Any of you guys want to fight? Lets have a brawl. Its the endless debate.....

[robspectre]

Ok guys. I was on a thread on the traders forum that turned into a big argument about cocker/shocker/matrix accuracy compared to Angel/mag/ accuracy (and range). Let fight the enless fight. Lets see what you guys think.

I personally do NOT believe all markers shooting the same velocity with matching paint to barrel match shoot the same. Dont get me wrong...I love my emag and its personally my favorite marker. I just dont believe its as accurate or shoots as long as my sfl cocker. Now I know the masses disagree with me.

You know the what I believe. I know Tom is the ultimate brain and in all his infinate wisdom he has a theory about this. Also, if im not mistaken....in a recent apg magazine he stated that LOW PRESSURE does not exist. Hmmmmm......If thats true like he says.....all markers have an instant velocity of 50000 fps. If im mistaken please let me know. Anyways....How come the shockers, tricked cockers, and matrix as well as a few others have so much better range and accuracy. Now I know many of you if not all of you will agree with Tom. But Ive owned most of the upper end markers out there and I have seen a difference.

Did anybody put into account about bolt pressure/speed? The emag bolt is supper fast and I believe it couses ball destortion. And if LOW PRESSURE does not exist....why have a dwell? What im saying is, if the low pressure theory doesnt exist, a dwell would be unneeded. The dwell is designed to allow more air (volume) into the ball breach to move the ball. With lower pressure you need more air volume. Lower pressure equals more gas usage. Now since Ive installed the level 10 bolt i have noticed a bit more gas usage. I have not really had a good day of play with it so it may now be just as accurate. If you guys have noticed any difference let me know.

Like I stated earlier the bolt speed is super fast on the emag. Doesnt the emag bolt move at about 20 fps? The cockers move at 6 fps right? Would this make a differance. Now dont get me wrong. Im not saying Worr Games have a better product. They make fine markers but I like my mags better. The exchange is volume over extreme accuracy. Lots of people say cocker accuracy is false. Im hear to disagree. As for the shocker.....extreme accuracy. So also with the matrix and Nasty impulse (i say nasty because its the best impulse i have ever owned).

Anyways.....LETS FIGHT!!!

I want to see what you guys think. Its all for fun. Im not really looking to start a WWF event here or nothing but a lil'bit of violence and nashing of teeth never hurt anybody...LOL. Really guys, lets see what you think. I will probably never change any theories you guys have and I will probably not change my mind but who cares. Lets have fun. This argument has been going on ever since the beginning.

Oh....and Tom is the man. I personally think he has the best run company out today. With people like Jon Comprado and the rest of the crew you just cant ask for more. Not only does AGD develope some of the best markers out there but the service after the sale is the best. You guys rock. And dont get me wrong with this thread......its just what I think and I want to start a fight.....LOL. You guys be cool.
Your Friend.....robspectre (Robby Laypath)

[toymyster]

You will believe what you will believe despite what anyone else says or the evidence they show!! I'm not going to fight you, there's no money in it!!!

[deded]

i like fighting and everything.... but to me its already over, and has nothing to do with tom, its about physics.

Saying that a cocker shooting 300 fps will shoot farther than a mag shooting 300 fps is like saying that a pound of bricks is heavier than a pound of feathers.

fps

feet
per
second

say "feet per second" 10 times.

this means that the paintball will fly 300 feet for every second that it is in the air. Unless your marker is using some form of spin to keep it up, the time that it is in the air is proportional not to the marker that it came from, not to the elves in the gun, and not to tom kaye.... but to gravity. So unless gravity has less effect on paintballs that come from cockers, itll go the same distance, and the range will be equal.

and since you asked for a fight and not a conversation... im gonna take a guess and say that you've never been in a physics classroom before, nor has anyone that says that gun X shoots farther than gun Y @ the same fps.

[badfish314]

let's do it then..

I am going to get together w/ some of my friend who shoot mags.We will chrono at 280fps,use the same freak insert,and same bag of diablo hellfire. I will set the markers on a rest at a 15 degree angle and average out 100 shots w/ both markers. We will measure distance and in another test accuracy. It wont be indoors unfortunatley, but aleast both markers will suffer accordingly. We will pit a 2k2 cocker shooting at 250psi. against a newer minimag. My mag friends are bigger than me so we will have no bias toward my cocker. Hellfire is a good quality paint ,which is small and very heavy, as far as paintballs go. It is very round and the balls have no noticable seams. I will be using a freak as that is the only barrel we have in common 14" all american tip. We will both use a pmi 88ci 4500 tank, w/ 850 output pressure. Waiting 5 seconds between shots, so my cocker can "recharge". My money is on my cocker...any bets?

[AGD]

HEY!! WAIT a minute!! I am the all knowing TOM KAYE and I DO control gravity!! I made it the same for everyone so there would be no complaining.

Send your donations to,

AGD

[Miscue]

Har Har. :)

[yeahthatsme]

[email protected] thats great....

[pballguy17]

"one's own mind is ALWAYS stronger than the will of another."

If someone tells u something, an du belive it, and TRUELY belive, nothing anyone can say or do will change ur mind. And furthermore u urself will think u see a diffrance.

U said u were shooting farther than other high end guns... was the wind behind u? mayb they weren't arching their guns up high enough? mayb they don't have any idea how to play paintball and their mommy bought them the gun and they don't kno what the hell to do with it? mayb their guns are really incosistant and they set their FPS to 250.

U statement doesn't show much fact. OUR'S is proven by commen sence AND logic AND physics.

also alightly off topic a bullet fired from a gun, will hit the ground the same time as a bullet droped from the same height. what that means is if u fire a gun and drop a bullet at the same time and same heigt, (given now the gun was at a stright angle) they hit the ground at the same time. try it with paintball. find a long feild, shoot a paintall flat, and drop a paintball. gravity is pulling them at the same time. it will b of the amount of time the ball takes to leave the barrel, b/c gravity isn't pulling it down in the barrel.

If the above is tru, than it doesn't matter what gun it came out of, it's going to drop at the same speed 3.4 m/s if i recall from skol (correct me if i'm wrong) so if every paintball drops at the same speed, and they leave the barrel at the same speed what other thing can effect it? the magic elves in closed bolt guns? gotta b, no other explnatino for it

[badfish314]

no magic elves...no "seeing" what I want to see

The shots will be measured. Not "man that went really far". This isn't going to be totally scientific, as I could care less which marker shoots farter,yet to have fun with. I am not spending 40 billion dollars to figure out the square root of infinity divided by 3.14.(I don't care if there is an answer to that either). I am just trying to have some fun w/ half a case of hellfire. A question though...in relation to spin on balls shot out of different markers. When getting shot at..balls whizzing overhead...why do cocker and shocker shot balls sound different. Maybe it's just me, maybe not. I play rec all the time w/ the same guys and I can tell who is shooting at me by the "sound" of the balls. In my opinion they have a whizz sound to them. Maybe you should have a sound test of different markers using the same balls at the same fps. I don't have the resources for that though. As for the magical elves...what's up with that? As for the sound of the balls, I am not a ninja, Jedi,or daredevil. I have no enhanced senses, not an alien,or a mutant. They just sound different to me. Here we go......flame on.

[dansim]

[cphilip]

The "all knowing Tom kaye" huh? Well what am I thinking now Tom?

We have done this subject over and over rob and I guess and its a good one. But not sure I even care to "fight" over it. All I would have to do was wait on you and then do a search for some gem to counteract you and post that up.

[obsolete898]

Hi I'm physics, obviously we haven't met.

[FalconGuy016]

Couldnt the different style of guns operation have a different effect on a paintball? such as a spin (even a slight one) or something on the liquid on the inside of the paintball that could effect it AFTER it leaves the barrel at 300 fps?

[hitech]

Go to your local junior college and take a physics course. Seriously. I did. Then see if you think it's still possible.

[booyah]

been done to death

http://www.pbstar.com/misc-tech/range-debate/

seems someone else did that experiment also... angel bushy and shocker...

-Booyah