im in a argument with my friend , and i no im right , what is a better gun for woodsball ? a a5 or a ule x valve level 10 mag ? he seems to think agd has only been around for a few years and is horrible quality , but when i got my first mag he had never heard of agd , he thinks tippmanns r really so much better , prove him worng and me right , thanks

Mag

i won an A-5 at my local field... i turned around and sold it back in 2 days... they suck compaired to a mag

AGD has been around for a VERY long time. And they've very high quality. Just look at the crazy tolerances used in mags. Basically, the Mag will have a lighter trigger pull if ULT'd, or a responsive trigger without becoming a gas hog without ULT. Also, it will look better, weigh less, and be more reliable internally. Oh, and its field strippable unlike the A5 which requires the removal of about 5 pins to take it apart.

A5's aren't bad marker, but it doesn't compare to a mag. I could bet you'd get a similar answer to mine anywhere you ask, even on the tippmann owners site.

let me ask you this, if mags were undoubtably better for the price, why wouldn't everyone buy them over tippman a-5's? and i see alot of A-5's at my field. however, i would have to say that i'd prefer the mag personally because of reliablility, ease of maintenance, and kickass-ness.

This is going to be such a Bias poll.

Any way i would rather have a mag becasue they are much lighter and more compact.Also they are very reliable.
Although the tippman is reliable it is heavier then my SS mag and not field stipable like my mag.One benefit to the A-5 is you dont have to worry about chops..but then again there is the LVL10 for mags,even though it can be a bit of a pain somtimes it's nothing , major.
Another benefit to the mag is it is soooo upgradable you get so many options.Theres not to many upgrades for a A-5.
A mag you can make look good and still have a fast reliable gun.The A-5,wel to me you cant make them look good but thats opinion.Ive also heard that tippmans quality has decreased slightly.I dotn know how true this is.

Ive shot both and i prefer the mag mainly becasue i know how to fix i and it is small/compact light and fast.Also the (pricy) but nice upgrades you can get.

every1 buys a-5's cuz a lot of the people play rec. and they probably have not heard of a mag because you dont see too many at fields anymore


and tippmann is kind of known for rec play... but im not saying that their pro series 98's are not good for a tourny cuz my friends team uses them and just came in 1st place

really for woodsball a classic mag ( like minimag or automag) with level 10 and a tac-one body whould be good

you dont really need the x vavle unless you want the lightness and fast shooting but really do you really need to shoot fast in woods??

thats why i bought my rt pro 200 bucks and has an intelliframe rt pro valve with level 10.

i was going to get a classic but i though 200 for rt mag is a good deal

the a5-s are nice as well but they are a bit bulky and if you are in the woods i dont think they will be good.

one + for the a-5 in the woods would that it can have a flatline for long shoots

but really ill go mag for the small size for hiding by trees and its jest a mag what more can i say

Are you serious?

I dont even own a mag, but comparing one to a glorified tippman 98 with spin-feed? guffah!

BTW everybody buys A-5's over mags because mags have only recently become affordable, everybody still thinks of them as 500+ guns. On the other hand tippman has posted 50 ads in every 100 page paintball magazine sells their guns in virtually every store and has sold low-performance high durability guns for eons.

Besides they are ugly and loud

(lets see them stand up to the ion tho hahahaha)

Mag, I owe a tippmann (98c) and its a great gun, but it can't compare to a mag.

tac one hands down

tippmanns are great guns in their own respects but i would have to reccomend a m98 with rt before an a-5 those feed sytems suck and get hit ALOT!

36 to 2 , i win!

Tell your stupid friend that AGD's been around since the 80s, and only one of three companies that are still around from that era. I doubt Tippmann's one of them.

thats wut i did tell him , when i got my first mag he told me he never heard of an "automag" and they were nothing like his a5 , i told him they were alot better and told him about them , he still thinks his a5 is better cuz its full auto, he is pretty dumb , i think i should no about paintball , ive been playing for 6 years, he thinks he knows alot but he claims that tournies dont allow hpa, they only accpet co2 only he claims witch i no is bs , and says that his tippmann is alot more versatile because he can run co2 or hpa witch is true but when your using a gun with c02 they dont perform as well as cthwey would with hpa , when i talk to him again ill send him this link and prove that he is dumb and nos nothing about paintball ,thanks for the help guys

I've got both. I use the Mag (E-Mag) most of the time but I've got the A-5 for the times when CO2 is the only thing I can get. Of course that doesn't happen very often.

Yeah, I guess that will be something a Tippmann will always have over a Mag, it can use CO2. Gotta give 'em props for being so technologically advanced.

ahahaha

That's right versatility is a stupid idea.

Hi

my first Marker was a A5 with E-Gripp. Dont get me wrong but i liked it. No trouble and ok (at that time) for me.
I started out to shoot a Mag from a Friend of mine. And I liked all about the Mag from the first Touching it. After that i was reading alot and decided i get one.

Well long story short....i have 3 very well Shooting Mags plus 2 almost done.
I also have a B2K4 and a VF Tactical. But I mainly shoot the Mag because is a reliable fast shooting Marker.....

Little_Ho

Automag totally outmatches Tippmann.

*Ahem* Actually they are... Tippmann made one of the first semi-autos and the first full-auto long before AGD ever started manufacturing markers at all. They developed the basis and configuration for every blowback-style marker since then (hammer linked to bolt, bolt hits valve and fires gas in two directions to both fire and recock). Tippmann is one of the longest-standing companies out there and certainly more than three have survived since the 80's. Palmer's, WGP, and CCI just to name a few and there are plenty more.

We're talking apples and oranges, here. 'Mags are high performance and rugged and designed to be so. Tippmanns are designed with beginers in mind and are virtually indestructible. Moreover, Tippmanns have easily the best performance of any blowback-style marker out there.

I won't go into specific pros and cons of each, but keep in mind that we're debating two systems that were designed completely differently. You can't really choose a "best" except based on personal opinion. Now, I believe the original question was, "Which marker is better for woodsball?" This can be answered based on fact. The only factor is your playing style. If you play fast and aggressive and need the light weight and fast firing of the 'mag, then that's your choice any day. But keep in mind that the A-5 was designed for woodsball, works well for woodsball and is really hard to beat for woodsball. Especially in the price range.

I love AGD - their products are fantastic. However, Tippmanns have different appeal and I love them too. My advice is to stop arguing and just play over it. Besides, you'll never convince each other who is "right". Though both of you could use a dab of history...

?what is it exactly that makes them perform to a superior degree as compared to a spyder/pirahna etc.?

Right now.. for me. Unless it's a custom hyperframed electro mag then I'd rather have an A-5 E. I am actually switching to one when my mag is sold. Having an electronic mag is too expensive.. I can have an electro A-5 for 220 + 99 and from there, there are a few mods I would add being comp air, RVA, spring kit, good reg, and some other minor stuff but in the end it's a hella good gun.

Simply put.. a mag and an A-5 are probably equally reliable. Mags.. for the most part are built of extremely high quality. A-5's .. may be a little cheap in their shells but are very sturdy and respectable guns. The problem with mags is that they have lost their popularity and cannot even compete with other guns in terms of pricing. A basic custom mag will cost you about 440 bucks without any barrel or anything and that's just because Rogue has awesome prices. Mine cost me 600 dollars before I modified it or had a barrel kit.

A maxxed out A-5 will run you under 500 if you shop smart. By maxxed out I mean 15bps electro low pressure goodness. An electronic mag performing at that level will be.. well a hyperframe or X-Mag.. or devilmag. top dollar.

So in the end.. well.. I'd say the 2 are damn good and I can't find any reason to pick one over the other except PRICE.

Quite simple: Superior parts and construction.

But I think what you're really asking is: "On what basis can I claim that Tippmanns perform better than spyders?" To that I can only say this: Pick up a spyder, no paint, no air. Look at it, turn it over, dry fire it a few times. Feel the trigger wobble and feel how uneven the pull is. Hear the grinding of sliding parts and the *ping* of the valve. Now pick up a Tippmann and do the same thing. Notice that the trigger is rigid but smooth and that the action is tight and doesn't wobble. The Tippmann bolt has a nice *shlunk* to the valve and the parts are better protected and with a better fit. Of course, I am talking about two bone-stock markers between which the price varies considerably (up to 100%).

When you fire it, the Tippmann has a natural *point* to it and stays on target easily. The spyder is unballanced and drifts more readily. The Tippmann is ergonomically correct and feels good to shoot whereas the Spyder is just a blob of aluminum bolted to a pistol grip.

The valve system of Tippmanns is also somewhat more consistent and provides closer shot-to-shot velocities. This doesn't make it more accurate, just more consistent. Consistency coupled with an ease of aiming, the average new player will find that the Tippmann is more 'accurate', though this has only to do with being easier to fire.

Do you want to talk rate of fire? Let's not. Why? Because the rate of fire on both markers is limired by the trigger system and therefore moot. Sure we can get an e-grip to solve the problem, but that's not what we're talking about. People hear the word "performance" and they think "rate of fire". They're not the same. People are excited about Ions because they can shoot 18 bps. So what? There's more to performance than ROF. Tippmanns are the best of the best when it comes to semi- blowbacks because they are easy to shoot, consistent, reliable and smooth as compared with almost everything else out there. That's exactly why in this time of electro-driven speed markers, Tippmann can justify a $200+ blowback marker - because it really is worth it.

Don't get me wrong, adjusted for price they're the same... but in this case, you get what you pay for and qualitatively, Tippmanns far surpass the spyders that are out there.

I'd say the mag
but add a siphon tube on a tippmann
and run it on liquid co 2 in the winter
My first gun was a tippmann 68 carbine (recently broken )
Then I went up to a mag.
I find that both guns are reliable but the mag is so much easier to maintain.

This has to be one of the dumbest arguements ever. There's no question an Automag is FAR supierior to an A5. The A5 relies upon uneducated buyers and gimics. The "Flatline" in my opinion is bogus because the balls always bounce at extended range. The cyclone feed system in itself is a flaw in that if the hopper or feed system breaks, your gun is out for the count. An A5 with all the bells and whistles(Nitro, Flatline ect.) weighs so much the owners are embarassed to let others even hold it.

Tippmann A5= Entry level
Automag= serious player

Very well put!

I'm an owner and am in no way "embarrassed to let others even hold it." It's really a shame that you're so unable to appreciate something other than what you own or wish you could own.

what, about such a simple and similar valve system, would make it more consitant?

Ive done a bit of work at one of our local fields, we have a mix of pro carbines 98 customs and spyder compacts. The tippies break down just as much as the compacts, although the compacts do require a bit more maintenance. Most kids who rent prefer to rent the compacts.

Ive gone through many spyders in my time (im an upgrade/tinker freak) and yes, the newer spyders feel very "loose". Thats why i recommend other brands/spyder clones, specifically the Bob Long Spyder/millenium if you can get a hold of one. That puppy would rival a tippie any day.

I believe its mostly personal preferance, i dont buy any of that super-tippman bs, if you take decent care of a spyder clone it wil last just as long and perform just as well.

Spyder is just a blob of aluminum glued to a frame? I could say the same thing about bushies, imps, mags, etc. That ergo stuff has nothign to do with performance, personally i cant stand that rifle feel the tippman has, it literally messes up my snap shooting.

Imo, tippies are ugly, loud, a pain to upgrade, and their trigger mech's are all horrible. Oh, and over-priced unless you really need a gun that doesnt care if you dont take care of it, which is fine.

As has been pointed out, when comparing longevity in the past (and for that matter the likelihood of existing in five years if judged from a consumer only standpoint) yout may want to do a little research before calling anyone stupid, st.... ok, I won't go there