getting past field paint rules?

[FreakBaller12]

can't you just buy there paitn online?
liek my field uses 100 a case for blaze
cna't i jsut buy it online and tell them fi it's a different fil that i bought it awhile ago?

[Troy]

or you could just go to the field and steal the money directly from them.
:rolleyes:

Some fields allow BYOP like Badlandz in Chicago. Check to see if there is a field in your area that has BYOP, but do not try to bring nonfield paint to a field paint only place. They will most likely find out, and they will not be happy.

[Albinonewt]

I suppose you could do it, but I really don't think it's worth it from a few different views.

First, it's dishonest. I know people think of it as ripping off a corrupt business, but if you want to rip them off the proper way to do it is not to play there. To try to out cheat a cheater isn't right, it's sinking to (or below) their level.

Second, if you get caught you may face reprucussions that you don't like. Now, obviously I don't mean legal action, but you could find yourself sitting for the day or even banned. I don't think it's worth that risk.

[Muzikman]

You have to remeber, it costs a lot of money to run a field. When you look at it, the only thing that is making them money is by selling paint. Do yourself a favor, if you want to keep your local fields open, buy their paint. I use to make it a point that even the fields that had BYOP, I still bought from the field.

[graycie]

fields are usually up to check on what fill colors they've had in the last year if not longer. if the field finds out you are using non field paint and you continue to use it after a warning (if your lucky enough to get one) they will kick you out. follow Troy's advice and go to a field that allows byop or go on byop days.

[VanGogo]

Muzik has it right. As a field owner I know the only way I can stay open is to primarily be a field paint only establishment. If you want a local field to play at then buy their paint. If you don't, then go play renegade.

Paint at my field is $60/case for field grade paint, up to $80/case for tournament grade (Anarchy, Cyclone, etc.) and everyone says it's expensive when in the last 4 years the price has not gone up! I don't know what area of the country you are in, but the south tends to be a little less expensive (lower cost of living) than up north or out west.

[rdb123]

Originally posted by VanGogo
Paint at my field is $60/case for field grade paint, up to $80/case for tournament grade (Anarchy, Cyclone, etc.) and everyone says it's expensive when in the last 4 years the price has not gone up! I don't know what area of the country you are in, but the south tends to be a little less expensive (lower cost of living) than up north or out west.

I would have no problem buying paint from your field. However, a case of Severe Storm is 85 dollars here! This paint retails for about 32.

I don't know how I keep rationalizing the "premium" (Severe FP) price of 90 a case each weekend I play.

[MDethCKR]

Country Club Paintball by me (IL) damn!

used to be $120 for a case of Premies!
they finally dropped to 100
but theres the 20 entry fee
and nitro fills are 3perpsi or something simular!

so lets see....130 or so?
fun day!

[elpimpo]

wow that sux. the most ive ever paid for a day of practice was 40 a case

[Steelrat]

There is no way I would pay prices like that for paint. I got 30 a case for big ball at a local store, 20 for the field, and 10 for all day air. If I had to pay 80-100 a case for field paint I just wouldnt go there.

[dcmander]

Originally posted by Muzikman
You have to remeber, it costs a lot of money to run a field.

It also costs a lot of money to be a player.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by dcmander


It also costs a lot of money to be a player.

True, but your not trying to make a living at it. If money is an issue for you, find a cheaper sport/hobby:)

[Kevmaster]

I can tell you that my field, we had the same color proball and proball platinum for over three years. It was a FPO color, so the 'net never sold that color. My field was the only field int he state that was allowed to buy it. Chances are, your field has a simialr situation (and no, my field was not massive). They'll know its not their paint

Second, they arnt makin money. If they were drivin benzes and sellin $90/case then thats one thing, but they're not and they're trying to break even. Some fields make money. 95% dont m ake a damn and some of them lose money. Paintball is not a winning business for the fields. $90/case is expensive; but so is owning a field...i've managed one...the financials arnt too hot

[Halliday]

My field uses paint you can't get online. It's easy to spot who's not using ours.

We charge $5 walk-on fee,$15 for rentals, $80/case (Big Ball) and free co2/air. We do a lot of things for free, like teching markers and replacing tank o-rings.

Please don't steal. It's not nice.

[dcmander]

Originally posted by Muzikman


True, but your not trying to make a living at it. If money is an issue for you, find a cheaper sport/hobby:)

How do you know?!?! I'm training to become the best professional paintball player in the world! ;) :D



Why don't fields make paint cheaper, field fees more expensive.

This wya its fair for newbs and experienced players.

[adam shannon]

i played at a field that actually had display samples in little ziplock bags of every brand of paint that was similar to their field color. to the trained eye its too easy to spot non-field paint. the field i used to work at that was one of the jobs for the refs to spot non-field paint...and its easy. and yes you will be tossed out without a refund.

just find a byop field. if you dont like the fields rules dont play there...but if you do dont insult their rules and inteligence by trying a stunt like using non-field paint.

[Smokee_2_7]

Most of the people on the net have NO IDEA what it takes to run a paintball field. Note: I'm not talking about everyone in this thread- - - it seems that several people that have posted have a pretty good idea.

Most fields that are FPO depend on that and that alone to keep the bills paid. Granted, there's always an exception to the rule: but as was pointed out earlier, most of the time you don't see the field owners drivind around BMW's and whatnot. Additionally, almost all of the fields I've personally dealt with that allow BYOP are not totally dependant on that business as a source of income- - i.e. they have other jobs, and do the paintball thing pretty much as a hobby.

Number one, if you want to skirt the FPO rules or boycott all FPO fields, you will see many of these fields go under. That means less places to play. In many areas, there's only one place to play anyway- - the local economy and playing population is not strong enough to support more than one. The vast majority of of players will find themselves playing renegade, at least until someone else gets the bright idea that opening a paintball field / shop is a great way to make a million bux 'cause EVERYONE loves paintball.

Number two, if you get caught sneaking around FPO rules you are generally evicted for the day with no refund. not fun.


People talk nonstop about how great paintball is, and how they want to have AWESOME fields everywhere to play at all the time. Then they go buy their guns off the 'net from some business 600 miles away, get their paint from wal-mart, BEG/moan/ and complain about not getting the 'hookup' free repair/discounts/ and service from their local field, AND THEN whine and complain some more about how 'field X' dosent have any new or updated fields.


Anywone care to take a guess on how much it costs to build a NICE tournamnent style hyperball field? Complete with netting and bunkers that will not fall over as soon as you slide into them?

How about a NICE rec field like a town or somthing like that-- - a field with more than brush piles and rotting lumber in heaps for bunkers?


I'm REALLY curious to hear some estimates.. . .




Carl

[WicKeD_WaYz]

5 dolla

[Pacifist_Farmer]

You just need to find the right field I drive 30 minutes for BYOP, 10 all day air and 20 walk on, best deal ive ever seen

as for estimates I'd say close to 3 or 4 thousand

[graycie]

Originally posted by Smokee_2_7
Anywone care to take a guess on how much it costs to build a NICE tournamnent style hyperball field? Complete with netting and bunkers that will not fall over as soon as you slide into them?

How about a NICE rec field like a town or somthing like that-- - a field with more than brush piles and rotting lumber in heaps for bunkers?

i have no clue what an approx. cost is, but there is alot to take into consideration.

labor: field just isn't going to grow on its own
supplies: telephone poles,lumber, netting, barrels, wood, pallets, tubing(someone told me that they would sometimes steal it from construction sites in the middle of the night), etc.
airball: depends on how many pieces you get, and from who
tents: staging area/safe zones
field maintence: tick spraying, mowing(and up keep of that equip.)

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Originally posted by Halliday
My field uses paint you can't get online. It's easy to spot who's not using ours.

We charge $5 walk-on fee,$15 for rentals, $80/case (Big Ball) and free co2/air. We do a lot of things for free, like teching markers and replacing tank o-rings.

Please don't steal. It's not nice.

holy carp! 80 a case for BIG BALL!?! thats about 3 times what we pay!

[Smokee_2_7]

wicked_wayz: hhehe. . i wish

Pacifist farmer, Getting warmer.


Graycie - - you're hitting really close with 'the list'. All of those things are factors which jsck up the cost.


3-4 grand is a good price for some airball fields(note: just the bunkers)- - just depends on what size field and all that stuff. When you start adding in netting, that throws it through the roof. Buying new, good qulaity netting to to completely net in a 5 man field could possibly cost you up to half a grand or more- - and that's just for 10 foot netting!

Telephone poles cost a ton. 'fencing' in the 5 man field with 15 ft poles (remember, a good chunk of them have to go in the ground IF you want to keep the netting from blowing over) can run you up another grand.

Labor to put up the field will get you, too. Of course, there's the idea "hey, we'll just get a bunch of volunteers to come out and help- - do it for free, and we'll just hook them up later" Well, everything costs somehow. Either it costs you ash up front, or it cost you in decreased money comming in later: i.e. free field fees for those volunteers for the next six months. The type of field you're building also helps determine cost.

If you already have a level, clean, and clear field for an airball course, then you've got it easy. Add MANY hours/ additional expenses if you have to clear trees/ level the ground. (bulldozer rental anyone?) If you're building anything NOT inflatable, then you have to determine how much time you want to spend putting the field together- - i.e. how "well" you want to build it. For example, a hyperball field with the bunkers held in place by bales of hay in the bottom of the tubes is more likely to fall during a storm or when someone hits it: more time spent on repairs. If you lock everything in by integrated pressure treated 4X4's going into the ground by a foot, then you've usually got somewhere around 100" or more of lumber to buy. If you go cheap on the lumber (like not pressure treated) then you have problems with the wood rotting out, and bunkers falling over.
Of course, this ups labor to dig all those holes. . .


Prices for a fixed bunker fiels like hyperball or ball wall run (usually) from 6 to 10 grand. Sometimes you can get a good deal on used equipment/ structures, but don't count on it.



Then again, what if you're trying to build a nice 'rec' field like a town or somthing? Depending on the location, there could be up to a week's worth of bulldozing and clearing just so you have a spot to build. It takes a lot of wood to build all those building- - and remember that they won't last much over a year in many climates unless it's good quality, pressure treated wood.


Staging areas were mentioned: I wasn't even planning on considering that part of a "field" (meaning an ACTUAL playing field) but neat stuff like picnic tables usually run over 100 bux a pop- - unlesss you build them yourself. BUT- - if you want to put 10-20 picnic tables in your staging area, then you either have to buy a whole lot of lumber and spend a WHOLE lot of time building, or come up with an additional grand or 2.


Considering that it's a 'good' thing for a business to actually put money in its employees pockets, all these expenses have to be covered while the business is STILL paying the 'regular' bills- - rent, electric, ref. / employee labor, ect.

Now, unless you HAVE a TON of money to invest initially, (which most field operators DO NOT) then you have to pay for all this stuff as you go along- - from the money that the field brings in.

If a field is BYOP and charges $15 field fees, and has 30 players on a given saturday, that makes $450. Well, lets sweeten it a little bit and ASSUME that EVERY player pays $10 for all day air- - new total at $750. Go ahead and subtract out 7-8 hrs pay for 3-4 employees (assuming minumum wage) [110-170] (new total=580 cash left) and then figure in costs such as rent, electric bills, additional utilities, re-stocking items in the pro shop, ect.

This dosent leave you with much left to go out and build another field that may cost you over 10 grand in the long run.


Now, someone is thinking right now "but you didnt count money coming in from 'proshop' sales!!" You're right, i didnt. Pro shop sales are neglible in most cases- - - the VAST majority of cash brought in from sales on guns/accessories winds up going right back into more inventory. Bulk sale internet companies have made it to where prices are so low that you can't make a sustainable profit from merchandise sales. Heck, many times internet companies sell products for LESS than a shop (as a DEALER, mind you) can purchase them. The end result is that even though TONS of people are getting into paintball, many spend 70-80% (just an average) of their paintball money at a place OTHER than their local field. Hey, lets go buy that m98 at walmart or from pbg b/c it's 20 bux less. Who cares that most fields will fix (for free) any gun that they sell. Or that many places offer additional discounts/ incentives for customers that buy their markers at the pro shop.

There's a lot of money in paintball right now, but due to the internet sales, and mass retailers, MOST of it NEVER sees youre local field. Making a field FPO is the ONLY way to 'lock in' some income to pay expenses, and still think about building somthing new, or updating somthing old on the fields.


There's a ron stern comic that actually hits the nail right on the head:

[warpfeedmod]

Originally posted by MDethCKR
Country Club Paintball by me (IL) damn!

used to be $120 for a case of Premies!
they finally dropped to 100
but theres the 20 entry fee
and nitro fills are 3perpsi or something simular!

so lets see....130 or so?
fun day!

I dunno about you but you can pay the extra $5 and get all day air when you pay your field fees, for $15.

Plus if you're a member (which sometimes they offer lifetime memberships, just talk to George) you can now get $80 cases, their paint is still $100 for non-members which isn't much different then CPX and some other fields in teh area. The only one I've found that does byop is Badlandz (which I love playing at now that I've found the seconds for $32 a case :) )

So if you're a member you're looking at $95 all day air with case of paint, $115 if you're non-member (still alot if you ask me)

I mean compared to badlandz I get like two cases of $30 nelson from pbgear, entry fee is $25 (steep but it does cover all-day air) and i usually end up coming home with like 1/2 case of paint.

[cledford]

While I don't agree with sneaking paint into a field that doesn't allow BYOP - I do boycott those that require FPO. In EVERY instance the paint is crappy - so you end paying more then you would at a shop for a case that ends up ruining your time with breaks, squirrelly shots and the question in the back of your mind "did they really put Brand XXX (that I paid more for) in this Ziploc baggie or are they swindling me?" I can't stand paying a premium price for questionable product that hasn't been professionally cared for. On the surface if the owners took care of the paint and didn't purchase "off" product (which I'm sure happens) and pass it off as good quality I could support the idea, but most field owners do it part-time and leave the paint in "less then desirable" conditions and I'm sure sell every ball they get - no matter how old. You might figure that a FPO operation would go through more paint then a pro shop, but having known someone who ran one that's not the case. They'd buy their paint in bulk for the WHOLE YEAR and not store it with much care during the ensuing 365 days. It got used incrementally on weekends mostly - and if the weather was bad, every other one at that. Conversely, the local pro shops service players daily who frequent 6 major BYOP fields within 45 minutes drive. Who do you think has the better turn over in stock? Furthermore, the store owner KNOWS he's got to treat the product well, otherwise his rep can be hurt and/or the paint returned. The FPO owner knows he's the "only game in town" - if you want to play, you got to pay.

The funny thing is that ONLY fields in this area to go out of business were FPO. To be fair most were also indoors - which have much higher overhead.

I have 3 fields within 15 miles that charge for air and a fee to play, but allow BYOP. I feel that there should be one or another - BYOP or free air.

Just my 2 cents - not saying anyone else is wrong.

-Calvin

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Smokee_2_7
There's a lot of money in paintball right now, but due to the internet sales, and mass retailers, MOST of it NEVER sees youre local field.


Which is why I would never want to open a real pro shop at a field. I would carry only the kinds of things that players are likely to have and break and need replacing. Squeeges, barrel plugs, maybe a hopper or two, batteries, perhaps a mask, things like that. But to have an actual pro shop? IMO too much money spent for too little return

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by elpimpo
wow that sux. the most ive ever paid for a day of practice was 40 a case

For practice yeah, but most fields in colorado that I've been to are $65-85 for white box. Throw in a $20 field fee and $10 all day. Ends up costing about $100 a day to play with a single case.

Although if lynch keeps paint at $40 a case I'm going to start going there a bunch.

[Albinonewt]

The field I go to is $35 for the day and $105 a case of paint.

It ain't cheap, but its a nice place.

[cledford]

Man! Those prices are high! Here in Northern VA you can buy a case of Marbs/Pro-ball/mid-range draxius stuff for $65, then field fee of $15 and ~5 for fills.

-Calvin

[Spaceman613]

for the guys that have the low cost paint and prices.... How often does the field make new fields? upkeep? pro-shop? Does the owner have another job?

It ALL makes a difference. My home field dropped 5k on a new hyperball field. and it was a metric buttload of work. Good thing he has a crew of helpers.

[adam shannon]

if you live in an area that is less populated ie: not a couple hours from NYC, or only have 1 or 2 established fields your gonna pay more. its simple supply and demand and competition. if you live within driving range of 5 or more big fields your gonna see low prices.

for years the biggie by me was selling pmi premium fpo for $85 a case...now bear in mind it was $120 a case when i started in '88. now that he has some competition in other startup fields and a couple byop renegade fields his price has come down to $65, and he cut field and air prices also. competition is the best way to drive prices down.

if your tired of paying high prices you can do what we, and alot of others have done. get together a dozen or so good friends and go in on setting up a renegade field. pull together around $5000-$10,000 for paint, sup air, netting, bulk tanks, a compressor, and booster. then start your own break even byop neighborhood field just because you love to play.

[Vendetta]

Stock class :D

[cledford]

I WISH local fields had stock class games. One did once a month, but they've given up. Even if they did - it would probably suck because I doubt they're make the fields larger then the standard size used now. When I started (paintball as a whole WAS stock class) games were played on fields acres in size, stealth was required and 100 rounds lasted all day and then some. Now adays you can see (and darn near shoot across) most field from the flag station. IMHO the money-grubbing field owners reduced the field size and game length to pump up volume of paint shot to increase their volume of paint sold.

-Calvin

[aaron_mag]

I have no problem paying field prices at most fields (especially if I like the field). If the prices are $60 to $85 depending on grade of paint I am happy. Like someone said I don't see these field owners driving up in a Mercedes. I don't think they are cleaning up.

At the same time I have to look out for my own pocket book. A field has to find the balance between the expense of attracting business (nice setups, good reffing, plenty of refs, and finally affordable field fees/prices) and making a living. Some are strangling themselves because they don't realize the volume the could produce if their rates were a little more reasonable.

Now lets get to internet retail. It is a fact and it is going to grow. That is just the way it is. Local field owners are going to have get creative and focus on income from the field rather than equipment sales.

This begs the question of what is the most profitable for a field. Do they make money hosting tournaments? Do big games make them a bunch of dough? I don't think that regular rec play gives them that much of a lift except maybe large groups that rent markers. Can any field owners give us any insight?

[Smokee_2_7]

Cledford: Im sorry, but it looks like you have had some bad run ins from time to time. Im not really even going to comment on that, except for mentioning that Im the assistant manager of a pro-shop/ field. Im also a college student. I live in a one bedroom apartment (which i share), and do not have a regular land phone line. I am currently in debt to a good extent, and have literally been living off ramen noodles and bagels for the past week. My car is about 6 years old. I got it as a graduation present.

Im also starting another job next week.

I hope you can believe me when I say that All paintball field owners/ people fit this stereotype of the 'money grubbing moneybags'. It simply not true.

Additionally, We never have (nor never will) substitute ANYTHING in place of what we are claiming to sell you. Our most common field paint is sever hurricane: We get shipments of about a pallett once a month during the summer, and once every week or two in the fall/winter. The paint is stored according to temp./ humidity instructions on the box. I know of only one field that has been caught selling somthing other than advertised- - they were taking the zap seconds from a mass retailer and putting the bags into diablo boxes. ya want to know whats really funny? THEY ARE BYOP!!!

Additionally, some of us re-discovered stock class play about 6 months ago. Due to lack of interest, we've only been able to arrange about 3 'stock days' so far. We are currently pushing this as a fun, cheaper way to play, and are hoping to get this going on at least a once a month basis when the weather cools down a little bit more.


Now,

Aaron_mag,

Trust me, I understand completely about looking out for your own pocket book. I basicly spent beyond my means with my x-mag purchase, and now I cannot afford to play, nor do I see myself being able to in the near future.

You are COMPLETELY right about the balance of what a field offers its customers. nice field setups, professional refing, and affordablity. Of course, this does have to happen in sync with making a living. Its a very slow process to expand field operations - - due to the money involved, often there's no way to do it all at once. Continued customer support and suggestions are THE ONLY way that improvements will ever happen.

I also agree with your views on internet retail- - Most fields are doing the best they can to focus their income from somewhere else. Most places try to 'encourage' local business by giving free labor on items purchased from them. Discounts on accessories for guns purchased from them. Free field memberships, which decrease the amount you pay in field fees.

Most people refuse to take advantage of them. The get the gun for 20bux cheaper on the net, get upset when it breaks and the parts and labor cost 25bux, and moan and complain that they have to pay $10field fees, when the other guy that bought local only has to pay $5.

Tournamnents do not bring in alot of money. Tourney players generally expect everything to be free/ discounted. The expect discounts on paint, free air, very nice expensive prizes, and still dont want to pay any more than 100bux per team for a local event.

I have no personal experience with big games or scenario games, so i really cant comment.

The most profitable aspect of the field generally comes from private parties renting equipment. They are actual customers- - not immediately looking for half off on everything. Not complaining because they can get paint on the internet for 10bux less a case. They come out, pay for equipment use and paint, and we do everything in our power to ensure they have a good safe time and want to come back. The majority of the cash brought in from a party is due to the paint they buy though. . .A group of 20 comes out for 3 hours and shoots 4 or 5 cases (often times).

Underneath ALL of this lies the fact (and the orginal point of this discussion) that the Paintballs are the only thing that a field can realisticlly enforce as somthing that must be bought - - not brought. Thats what keeps the doors open at places where they depend on that business as their sole source of income.

Got to go to class now - - will add a little bit more later (on adam shannon's 'do it yourself' idea)



Carl

[MarkM]

Originally posted by MDethCKR
Country Club Paintball by me (IL) damn!

used to be $120 for a case of Premies!
they finally dropped to 100
but theres the 20 entry fee
and nitro fills are 3perpsi or something simular!

so lets see....130 or so?
fun day!

Well those are the same prices I got charged at a tournament they held there 4 years ago so by inflation rates that is a good deal if thats what they are charging now ;)

[runningman]

I think fields vary from area to area. There have to be good fields around. However, for me, I've just had bad experience after bad experience with fields in the Mid NJ area. The stores and fields don't give the service that some people have spoken about. Let's see, selling me broken parts that were supposed to be new, not controlling poorly behaved players. It happens time after time to the point I was so frustrated I just started playing at a semi-private field of a friend of mine. Works out good! Pooled money for an air compressor (1000) and scuba tanks. Got some junk from junk yard, ie cars, barrels, tanks, scrap and there is a field to play on. Paint is bought en masse. So prices are low. We use $40 pmi prem, $55 evil/marb/el tigre. Everyone is satified to the point I dont feel compelled to go back to a field to have another bad experience.

If anyone has any suggestions on good fields in NJ, I would give it a shot. Going to need somewhere to showoff the Xmag I am awaiting.

runningman

[Nachos]

My field charges $10 for a full day of play. I buy BigBall for $30 at the local shop and I pay $4 to fill my scuba tank.

I would not play at a rip off field like that. $100 for a case of paint? So admission and air is free.. they are still ripping you off. And I tech my own gun thank you very much, yer not touching it.

My buddy owns and runs the field I play at and he makes a profit. He is a long time baller and does it for the players as well as making enough to support himself. Theses fields only care about ripping you off, plain and simple. He makes a large sum of his profit by throwing cheap tournaments and the snack bar. 75 cents for a hot dog and 50 cents for a bag of chips, he buys in bulk and makes almost double and everyone buys it up since it's still so damn cheap. Paint is $40 a case at the field and he pays his refs with free passes and paint.

After gas it costs me $50 to play a day of paintball, charging a $100 for a case of paint is plain retarded. I wouldn't play at that field or just rip them off since two wrongs do make a right no matter what any cliche hippie tells you.