How many times can an autococker cycle per second?

[SporksRUS]

Ive only read the first few post on this and it was about how fast a cocker could shoot. My cocker blazes. This attatched video shows a cocker at best, its not mine, take a look! Blazin Fast Autococker in action!

[mag-hatter]

how fast is that shooting and how much $ is put into that thing .

[SporksRUS]

That is a stock Eclipse Eblade autococker. The frame itself can be had for about 400. Its an easy install on any autococker.

[ES13Raven]

Originally posted by Paladin
(GP)On most of the electro setups I've seen on cockers, one of the biggest limitations to cycling speed is the air flow through the 4-way/5-way valve or the barb fittings for the tubing. Same often holds true with mechanical setups as well.

I'm wondering waht fatter hoses will do for how fast the gun can be made to cycle.

(GP) Fatter hoses may help a tad bit but the flow restriction for the automation is in the fittings/hose barbs and the size of the air passages in and out of the 4-way. Many of the 4-way valves currently on the market have very small holes (.050" or less)for the o-rings on the spool to pass over in the body of the valve and only .040" to .050" air passage thru the barb fitting. Common tubing used on 'cockers is .062" ID.

On that note......

What will get better performance.....

A hose from the LPR to the 5-way that is as short as possible, or one with some slack in it so the 5-way has a little more regulated air to draw from?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by ES13Raven
On that note......

What will get better performance.....

A hose from the LPR to the 5-way that is as short as possible, or one with some slack in it so the 5-way has a little more regulated air to draw from?

Not enough gain in volume to make any difference.
Typically, shorter air passages relate to faster transfer speeds.

[Duganator]

I didn't feel like reading through the entire four pages of talk so if someone has already posted autocockers can cycle faster than 10 oh well. They have shot raceguns at 20+bps. This was a very inefficient setup and required completely new internals but it worked. I will try to find the video of it and post a link.

[ES13Raven]

Originally posted by Duganator
This was a very inefficient setup and required completely new internals but it worked.

It was done on a FreeFlow cocker, and the only things changed were the bolt and hammer. The bolt is a RaceGun Delrin, and the hammer a RaceGun bronze :M: hammer.

Also, it was not the new FreeFlow SMC Ram, but an STO Ram. 20 BPS without an ACE as well.

Here is the link to the video:

http://www.raceguns.dk/data/RGP_512x409.avi

[ES13Raven]

Just to bring back an old thread, and share some new data.....

With my Dark FreeFlow set to 300fps, I was able to get my Open time down to 7ms

I used a Pneumadyne Quick Exhaust Valve on the rear port of my SMC FF Ram:


Glenn,

Have you ever tried using these on your Rams?

[Paladin]

Originally posted by ES13Raven
Just to bring back an old thread, and share some new data.....

With my Dark FreeFlow set to 300fps, I was able to get my Open time down to 7ms

I used a Pneumadyne Quick Exhaust Valve on the rear port of my SMC FF Ram:

Glenn,

Have you ever tried using these on your Rams?

No, we haven't yet tried that particular model. The important thing to note here is that such release valves don't really help the ram as much as compensating for limited flow through the vent in the control valve.
Did you try one of those valves on the front of the ram too ? If so, did it make any difference ?

[nerobro]

paladin: You mention that the hose length isn't really a serious determining factor. What about larger ID hose? I'm not sure anythign is available comercially that would suit the situation though.

MOdern cockers don't need LP chambers on the front of thegun. that leaves space to install a small tank of reserve air for the ram...I wonder if it would make a difference in cycle time.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by nerobro
paladin: You mention that the hose length isn't really a serious determining factor. What about larger ID hose? I'm not sure anythign is available comercially that would suit the situation though.

MOdern cockers don't need LP chambers on the front of thegun. that leaves space to install a small tank of reserve air for the ram...I wonder if it would make a difference in cycle time.

A larger ID hose isn't going to do you much good without larger ID ports for it to connect to. The hoses used on most 'cocker front ends are pretty short and not likely to be a problem. However, if you have a piece of tubing with .065" ID that is connected to a hose barb with .050", it cannot move any more air than the smallest orofice in the system. On most pneumatics setups, it is the size of the ports in the hose barbs and the air movement through the pneumatics components that dictate speed of actuation.
The regulator should provide more than enough accumulator chamber to cycle the ram as quickly as possible but it still has to move the air flow through the control valve thus making the control valve and hose barbs most likely to be the culprits in slow cycling speeds.

[ES13Raven]

Originally posted by Paladin
The important thing to note here is that such release valves don't really help the ram as much as compensating for limited flow through the vent in the control valve.
Did you try one of those valves on the front of the ram too ? If so, did it make any difference ?

Well.... I tested my best Open time right before I installed it, and it was 14ms. That is pretty damn low to start, but just by putting on the QEV I was able to lower it to 7ms. Micro Rock was at 85psi.

I'm sure that adding another QEV to the front port will increase speed as well, but I didn't install one on purpose. I wanted to keep the force of the bolt softer.

It should be just as fast as the Open without a QEV, as there is no mainspring force the ram has to work against right?

[nerobro]

paladin: Maybe I should have mentioned larger nipples. I was assuming that was clear. Larger ID hose wouldn't work without larger fittings to go with it. So we can rest assured that the rocks have sufficant reserve volume built in ;-) Speaking of which... there's a broken brass rock coming your way...*sniffles*

[Paladin]

Originally posted by ES13Raven
Well.... I tested my best Open time right before I installed it, and it was 14ms. That is pretty damn low to start, but just by putting on the QEV I was able to lower it to 7ms. Micro Rock was at 85psi.

I'm sure that adding another QEV to the front port will increase speed as well, but I didn't install one on purpose. I wanted to keep the force of the bolt softer.

It should be just as fast as the Open without a QEV, as there is no mainspring force the ram has to work against right?

Well, your quick exhaust valve is on the lower volume side of the ram and the back flow through the 4-way vent is what the release valve speeds up.
A quick release on the front of the ram allows for faster venting of the opening pressure and probably would not effect the pressure or "force" on the bolt.
Maybe better to look at it a faster direction change than faster lineal movement. It isn't so much that the ram will move faster but change directions of force faster.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by nerobro
paladin: Maybe I should have mentioned larger nipples. I was assuming that was clear. Larger ID hose wouldn't work without larger fittings to go with it. So we can rest assured that the rocks have sufficant reserve volume built in ;-) Speaking of which... there's a broken brass rock coming your way...*sniffles*

What I was getting at is that larger hoses and barbs won't do any good if the ports for flow or venting through the control valve are not equally as large.

How is your Rock "broken" ?