AGD's Relply to the Wait on Xmags (long)

[FooTemps]

Amen, TK. People don't realize how much of a pain it is to work on increasing production when you work a smaller outfit than other companies. I haven't owned a company or anything but I have done a couple scenarios in my old school.

For all those people out there saying "MARKET MARKET MARKET!"... Where is AGD going to get the money to sponsor a big team, put up a huge ad campagne? You can't just hand an xmag to a team and tell them to advertise for you. You can't just make an ad and then tell a magazine to put it in your pages. YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR ALL THAT CRAP.

All that crap you want to pay for might increase pre orders but then there's the issue of keeping up with those orders. Yeah, increasing facilities... That means you'd probably need to spend huge sums of money to increase what you have now. I think that a cnc to mill a C&C xmag body is around... half a million dollars. That's for one machine... What about leasing new facilities? What about new staff? What about buying rights to the C&C xmag body? What about other machines needed to mill the other parts? Do you get my point? There's going to be a lot of spending to increase production and demand. AGD isn't a big company with tons of machines working in house around the clock. They aren't a WDP or WGD... They get parts from suppliers and then assemble them. I'd figure the process isn't near as fast as other companies.

People in paintball are full of bull sometimes too. I mean, there are people who say "I want this!" and "I definitely will buy that!". Would you trust those people and produce to meet those demands to find that they were all talk? AGD is playing it smart. There are tons of people who are all talk out there that will probably screw you over if you listen to them. For example, AGD's roller trigger crisis... They listened to a lot of people talk... (okay maybe about 70 to 100 people) and they figured they'd sell a good margin of them. The first batch sold out fast, so they made a bigger batch... This time nearly no one bought one. That means 50 of those 70 people were all talk.

Meh, I'm done...

[JT2002]

man i cant keep reading this, i aint (sp? ) no english teacher man u ppl keep writing essays lol

[nuclear zombie]

The fact of the matter is , Tom Kaye really has no control over how many X-Mags get made right now , it was created by AGDE . I understand that it can be frustratiing when you are taking heat for something you can't control, but don't want to say its someone else's fault when they are doing everything they can to help you out .

Having such a low supply , and such a high demand usually isn't considered good buisness , but AGD isn't your usual company . AGD does have a tendency to over-engineer it's products , it sometimes leads to longer build times but results with a product that will withstand what most other paintball guns never could .

Like Tom said the x-mag wasn't designed for everyone , most people will be just as well off buying a ULE bodied , e-mag for about half the price of an x-mag .

[aaron_mag]

Typical engineer! So sensitive about his mechanical creations. :)

I can understand where Tom is coming from. It would be gut wrenching for me to have to read some of the stuff on the forum about delivery as well. What amazed me the most was how one minute we were singing Tom's praises about Level 10 then we quickly switched to back stabbing him about delivery issues on the Xmag. I'm still in awe of Level 10 every time I gas up my marker. It has been a vocal minority that have been complaining. Most of AO seems satisfied with everything we have been getting (with my Level 10 and new ULE body I've got everything I was hoping for!)

[Frank (the spank)]

heh heh... the grip makers are fighting.

[ddinwdc]

One concise message to AGD

I think most of us could care less about the X-mag or its availability. Few can aford the price, and even less think it offers substantially more performance over what we already have. We do, however, want ULE products, and we want them to be available. Make more ULE stuff, make sure you keep it IN STOCK and don't sweat the X-mag.

[manike]

So nobody want's Ferrari's when they can buy a Fiat (or Japanse imports) that are just as fast huh? The fiat will get me to work just as quick, carry my luggage (which the Ferrari might not ) so why go for one over the other?

Why buy a Purdy? over a browning?

Exclusivity and rarity have value. I don't care if you can't afford it or don't want to wait. This product isn't currently for people like that.

Just the fact it's known to the market is a good thing for AGD.

Other than here at the 'fanclub' do you know how people react and what happens when you talk about mags? The X-mag is changing that, and it's changing opinions of people who will never own or have one. But ultimately that's good for AGD and their long term future. Heck I'd say it's vital.

You think the sales of Lexus don't have knock on benefits to Toyota's? You think Audi sales doesn't have an effect on VW sales?

So many people with so much more to know and learn. Very few people here really know what is going on at AGD and AGDE.

[Dayspring]

Tom came into chat late last night and talked about all the fun ULE stuff he's coming out with.

[ddinwdc]

First off

Toyota doesn't produce Lexuses at the cost of Camerys; they know where their bread is buttered. Are there waiting lists for a 550 Modena? Sure. Are their waiting lists for a Fiat? Absolutly not, you just go to the dealer and drive it home. Top-end models get people in the door, but the tactic only works when you have the minivan on the lot and ready to sell after the customer is finished drooling over the sports car. Your analogy is sperious, sir. This isn't an issue of the value of the X-mag (that is a whole other discussion), this is an issue of AGD's inability to deliver a variety of products that its market is hungery for.

[manike]

Re: First off

Originally posted by ddinwdc
Toyota doesn't produce Lexuses at the cost of Camerys; they know where their bread is buttered. Are there waiting lists for a 550 Modena? Sure. Are their waiting lists for a Fiat? Absolutly not. Top-end models get people in the door, but the tactic only works when you have the minivan on the lot and ready to sell to the customer after they are finished drooling over the sports car.

You just proved my point perfectly. Thanks :)

X-mag which is more expensive and waiting list = Get's em in the door.

E-mag and normal mags which are cheaper and available = get sold.

Thanks for such a great reply to prove what I am saying! If only now you could read what you wrote and understand it...

[ddinwdc]

I'll give you a break since you're British

and don't know what is going on here in the States. Yes, the Emag is available, but you know what? THAT ISNT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! We are talking about AGD's new line of products like the ULE body. Sold out in less than a day and has been out of stock ever since. When are they going to be back in stock? Who knows? I've heard two weeks, which, coming from AGD, could mean two months, five months, etc. I think I clearly implied AGD's lack of stocked product in my (more appropriate) analogy. Perhaps a few remedial reading comprehension courses would do YOU some good.

[manike]

I'll give you a break since you obviously don't know what you are talking about or that the discussion here started out about the X-mag. (see the thread topic, or maybe take some of the remedial reading classes you seem to know so much about).

Also swearing and cussing at me really won't help the points you are trying to make.

edit: nice to see you edited out most of the offensive remarks.

[ddinwdc]

Oh really?

Manike, you got to work on that comprehension problem of yours. The second sentance in Tom's post is (drum roll please):

"This is in response to to the many threads currently running about AGD's ablility to deliver product."

[Dayspring]

Re: I'll give you a break since you're British

You have finally proven yourself to be the troll we all think you are...

Manike is the guy who actually came up with the Xmag body. He came up with the Parameters for the milling program. He is also one of the most respected members on AO. If there's ANYBODY you listen to on AO outside of the AGD staff, it's Simon. He said it last night, along with Tom. There are 3 people who know about Xmag construction- Tom, John Sosta from AGD-E and himself(Manike).

Secondly, It's math time. Tom produced about 150 ULE bodies in the first batch. We have 11,000+ AO members that knew about them. Somehow, I don't think that works out... You have to understand that AGD doesn't have the capital to just make TONS of items that may or may not sell. Thats why things are done in batches. Like the Xmags. Like the X-Valves. Like the ULE items. If they invest TONS of money in them and they don't sell, Tom's stuck with inventory that won't move. He loses money. He loses too much $, say goodbye to AGD.

As for your Intelliframe question- if you're really interested, PBX has two blade black ones in stock. I'll be happy to pass you on to them.

Lastly, you do not add anything positive to the conversation, nor to your general surroundings. When you can string together two coherent and intelligent thoughts, let me know. We'll throw you a party. (I won't hold my breath though.)

Originally posted by ddinwdc
and don't know what is going on here in the States. Yes, the Emag is available, but you know what? THAT ISNT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! We are talking about AGD's new line of products like the ULE body. Sold out in less than a day and has been out of stock ever since. When are they going to be back in stock? Who knows? I've heard two weeks, which, coming from AGD, could mean two months, five months, etc. Black intellis? Sold out. When are they back in stock? X-valves? I think I clearly implied AGD's lack of stocked product in my (more appropriate) analogy. Perhaps a few remedial reading comprehension courses would do YOU some good.

[manike]

Home schooling....

Please sit down and get comfortable while I tell you why the X-mag affects the ULE.

First, the ULE would never have happened if it wasn't for AGDE and the X-mag.

The importance and need for aluminium bodies to save weight, that could be milled and customised via anno, was the whole idea and concept from AGDE. I was part of one of the first ever discussions with AGD about how this should be done... oh 6 years ago? when on a visit to AGD with John Sosta. It was AGDE making the X-mag that kick started AGD into doing the ULE bodies so others could upgrade and have a 'cheaper and more accessible version'. You will be interested to know that John Sosta was also the first to start cutting rails and bodies down to make the guns as small and light as possible. John is an avid tourny player in Europe and he in conjunction with John Bonich (and I daren't forget Jackie) are responsible for a lot of the development guidance of the AGD product range.

The X-mag showed the potential of such concepts and AGD has now developed it down to a product which is available to all.

People come in the door because they see the very stylish (yeah I'm biased :) ) X-mag. And some can wait and afford one, but many can not and so decide to get an e-mag, or decide to buy ULE parts, or whatever but at least they are being exposed to AGD again. They were never in a position to buy an X-mag, but because of it's image and reputation amongst those that can, they are instead buying other products from the same company.

It's very much like formula 1 racing. You will never go that fast, you will never afford a car, but due to it happening and people seeing new ideas and concepts, your car becomes lighter and more economical with nice features such as paddle shift etc.

Dayspring, I'm not going to take credit where it's not due, I didn't come up with the X-mag body (in terms of the original one) I 'just' did the 3d modelling, C&C body design and milling.

I never EVER designed the C&C body to be as successful as it has been. It was supposed to be a 'limited edition'!

I designed it to get attention back to AGD and their products, and oh my god has it done exactly what I intended and more. I regularly get people telling me how much they like it. Look at all this talk about it! It's getting attention. AGD is being noticed, now they just have to keep that attention and use it to sell products.

If I'd designed it for mass production and huge numbers so every one could have one... I'd of designed it differently.

ddinwdc, you are going to hate my next gun... there are only 5 of them being made EVER... and they are already taken but it will put another marker in the ground for what is possible and what may be more common in the future...