After the mag for AGD?

[Steelrat]

Mags are not better than any other hight-end marker. They have thier own special advantages, just like any other marker, and find their own way of getting to the same end result: shooting paintballs. We must be careful to not assume that other markers are inferior becasue they use different designs.

[Gadget]

The fact is, there is a world of difference between, say, a mag and a viking.

Well yes, the Viking looks like it was welded together from spare M1 tank parts ....but on the performance side? Sure the Viking is more gas efficient....but ROF, accuracy, consistency? Not much between the two tbh.

[Koosh]

Originally posted by Gadget


...but on the performance side? Sure the Viking is more gas efficient....but ROF, accuracy, consistency? Not much between the two tbh.

So aside from looks, why would you go with the mag? Manual mode would be the only reason I can come up with...

[Prairie]

Did he just say accuracy?

Anyway...

I'm glad some intelligent people jumped into the thread to support the mag side, thanks.


Continue the discussion, i'd like to hear some more.

[dcmander]

Feel, compactness, low profile, lightness, magnetic trigger.

Just to name a few.

[Gadget]

I like the design, the performance, the reliability and the looks.

....and I've never run out of gas in a game in the 10 years I've owned mags.

So why would I want to use any marker other than a mag?

[Jerhew]

more innovation has gone on at AGD in the last 2 years than any other company in paintball...
heck...level 10 alone, to me anyway, sets them above all others as a foolproof(as long as it's setup properly), mechanical anti-chopping device

the warp feed...ule bodies...ule trigger(soon)...x-mags...y-grip...i'm sure i'm forgetting something

as has been said already
as long as they keep going the way they have
the only thing that needs fixing is the marketing...

Tom is a very smart guy, to me it's pretty obvious that he has some long term plans for the product line and if we can recognize that the classic won't last forever...I'm more than sure he sees it too

[Koosh]

Right, I'm on my fourth mag right now, and don't see myself giving it up anytime soon...

But There are guns that are just as fast, just as consistant, just as reliable, just as if not more effecient, from companies that are just as good as AGD... The mag was better engineered... 5 years ago... the rest of the industry is catching up quick and can offer a product that can match and/or beat AGD's specs.

Heck, my dream gun is an X-Mag, but its naieve for us to assume that it'll be on top forever...

[Gadget]

That's a fair point, but until another manufacturer releases a marker which offers me a real advantage over my E-Mag, I'll be sticking with AGD.

But I'm not in any way saying that other manufacturers markers are inferior - just that I'm happy with mine and can't currently see any advantages that would persaude me to change to another make.

[rx2]

As was mentioned, the only real innovations from other companies have things like the spool valve or valvless designs. Oherwise, most companies are using what are essentially the same systems that they have been using since the mid-nineties. In most cases, these companies have simply found ways to tweak a little bit more performance out of designs, and have added electronics.

Now, one had mentioned that Tom CAN'T rest on the current valve design. Well, it is possible that he isn't, and just hasn't mentioned anything, as it would be too early. On the flipside, just what is so bad about the current valve, anyway?

Let us examine the current state. We have the aluminum X-Valve. No one, so far as I have heard, has ever been able to get it to shoot-down (unless it is short stroked). With level 10, it is nearly impossible to chop decent paint. Being aluminum, it is very lightweight. It also goes without saying that it is compact, and sturdy to boot.

So, what we have here is a valve system that is faster than anyone will ever be able to shoot, lightweight, chop-free, small, and durable. I fail to see the problems here.

Of course, it is impossible to say that there are not a couple of shortcomings.

One person mentioned the large solenoid/battery. Of course, when your marker is half the size of the average marker, it is hard to really call this a problem, but lets just say that it is. This is needed because of the pull-weight. Lower the weight, and you can use smaller components, correct? Well, if the ULE trigger can effectively slice the weight of the pull by two-thirds, then that will be achieved. I do believe Tom was considering this possiblity. So, in this respect, Tom IS progressing. We may see a smaller solenoid/battery in the near future.

The only two other problems I can think of are short-strokability, and efficiency.

For the short-stroke, there is the electronic frame. Unless we are all forced to go back to mech, you might as well consider that point moot for most players. It would still be a potential problem for mech users, but who knows? Is it not possible that there could be devised a mechanical update to stop this? The RT certainly helps this problem, perhaps Tom may work on that in the future.

As far as efficiency goes, I can't say. Now, with higher-pressure 5K tanks, it shouldn't be as much of a problem, unless you are firing 2000 rounds per game. Of course, it is still nagging for those backyard players who don't have fill stations of SCUBAs for all-day play. But, again, it is presumptuous to say that Tom isn't working on this.

And, finally, to reiterate a previous point, only Tom can say whether or not he trying to progress. We don't know what he is thinking up; we don't know what intimate knowledge he alone is privy to (unless you have tapped into the collective unconscious). He takes criticism seriously, and as such is probably hard at work thinking of all he can to silence the complaints.

So, I think that I have demonstrated that most problems with the current valve are mostly perceived, as well as the notion that AGD rests on their laurels. It is possible there may be some new stuff in the works, or it may be possible that Tom is simply working to perfect the current system. If the later is true, I see no reason why the current valve would not have longevity beyond the present. And, even if he doesn't iron out the wrinkles, I think that the current valve will still be a valid system for years to come.

[Prairie]

Now that...that was a good reply.

[madmatt151]

Mags behind the times!

This guy is not the only one who has told me this BS. Last time I was at Cousins (a local paintball store) the guy kept telling me yeah he knew mags were good, but the technology is old! Even if that were true, its not, why would that matter if the guns shoots the way you want and is well built. Hell look at all the vehicles most Americans are driving now. These SUVs are based on OLD technology of a body on frame. Do you see people not buying them? Most of these guys in the sport have a bad image of the mags and I say the hell with em. Let em think that and We will still be the wiser.

[WarBUCKs]

I think what he means about being a step behind is that Low Pressure is the latest and greatest stuff, and AGD doesn't have a LP gun yet.

If technology keeps improving at the current rate, I am sure that AGD will have a LP gun in 4 years (sub-200psi if they decide to take that route). The Level 10 is a great help, lets the bolt think it is a "LP" gun when it really isn't. So soft on the paint!

What AGD has done, IMO, is take their "old guns" and make them brand spanking new time and time again. The innovations (LX bolt, ULE equip) that come from AGD influence the entire paintball world. I would almost be willing to say that Tom would love to make the current valve LP, R&Ding an attatchment piece and is trying his damndest to do it. I would have to say AGD is ahead of techology, but behind in the "What's Popular at the moment" idea.

[nt2004]

hmm most other threads here are talking about how advanced AGD is and how amazing their upgrades are. This is one of the first ones that say AGD is behind the market

[Lohman446]

What

Ok - you have guns on the market now that can outshoot anyones ability to pull the trigger, and hoppers that will nearly keep up with them. Fully auto is banned. We have proven that accuracy is paint to barrel match (I was hitting a 2" steel pipe at 50 feet consistantly with my X-valved, CP .689 barrel, and marbalizer today). What more could you want from a gun. The only possible improvements i see in guns in the future is efficiency(or a new propulsion system entirely). Valveless and spool valves (while I will admit I know nothing about them) can do little more than the same thing valves today do - propel the paintball.