Any of you guys want to fight? Lets have a brawl. Its the endless debate.....

[CpSuPeRkId]

Originally posted by FalconGuy016
couldnt different bolts apply the air differently and then effect the paintballs slightly differntly? Im not going for a hueg distance change

not really, the WERM undertoe bolt for impulses claimed to do that. well its not exactly selling right now. it does nothing. now onto my opinion on things. guns all have the same basic trajectory. maybe TINY but unnoticeable spin on a ball now and then from something other than the way the marker shoots. but like i said its unnoticeable. cockers do not shoot more accurately than an angel. i have shotten cockers that were as bad as a blowback and some that shoot as straight as a dart. its all on how it was set up with paint and barrel at that particular time. warpig did the proving test using the SAME GUN by converting it from open bolt to closed bolt. no difference and it turned out that the open bolt happened to have a better shot grouping too. that doesnt mean its more accurate than closed bolt. i mean cmon an open bolt shoots the same way as a closed bolt gun. it shoots when the bolt is in the closed position. so for you closed bolt nuts out there, ITS PROVEN, DONE, FINISHED, PERIOD. as for each individual guns from angel to mag to cocker. like i said before they might have an unnoticeable difference that could be caused by anything besides the actual method of firing. u know what would prove people wrong and i bet its never been done before? a blind shot test. you make a person wear ear plugs and everything and put a blanket over a marker. make sure they cant tell what it is and pull the trigger. ask them to see which one they saw go further. ill bet all my money that they dont say a cocker, just by chance. they would probably end up saying the angel or mag went further. somebody has to do this and show the results. its a simple test too.

[HoppysMag]

Originally posted by hitech


Look in this picture. Does the paintball slow down?



If that isn't detailed enough you can find a hires picture here (File name is 101.TIF):

http://www.automags.org/~TomAGD/spindata/

BTW, if the egg spins, it spins. Also, the inside of an egg is QUITE different than a paintball. The only thing they have in common is that both contain liquid. However, and egg contains MUCH more than a simple liquid.

ok incase you dont understand what we are saying, wich you dont, the liquid slows the spin, not the ball, and a egg spinning that way is only spinning cause it has no reason to fall... if you try to spin it like a top the liquid slows the spin and the egg falls over... take a glass of water put an ice cube in the middle and turn the glass , notice how the cube stays put... this shows us that the water is also stationary. i really dont think you even care to understand this. the same thing is happening in a paintball... read the last link i posted from "Toms Tech Tips" then you will understand it.

[hitech]

Originally posted by HoppysMag
Ok in case you don't understand what we are saying, which you don't, the liquid slows the spin, not the ball...read the last link I posted from "Toms Tech Tips" then you will understand it.

First off, "spin" isn't a noun. It CAN'T BE anything. The ball is spinning, get it? BTW, in Tom's tech tips he is talking about a different spin rate. At slow rates of spin, based on Toms' testing, it appears the paintball does not slow down much. Also, you are ASSUMING that the reason you can't spin an egg on end is because the liguid is slowing the shell. I say maybe it's because the yolk is bouncing around inside the egg. :)

[shartley]

Originally posted by hitech


First off, "spin" isn't a noun. It CAN'T BE anything. The ball is spinning, get it?

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley

Actually he didn't say it was a noun.

Sure he did:

the liquid slows the spin, not the ball...

He is saying that it slowed the spin, not the ball (ie not the spin on the ball). It has to slow the spin OF something.

And yes, compairing eggs to paintballs is worse than apples to oranges. BTW, I have/had no idea why an egg won't spin on end. That was just another possible reason.

[HoppysMag]

Originally posted by hitech



He is saying that it slowed the spin, not the ball (ie not the spin on the ball).

ya, um you REALLY dont get what im saying, mabey its my poor explaining/ examples... but im saying it slows the BALLS SPIN, not the velocity.

[Retardrice]

ya ya ya

2 guns shooting the same velocity will shoot the same distance...

personally its untrue

many things effect the shot of the ball, and im totally disregarding all random errors that could occur.

mostly, the barrel affects distance because of the type of spin it may but on a ball, for example a tippman flatline WILL shoot farther at 300 fps than pretty much any other gun on the market, this is because of the backspin put on the ball. this does increase distance of the shot. A barrel that puts for-spin on a ball and is 3 inches long, shooting at 300 fps will shoot a paintball shorter than a flatline will.. period.

the velocity of the paintball, lets say 300 fps is MUZZLE VELOCITY, but what about the following flight of the ball?

and as robspectre said, i also believe that method and operating pressure of a gun also makes a difference.

[MinimagRockin']

Originally posted by HoppysMag


lol im pretty sure back spin would actualy throw the ball into the ground... back spin would give it range.

what? what did I say about back spin? and how can back spin throw a ball into the ground and give it range? I was responding to some of the earlier posts about how a cocker could possibly put some kind of funky spin to the ball and that's how it would shoot farther.

[HoppysMag]

Originally posted by MinimagRockin'


what? what did I say about back spin? and how can back spin throw a ball into the ground and give it range? I was responding to some of the earlier posts about how a cocker could possibly put some kind of funky spin to the ball and that's how it would shoot farther.

sorry typo, ment to say front/ positive spin. it place of the first back spin give me a sec to look back and il try to get a better answer 4 u.

heres, check this out... http://home.attbi.com/~dyrgcmn/pball/trajectory.html if you put in the spin angle as a positive and give it some RPM's you can see the ball slams to the ground prematurly... shoot a ball @ 0 spin and 0 RPM @280fps then try it with full positive spin and full neg, both full RPM... its pretty cool toy.

[halB]

phew, got lots of stuff to correct here

Originally posted by hitech

BTW, if the egg spins, it spins. Also, the inside of an egg is QUITE different than a paintball. The only thing they have in common is that both contain liquid. However, and egg contains MUCH more than a simple liquid.

now where to begin, how bout what makes up an egg?

do you know what the largest cell is?? the yolk in an ostrich egg. MUCH more than a simple liquid?? if its unfertilized, its one big ole single cell. sounds pretty damn simple to me. how many dead cells from bacteria trapped in the paintball are there??

second of all, did i ever say you cant spin a raw egg? apperantly ur looking for what u wanna find, but heres the deal.

if you spin a raw egg and a cooked egg at the same rpms and everything the RAW egg (namatamago for the japanese out there) will slow down WAAAAAAAY before the cooked egg will. and it will stop much much sooner. this is because the liquid inside doesnt spin, and through the miracles of inertia and friction, it stops the outer shell. go do it yourself, boil an egg and spin it next to a raw egg

now what does this have to do with a paintball? well a paintball is liquid filled, similar to an egg. dont go on about how an egg has a different liquid in there ITS IRRELEVANT, its the mere fact that its a liquid. the liquid fill in a paintball slows down the spin (spin of the paintball mr. special english class). sure u can spin a paintball, even longer than a raw egg, its got less liquid compared to surface area of the paintballs semi solid.

ok, how does that apply to closed bolt v open bolt.
well, lets assume the bolt imparts a spin on the ball. lets just assume this. the liquid fill would pretty much stop this slight spin immedietly. and thats without the barrel.

with any barrel bore thats not ridiculously the-balls-fall-through-the-barrel large the paintball contacts the barrel. the moment that happens, spinning ceases (unless of course, you wanna put some oil down ur gun). at least spinning from the bolt. the split second from the paintball being loaded to it being fired stops the paintballs spinning. now then when it fires, the BARREL imparts its OWN spin on the paintball. completely independent of the bolts spin. this spin as soon as it leaves the barrel is slowed down, but due to the incredible turbulence of the air (sailing through the air at 300 fps aint gentle)the spin has enough of an effect to cause the ball to curve. of course dimples in the paint and seams also create their own drag, which creates its own spin.

so yes, lets assume that closed bolt is better than open bolt. so what, unless ur using no barrel with perfect paint that is a perfect sphere that can only be formed in space, its not gonna really matter.

[halB]

Originally posted by Retardrice

the velocity of the paintball, lets say 300 fps is MUZZLE VELOCITY, but what about the following flight of the ball?

now i dont know what ur angle is here, but im assuming that what you are saying is that the bolt continues to affect the ball after it leaves the muzzle.

unless you have a spyder sport with its plastic bolt that breaks off and flies down your barrel after your paintball gun, the bolt cant affect the ball once its in the barrel, or left the barrel.

[halB]

Originally posted by hitech


First off, "spin" isn't a noun. It CAN'T BE anything. The ball is spinning, get it?

[kman]

Whatever. My level 10 automag shoots just as flat, far, and straight as any cocker out there with a good paint to barrel match. Go try it for your self.

[Retardrice]

no the bolt can affect spin of the ball, and psi put on the ball every shot affects the shape of it. Some bolts greatly mishape balls, some dont really, it depends.

[robspectre]

Man oh man......did I start a fight or what? I have seen many different oppinions here. Some I agree with and some I dont. Either way this sure is fun. Im taking my PTP microemag out tommorro and test the theory. I will let you guys know. It want be exact science because i have no high end electronic equipment but I will do my best. I am going to post up both markers (wgp orracle and cole cocker vs. Micro emag) usuing the same bore freak and same length. I am going to crono every shot of the markers so I will know They are shooting at the same speed. They will both be the exact same height of the ground (measuring from the barrell to ground) and shooting at random distances. I will be perfectly honest and if Im wrong I will admit it. But if Im right I am sticking to my guns. Painter32 is also going to be there with me to insure no cheating. I have no reason to take up for wgp over agd. I actually prefer my emag over others. I really hope im wrong because I would like to think my emag is just as accurate as any cocker. So...I will post the results after the test. If im wrong, which i dont think i will be, i will let you know. Im going to test range and accuracy. Realize both markers are completely tricked. Both markers will have 14 in. freaks with matching inserts, high end tanks (warped air and maxxie), and both low pressure bolts (cocker bolts vs. level 10). We are going to know the truth tommorro. See ya tommorro.