifit from a good cleaning.

From the looks of it, I cant get in to that area and clean the spring without removing teh whole regulator from the tank. Is that correct? Additionally, (other than having the tank completely drained) what procedures should I use to remove the regulator from the bottle? I have worked extensivly of CO2 bottles and valve removal/ replacement- - - but I have not taken a reg off of a HPA bottle yet.

I assume the process would be similar, but Assuming can be a very bad thing - - - that's why Im asking questions here first. I am thinking that the reg is screwed into the bottle with the assistance of an o-ring and some red locktite.

Usually, a couple strap wrenches are what I need to separate a c02 valve from the tank. Same process here?

What can I expect to see on the inside? How will I be able to get to the spring? What parts may need replacement?

Finally, I am assuming that a replacement of the tank o-ring, removal of old red locktite from the threads AND from the bottle,(what will be the best way to clean out the inside of the bottle?) re-application of the aforementioned locktite, firm re-screwing, and a 24 hr setting period prior to a very cautious filling to a low pressure to test for leaks is the best way to go about putting the reg. back on the tank.


I feel confident in my ability to do this. I have re-built regulators on other HPA systems before with good results, and have lots of experience removing and replacing valves on C02 tanks. However, I always ask for advice of others that have done this procedure successfully BEFORE I attempt it myself.

any hints or things to look out for are greatly appreciated.


Carl

[BlackVCG]

Carl-

First of all, good to see you're taking the time to do this on your own. It's the only way to learn how to do things yourself so down the road you can take care of problems when they arise.

You are correct, in order to take out the spring and the on/off valve you need to unscrew the reg. from the tank. The easiest way for you to do this is use a strap wrench on the tank and a 1/8" NPT fitting welded onto a hardened steel rod. Use that rod as a breaker bar, thread it into one of the ports and break the reg. loose. Be SURE to make an alignment mark on the neck of the tank so you know how far you need to torque it when you put it back on. I use the burst disk nut as the alignment on the reg. and make a mark on the tank neck that is in the center of the burst disk nut.

There is NO thread sealer used on the reg. threads. Don't put any on when you put it back on. As long as there's some grease/oil on the reg o-ring and it's properly torqued, it will be fine.

Once it's off, you'll see an internal C-Clip from the back side and a star tooth washer. Take out the C-Clip and the washer and spring will drop out. You might need to tap the on/off valve out from the front side since the o-ring holds it in.

Clean off all the parts, clean out the inside housing of the reg. neck and then reassemble it. It would be a good idea to wait until you get your factory AGD parts so you can replace the on/off o-ring with a factory part when you reassemble it. Just blow out the tank with air from a regular 150psi air compressor. Don't try to wash it out.

Once you get it fully cleaned out, and replace all the o-rings with AGD ones, it will be working fine.

[Smokee_2_7]

UPDATE

Ok, yesterday I got the flatline parts kits in from AGD and proceded to rebuild the regulators myself. I did both of my flatlines yesterday afternoon. It took me about 5 hours total. Each regulaor was removed from the bottle, COMPLETELY cleaned inside and out, and ALL seals replaced.


Before i get in to the other details, let me point out somthing weird about the flatline parts kits.

First off, the o-ring used for the reg. seat is the same as the one used in the on/off. This was verified when I broke down the regs. Both of the o-rings were the same.

The parts kit only contained one of these o-rings. In place of the other one, It included a "small o-ring" (thats what the part list said.) looks like the lil' guy from inside the R/T on/off brass peice.

This o-ring dose not fit anywhere in the system. First I thought there was a mistake- - -that the 2 idential o-rings i took out of the reg was wrong. . that one of them should have been the "small o-ring.". Nope. The only place where the "small 0-ring" could go is on the reg seat. It will fit, and It actually LOOKs like a better fit than the bigger one that goes there. lol however, it dosent work. On the initial gas up for that one, using that Small o-ring promptly caused me to blow my Output pressure gauge.

I replaced with another larger one, and everything was cool. That kind of made me uneasy, that I had a FACTORY parts kit, with a part left over, that looks like it didnt fit in the system.

Well, actually 2 parts that didnt fit in the system. The C-clip included in the parts kits (remember I ordered 3) is much larger than the one in the tanks. The new ones wont fit. No biggie, It just needed cleaning, not replacing.


Interestingly enough, This was the first time these regulators had been opened up since I got them back from AGD- - and they were FILTHY inside. It looked like the tech that was working on them for me just serviced the low pressure side of the system. The on/off shaft was NASTY looking it was so dirty, as well as the spring and all that fun stuff on the tank side of the system.

Each tank took me a little over 2 hrs to rebuild.

Total, I went through about 50-60 q-tips, 30 or so paper towels, and about 4 oz. of rubbing alcohol and water mix.


After rebuild, my initial testing shows the tanks working FLAWLESSLY. I put each tank onto my emag, flipped it to hybrid, put the input pressure to about 900, and proceded to hammer the crap out of the trigger. NO DROPOFF. Problems fixed. On an additional note, I had my manager take a run on the emag trigger. This was the closest thing that he had shot to a 'normal' functioning emag (still have to send the Emag back in. . ) Previously he always gave me crap about being a mag shooter. Kept saying the emag was a brick. And, he thought the trigger on it sucked before (when it turned out the tank was just sucking terribly.)
Well, i had him take a walk on it. His jaw hit the floor, and he started laughing. Then, he said that he just might have to get one of these things. - - -What you have to realize is that this is like a "moses parting the red sea" kinda miracle for him to say that. HEHEHEHE. i was happy.



So, back to the point of this thread. Here's the status of all the problems listed in the initial post, and what has fixed the problems.
Remember, when this thread was started, All this equipment had JUST come out of the box- - - from being serviced from AGD. And ALL of it had problems.

Flatline tanks.
- - - problem fixed myself. Cost me 2 parts kits, and about 5 hours for me to rebuild and service both systems. It was noted that the systems were EXTREMELY dirty, and looked like they had not been serviced at all.


Retromag#1.
small internal leak problem fixed myself.
Turns out an on/off oring was the culprit. I opened it up, and the o-ring looked like it had been there a while. Aparently not replaced when it went in to AGD. Poped a new one in and she shoots fine.

Retromag #2. (z-grip)
Trigger rod was actually too short when I got it back. (they put a new sear in, and the rod just BARELY stuck out of the frame.)
Fixed myself. DID check with AGD about unscrewing the trigger rod just a bit. Gun functions fine now.

Emag.
The only way I can fix this myself is to get a new trigger frame for the gun. Unfortunately, I dont think I can get a new one for less that too much money. lol.

This one is going to be sent BACK to AGD. This time I'm going to remove the trigger pin (which is supposed to be replaced) so it's not overlooked again. I am also going to stick a post-it note on the threads that are stripped out, so that cant be overlooked.
I just wish there was some way for me to get a new trigger frame for cheap so I could do it myself.




I still love AGD products, however I have come to the conclusion that if I want somthing done right, I need to learn how to do it myself. Only rely on someone else to fix it as a LAST resort.


Happy that His gear is 99% back to where it should be,

Carl

[joeyjoe367]

That's really great to hear :) I got a used flatline a little while ago an just sent it off to be serviced due to a busted HP gauge and a few odd leaks.

I'll have to get a FLatline parts kit and keep it in my gearbag just in case :)

I bought a set of belt/grip wrenches a while ago to take apart an apoc. system i had (traded for the Flatline), and it looks like they may get to be used again :)

[joeyjoe367]

Oh, and I noticed while I'm shooting, the LP Output gauge sometimes takes a sec. to go back to the pressure it was origeonally at.

...does that mean that there's drop-off? Because I don't seem to notice it in rapid-fire (10+bps).

[Smokee_2_7]

Well, the output gauge taking a second to go all the way up is a symptom, however it could just be due to a faulty gauge. If you can hammer on the trigger and there is no dropoff in shots (also noted by a distinct change in the sound of the gun firing) I'd just leave it alone for now.