SEAR MOD: CHUFF less with your ULT, still SAFE for your BOLT

[Jack & Coke]

You won't be able to walk it. The purpose of this mod is to GREATLY REDUCE the chance of chuffing during rapid firing.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

ideas

Yup, I respect AGD still, 50% of the moving on is just that I have been using a mag for all the time I've played, but the other half is because AKA impressed me and I want to try a cocker and an e-marker out and they sell quality ones of both.

My new idea, if it's economically feasible, is going to be HUGE... but I have to work a little more on it and have a minor hurdle to deal with (trigger/body/noid configuration) that must be handled.

The ULT is NOT walkable, you might be able to pull off one or two walking it but you really risk a chuff doing it. I definitely agree with J+C that a little heavier wouldn't mean a thing unless you were walking it, but the little bit shorter is the key to a higher ROF as well as less chuffs.

Keep the idea alive guys, you know I believed it would work and J+C has even done it and he has a mind for tinkering and investigating ideas. You need to convince more AOers if it's going to be big but good luck with that.

[GoatBoy]

Finally got my ULT

I never really understood FooTemps' desire to lengthen the distance until now...

I just installed the ULT tonight and I'm fanning 13bps, no problem. I'm having like almost *no* problem chuffing. The kickback seems perfectly adequate to me; in fact it feels like it's kicking back about as hard as my regular on/off. However, the trigger's not walkable right now (might have something to do with it being my first night and not having a blade trigger), and I don't think it's rollable either.

When you talk about rapid firing, how fast are you talking about exactly?

For those who AREN'T having chuffing problems, a sear extension might not be such a bad idea.


Just my $0.02

[dyeforever]

just wondering did you have to adjust the trigger rod when you did the mods or jsut left it?

[lightning rift]

The mechanics are pretty plain to me, and I think this is a great idea. One of the disadvantages mags have is that the trigger is pretty much set, there isnt much you can do to change it.
Might there be a possibility of drilling a bunch of holes down the legnth of the sear, and then designing a pin for the trigger rod that would allow the user to put it where ever he/she wants?

[badtoyz]

any more updates on this mod or is it done ?

[redlaser666]

I have also performed this mod and i can tell you it is almost imposible to chuff. Also i can walk mine without too much problem for about 30-40 ball strings. It isnt as easy as in an electro, but it is defenitively(?) doable.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

idea

Glad to hear the idea worked, I think J+C and I both saw the potential in it when we seperately devised it. And redlaser that is really cool. The one thing I noted with the ULT is it's really not walkable (or not so well that it's worth it). If that's the case, then why do you need such a light pull when you can sacrifice some for a shorter pull? I'd be just as happy using two fingers to pull one shot (not walking, I mean pull both simultaneously) to rip on an insanely short pull as well as reduce chuffing instead of how it is now.

A bell curve may exist where you can get the optimal exchange of lightness to length. In other words, where you get more "bang for your buck" and the pull is 60% less but only 40% heavier. That would be sick and just the spot for AGD to set in a new sear design with a slope in back of the trigger to make pushing it at an angle easy. The sear, instead of just having a fulcrum that goes straight down, could go half the length then go 90 degrees aimed backwards which if used would cut the radius in half (50% shorter pull, more weight) and still allow proper motion for the sear to work.

The other idea I had was to see if the ULT could be made more extreme. One reason the pull may be set at 15oz is if it was made any lighter it wouldn't have enough force to properly reset before the next shot is fired (hence a ton of chuffing) so AGD set it for 15oz. If this idea was used, they could go lower to like 10oz. and the added pull weight from this mod would counteract it (bringing it back to 15oz) but leave the new 50% (or 33%) shorter pull. I'd have to discuss it with AGD to truly understand the physics and cause/effect relationships that could exist that exist with a ULT.

Let AGD know what you think, he was not receptive to the idea before but if proven results and customer interest is shown, it may be reconsidered and properly R+D'd. BUT DON'T FORGET it was J+C and myself who both came up with it and Redlaser666 who made it a reality.

[luke]

How much "over pull" does the ULT have? I'm curious if a back stop would improve on this mod. (?)

[redlaser666]

It has about a 3/32" of extra back pull that i corrected with a back stop on my intellyframe. I will try to take a small video of it working and post it later.

[luke]

redlaser666,
How much did you raise the trigger rod? (Centerline to centerline)

[redlaser666]

The new hole is almost 1/8" higher, or around .25 give or take .2". The sure thing is that mine is higher than J&C's.
That may be the reason why mine is walkable and his isn't.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

machine

Getting one machined with multiple holes to test all the different locations would be great, which is why I was yelling till I was blue in the face way back that AGD should look into this, if just for kicks. I just don't have the fabrication ability or tools to do this. For those familiar with the type of bell curve present when adjusting pressure for cockers and the affect on velocity, the idea is to find just the spot where the pressure is no longer proving to be a benefit to the velocity and this is where to set it. Very efficient there. With this mod, it would involve setting it at a point, measuring the pull weight and the pull length at the set operating pressure to fire at 280-300fps (probably 280 or 290 would make sense). These values can be graphed in a few ways:

pin hole's radius from pivot (x)
vs
(new pull weight % change/new pull distance % change)

what this means is compare the radius to a pull that got 20% heavier (1.2) divided by the distance that got 20% shorter. 1.2/.8=1.5 If the weight had been only 10% more (1.1) and the pull a whopping 30% shorter (.7) the ratio would be 1.1/.7=1.57 and indicates a higher benefit. Finding the optimal location where the ratio peaks and is within an operable trigger pull weight (if it peaks at 10lbs that's a little too heavy, even if it was more efficient) and that is the ideal location to set the marker up at. I presume if a wide range of radii (plural?) have the same ratio, it's best to take the earliest one to maintain the lighter pull, since all would be optimal but just different balances.

The other would be weight (X) vs distance (Y) which would produce probably a downward sloping curve and finding the location of maximum vertical angle downward would be the optimal configuration of weight and pull to hit.

Any thoughts on all this guys?

By the way, the best way to spark interest in this is to include a link to it in your sig. I am going to add one and if people see enough of them elsewhere and go to the thread, it will help us find out if non-tinkerers want it available, as it is an AGD component only they should produce it since aftermarket would void all warranties, but it is the ultimate choice in customization with no ill effects.

[luke]

I have a mill and the drill bits to do it, I just don't have an X-valve to try it out in. I do have two RT Valves, which eventually I'll get around to milling one of them to accept the new on off, I'm currently working on a few other things and don't have the time. (yet)

I've been watching this thread to see where it goes though, you guys are defiantly onto something here....

[redlaser666]

I have another sear i will drill in a diferent spot or spots to see the diferent efects. I will post more as i progress.

Later,
Raul

PS. Good idea on the sig link!