Silly Amish ...

[lopxtc]

Motorist kills tomato tosser
Thursday, September 4, 2003 Posted: 3:58 AM EDT (0758 GMT)

MOUNT HOPE, Ohio (AP) -- It's an annual prank in this tranquil Amish community, where men wear straw hats and women bonnets and plain dresses: Youngsters hide in cornfields and hurl tomatoes at passing cars.

This year, the mischief turned deadly.

A motorist who had been pelted several times on Labor Day got out of his car and fired three to five rounds into the 7-foot-high corn, killing 23-year-old Steven L. Keim.

No arrest has been made.

Residents are reeling from shock, unable to understand why anybody would retaliate so violently. Authorities say the county hadn't seen a firearm-related homicide in about three decades.

"The prank has gone on for years and years," said Marty Yoder, who owns Marty's Shoes in this town about 60 miles south of Cleveland. "All over the county it's been happening every year."

The shooting occurred just north of Mount Hope in Holmes County, where the clip-clop of horses pulling Amish buggies is just as common as the sound of passing automobiles.

Holmes County has what is believed to be the world's largest population of Amish, who do not believe in modern conveniences such as electricity and automobiles.

Keim, 23, an Apple Creek resident of Amish heritage, died of multiple wounds to the chest, Holmes County Coroner Robert Anthony said.

Keim was with about 10 other members of the Amish community, ages 15 to 23. The group told the sheriff's office they had been throwing tomatoes and firing paintball guns at passing vehicles.

The crime scene is marked by trampled corn stalks that interrupt an otherwise uniform stretch roadside corn. About eight rows into the cornfield, well hidden from the road, two buckets of rotting, fly-covered tomatoes still sat.

According to the sheriff's department, the driver of a Lincoln or Cadillac stopped, got out and threatened to shoot whoever threw the tomatoes Monday night.

The vehicle turned around and drove past the cornfield again. The car was struck with tomatoes a second time.

About 25 minutes later the vehicle passed the cornfield two more times. On a third pass, the driver stopped and challenged the group to throw more tomatoes -- then fired his shotgun into the cornfield.

The sheriff's department did not have a suspect, only a vague description of a middle-aged male of medium height.

Residents say the community will be nervous until the shooter is caught.

"People won't be resting too good until they know who it is at least," said Ivan Miller, 41. "He should be punished. The guy lost it."

Wayne Miller, an Amish man from nearby Kidron, said the young people "shouldn't have been throwing tomatoes."

"But if people start shooting people for throwing tomatoes, this country's in bad shape," he said.

Keim was born into an Amish family, but his family left the Amish church and became Mennonites, said Yoder.

Mennonites share similar beliefs with the Amish, but drive cars and use more modern conveniences.

"He was a real outgoing person, always willing to help you," Yoder said.


A couple things to note here ....

1 -- The Amish, who shun technology, were throwing tomato's and shooting paintball guns?!?!?!? Guess they were using mechanical pump guns and not electro's huh ....

2 -- The guy fired 3-5 rounds blindly into the corn and hit the Amish guy multiple times?? Hell dont arrest this guy put him on SWAT or sniper team somewhere ... I know cops who fail to pass their basic static firearms course.

Aaron

[einhander619]

Sounds like "Amish Paradise" meets "Gangsta's Paradise." I don't care what background you come from, if someone will threaten to kill you for something as trivial as throwing tomatoes, they are probably crazy/stupid enough to do it.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by lopxtc

2 -- The guy fired 3-5 rounds blindly into the corn and hit the Amish guy multiple times?? Hell dont arrest this guy put him on SWAT or sniper team somewhere ... I know cops who fail to pass their basic static firearms course.

Aaron

It doesn't say blindly any where. It says shot gun. Depending on the spread and size of the shot, you wouldn't have too aim much to hit anyone at close range.

-just fyi

[graycie]

sounds contradictory amish

[ntn4502]

It happened less then 5 minutes from my hometown, everyone there know that it was more of a tradition. The family of the family used to work at the same place I did...its pretty crazy

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by lopxtc
[b]1 -- The Amish, who shun technology, were throwing tomato's and shooting paintball guns?!?!?!? Guess they were using mechanical pump guns and not electro's huh ....


My thoughts exactly. I hope they were using CO2. If it was compressed air, I feel real bad for that hamster that had to run the compressor up to 4500psi!;)

[lopxtc]

Yeah that would be my bad ... I read in the top where it says 3-5 shots ... didnt go all the way down to see where it said it was with a shot-gun.

Aaron


Originally posted by JEDI


It doesn't say blindly any where. It says shot gun. Depending on the spread and size of the shot, you wouldn't have too aim much to hit anyone at close range.

-just fyi

[Warewolf50]

This story should teach you all a lesson, throwing tomatoes at a guys car after he has threatened to kill your several times is not the best idea.

[trev_pbller]

My take on this, and coming from a 15 year old, I can understand yeah ok, it was a tradition, pranks are ok at a young age, but I would never throw tomatoes or shoot at cars because #1, my dad deals in cars and would shoot me if I did, no pun intended, and #2 If the guy drove by multiple times after threatning, he gave them plenty of chances to quit. Maybe it was as much the kids fault as the guy doing the shooting, I don't blame him. I can understand kids having fun, but don't push it. JMO,

Trev

[JEDI]

Yeah... I certainly dont condone the fact the the guy opened fire on them, but maybe the jack-a$$es should consider giving up such an idiotic tradition. The tables could have been turned, and they could have caused an accident. Its stupid, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

[-=Squid=-]

I heard about that from my mom. Paintball guns? Doesnt sound to amish to me... :rolleyes:

[m-98]

The Amish can use technology such as paintball guns, but they can't own things like that, I believe.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by m-98
The Amish can use technology such as paintball guns, but they can't own things like that, I believe.

Even worse then. You are telling me they were using rentals?:eek: How did they get to the fields to rent the markers?:confused:

[pntblr2k]

Actually mister JEDI "you wouldnt have to aim much at all" you would have to aim at close range. the further the shot travels the more it spreads, from close range you'd have to aim at the person. and also JEDI they do have someone else to blame besides themselves, you get a tomatoe thrown at your car so you kill a guy thats a litte extreme the shooter had to be a damn fool to pull a stunt like that.

[bornl33t]

actually the guy that was killed wansn't even amish. He was a menonite. And amish don't shun tecnology, they just refuse to OWN anything they don't make. My granpa often gives them rides into town and lets them borrow his phone.
Also from what I understand it was a town tradition that kids would throw tomatos at cars every year this has been going on for a while.

BUT


If you are that much of a moron to keep doing it AFTER some one tells you he doesn't like it.. .then yeah, I believe he in suvival or the fittest. What a idiot sheeesh

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by Heat
actually the guy that was killed wansn't even amish. He was a menonite. And amish don't shun tecnology, they just refuse to OWN anything they don't make. My granpa often gives them rides into town and lets them borrow his phone.
Also from what I understand it was a town tradition that kids would throw tomatos at cars every year this has been going on for a while.

BUT


If you are that much of a moron to keep doing it AFTER some one tells you he doesn't like it.. .then yeah, I believe he in suvival or the fittest. What a idiot sheeesh

First let me say don't try and grasp the Amish because there is actually a lot to it. There are varying levels of Amish. Conservative Amish do shun technology, and it has nothing to do with what they can and can't make, hence they have blacksmiths and such. Then on the other side there are "Beachy" Amish and they drive cars. I've lived by Kalona, IA all my life and still dont get it. But saying one thing applies to all Amish usually isnt the case. As far as I know Mennonites dont have any technology restrictions though.

Now, this guy drove past multiple times, to aggitate the situation. If they do catch him, hes going in for Murder 1 because he was stupid enough to make several passes before making his attack. Anyone who thinks that a few tomatoes hitting their car is justifiable homocide, I can only hope you're never on a jury.

[bornl33t]

ermmm, welp, I'll be standing infront of your house tomorow chucking tomatos everytime you drive by.... see what you think about it... You don't happen to own a nice vette or anything do ya?
Before you let loose on me let me explain. If you've ever owned a car you liked, you'll know what throwing stuff... even out of tradition, at cars is just plain dumb. Last winter my car was hit by a snow ball. I came to a screeching halt and jumped out only to see the kids run away. Little brats were laughing till I jumped out.

And about the amish. I wasn't trying to understand them, don't think I could if I wanted to. But your right, just like most religions there are veriing degrees of commitment.

Either way it sounds like they were both handing out. So I don't feel sorry for the kid ( it's a crying shame ) nor will I feel sorry for the guy if/when he's caught. Just make sure YOU teach YOUR kids not to do that. Does everyone at least agree with me they need to teach their own kids not to throw tomatos at cars?

[JEDI]

Originally posted by pntblr2k
Actually mister JEDI "you wouldnt have to aim much at all" you would have to aim at close range. the further the shot travels the more it spreads, from close range you'd have to aim at the person. and also JEDI they do have someone else to blame besides themselves, you get a tomatoe thrown at your car so you kill a guy thats a litte extreme the shooter had to be a damn fool to pull a stunt like that.

:D What are you, Mr. Wizard? Is this science class? It was a shot gun. All I stated was that the story never said he shot blindly into the corn feild. He probably did aim. Regardless though, with a shot gun, you have a better chance of hitting someone no matter what the range being that the shot spreads.

And like a said, I dont condone the shooting, or think it was rational, but in this sick world, if you don't want trouble, don't invite it. Just because it was a "traditional prank" doesn't take the blame off the tomato chuckers. Shooting was very extreme, but I wouldn't be surprised if instead, the guy jumped out, chased someone down, and bloodied his face damn good. Thats what I would do.

[ShooterJM]

Not too bright for a 23 yr old. Guess stupidity does hurt.

Feel sorry for his family though. :(

[FalconGuy016]

I wouldnt throw things at a car after being told repeatidly not too, and not only that... to death threats. However, shooting into the field was not the answer on the driver's side either... a lose lose situation. Id just haev run after them with a bat, or at the very LEAST shoot into the AIR.

[RobAGD]

You know if people would consider the reaction of others when they do things, we would not have the problem we see today.

They should not have been throwing things at the car, the ower reacted to THAT. If his car had not been pelted with rotten tomatos that kid would still be alive, BUT he made the rather poor dissision to pelt cars with fruit and veggies ( depends on how you catagorize tomatos ).

Cause and effect deal with what you cause.

-Robert

Something to think about. If you knew that if you did something wrong and the punishment would be 5 to 10 licks with a rattan cane in a public square would that deture you from doing it ?

[TransMan]

wonder if we will see a decline in tomato throwing next year... i think there should be some sort of study...

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by Heat
ermmm, welp, I'll be standing infront of your house tomorow chucking tomatos everytime you drive by.... see what you think about it... You don't happen to own a nice vette or anything do ya?
Before you let loose on me let me explain. If you've ever owned a car you liked, you'll know what throwing stuff... even out of tradition, at cars is just plain dumb. Last winter my car was hit by a snow ball. I came to a screeching halt and jumped out only to see the kids run away. Little brats were laughing till I jumped out.

And about the amish. I wasn't trying to understand them, don't think I could if I wanted to. But your right, just like most religions there are veriing degrees of commitment.

Either way it sounds like they were both handing out. So I don't feel sorry for the kid ( it's a crying shame ) nor will I feel sorry for the guy if/when he's caught. Just make sure YOU teach YOUR kids not to do that. Does everyone at least agree with me they need to teach their own kids not to throw tomatos at cars?

Funny you should mention it, but I do own a ZR1 vette(well half my dad owns the other half). You know what I'd do if Amish kids hit it with tomatoes? Go wash it. I thought you're the one teaching summer Bible Camp and you get worked up over material poccessions?

There are communities where pranks just happen that are tradition and getting all worked up over them isnt going to stop them. My house will be TPed every damn homecoming, and I don't think the appropriate response is shooting someone. Its a prank, it can be cleaned up, shooting someone with a shotgun is not even a remotely sane solution. You think murder vs criminal mischief is both handing it out? That's like saying we should nuke Saudi Arabia because a lot of the hijackers came from there, they aren't remotely on the same level.

Finally, kids are pretty much immune to the law, deal with it. You touch a minor because he snowballed your car, have fun in jail when their parents sue you. I'm not saying that's right, but that is how the system is.

[trev_pbller]

Um, No. Sorry, if my vette or my dad's other cars that have any value at all got pelted with tomatoes, I wouldn't just go wash it off. I don't think you would either. If a kid threw tomatoes at a 60k dollar car, he would seriously pay. Especially if any damage was done. So your telling me I could walk up to your ZR1 and just lob a couple tomatoes at it and walk away?

Trev

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Pokaris

we should nuke Saudi Arabia because a lot of the hijackers came from there

Okay, if you insist. I'll agree with you!;) :p

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by trev_pbller
Um, No. Sorry, if my vette or my dad's other cars that have any value at all got pelted with tomatoes, I wouldn't just go wash it off. I don't think you would either. If a kid threw tomatoes at a 60k dollar car, he would seriously pay. Especially if any damage was done. So your telling me I could walk up to your ZR1 and just lob a couple tomatoes at it and walk away?

Trev

That's what I said isnt it? You might want to work on your reading comprehension. What are you going to do to a kid? Like I said there's a good chance if you touch him you're gonna end up in court, is a $10 car wash or going to court the more sensible solution. You might try calling the cops, but I doubt they are gonna devote a lot of time into petty vandalism investigation.

[trev_pbller]

No, I actually can read pretty good. No matter what, 10$ car wash or court fees, no one gets away with that. This guy wasn't a kid though, was he? 23 I believe? Over 16,18,21 isn't he? Although yes I agree, the cops aren't going to do a thing. Personal satisfaction and persuation I guess is the only reason I would pursue the kid who pelted my car. Again, its only an opinion.

Trev

[UltimatePaintballer]

yea heard about that, not cool

[bornl33t]

well, I'm not sure what VBS has to do with material posesions. And I had no intension on laying any hands on any minors, even though I did want to speak with their parents. But it wasn't THAT important that I would run after them. And I owned a very nice mustang for several years, I park it at the way back of the parking lot cause I didn't want me to puposly door the car, just because it's nice and they don't own it.

And to top it off, this was a small town, there was more then likly no drive in car wash so who knows what it would have taken to get the tomato off his car and we all know tomatos are acidic. They will leave a stain if not washed off promptly.

[Rooster]

"Finally, kids are pretty much immune to the law, deal with it. "

And yet they don't seem to be immune to a shotgun blast. You do something stupid like that, and you better be ready to pay a price. While shooting someone becuase they hit you with a tomato isn't quite right, I feel no sympathy for this fool. They had four chances to stop, and they didn't. Hopefully these stupid kids think about getting shot before they try something similar again.

[Stotic]

Out of all the people to give paintball another bad image...

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by trev_pbller
No, I actually can read pretty good. No matter what, 10$ car wash or court fees, no one gets away with that. This guy wasn't a kid though, was he? 23 I believe? Over 16,18,21 isn't he? Although yes I agree, the cops aren't going to do a thing. Personal satisfaction and persuation I guess is the only reason I would pursue the kid who pelted my car. Again, its only an opinion.

Trev

Ok so you pursue the kids into the cornfield, now some of them are under 18 and some are over. What do you do? Try and guess appropriately and if you're wrong end up in court? I don't get a lot of personal satisfaction from getting sued, but maybe that's just me. It's expensive and wastes my time. What if you catch them and they are all minors? Is having to wash your car a big enough challenge that its worth several thousand in court costs? That just seems moronic in my opinion.

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by Heat
well, I'm not sure what VBS has to do with material posesions. And I had no intension on laying any hands on any minors, even though I did want to speak with their parents. But it wasn't THAT important that I would run after them. And I owned a very nice mustang for several years, I park it at the way back of the parking lot cause I didn't want me to puposly door the car, just because it's nice and they don't own it.

And to top it off, this was a small town, there was more then likly no drive in car wash so who knows what it would have taken to get the tomato off his car and we all know tomatos are acidic. They will leave a stain if not washed off promptly.



A tomato isnt going to damage your paint in a matter of minutes, it doesn't have the molarity. Plus that's why you have clear coat. What if the kids won't tell you who their parents are? You just gonna stand there and yell at them? As I said its a lot easier to let it go and go wash your car.

[trev_pbller]

What I think moronic is, sir, you have no pills below.

[bornl33t]

Originally posted by Pokaris




A tomato isnt going to damage your paint in a matter of minutes, it doesn't have the molarity. Plus that's why you have clear coat. What if the kids won't tell you who their parents are? You just gonna stand there and yell at them? As I said its a lot easier to let it go and go wash your car.

I don't like playing what if games and I'm tired of trying to explain myself when I really have nothing to explain. You win.

[skife]

the driver of a Lincoln or Cadillac stopped, got out and threatened to shoot whoever threw the tomatoes Monday night


Stupid kids
the guy threatened to shoot
They deserved it

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by skife



Stupid kids
the guy threatened to shoot
They deserved it

Are you serious? Do you have any idea of what justifiable force entails? Apparently you like a lot of people have never been to court.

YOU CAN NOT SHOOT SOMEONE FOR THROWING A TOMATO AT YOU. Even if you warn them. Maybe if you're deathly allergic to tomatos, but as far as I know there is no car with a tomato allergy.

Stop breathing or I'll shoot you.
Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I gave you fair warning so it's legal.Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by trev_pbller
What I think moronic is, sir, you have no pills below.

How would not wanting to be sued prove that? Also, how would not having any "pills" relate in any way to intelligence. Seriously, go find someone that's got some mental capacity and have them proof read your insults in the future.

[trev_pbller]

No, actually my grammar is pretty good. Along with my reading, but I'm with Heat. You win. You are the master. You have such mental capacity that it makes me feel small. Not. That one comeback was great, "A tomatoe does not have enough molarity to take the paint off of a car in minutes." Good one, please go back to chemistry class, because this isn't it. Never once did your awesome insults really insult me. But, I have to hand it to you, you sure don't give up easy. My prior statement still stands though.

Trev

[bornl33t]

Originally posted by trev_pbller
No, actually my grammar is pretty good. Along with my reading, but I'm with Heat. You win. You are the master. You have such mental capacity that it makes me feel small. Not. That one comeback was great, "A tomatoe does not have enough molarity to take the paint off of a car in minutes." Good one, please go back to chemistry class, because this isn't it. Never once did your awesome insults really insult me. But, I have to hand it to you, you sure don't give up easy. My prior statement still stands though.

Trev
yeah, ummmmm, I actually meant that in the most humble, un insulting way really. I just made a comment, it was my opinion. pokaris is entitled to his. The only reason I repied a few times was to see if he could be reasoned with. I'm fine with his opinion on the matter and I saw no reason to continue arguing. I sugjest you take the same stand... cause really this thread is just asking to be closed. I just don't want any excesive banning going on.


oh yaeh, while I was at he junkyard today I did some tomato tests. I took the tomato out of my double whopper and slapped it to a decent side of a 2003 taurus that was wrecked. After 15 min I pulled it back of and wiped it clean with a rag. Guess what? the paint was discolored. cause that could have been something in the whopper too. I hear Burger king sticks some special "special sauce" in their burgers....

the whole story isn't true I just wanted to talk about the special sauce in whoppers :D

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by trev_pbller
No, actually my grammar is pretty good. Along with my reading, but I'm with Heat. You win. You are the master. You have such mental capacity that it makes me feel small. Not. That one comeback was great, "A tomatoe does not have enough molarity to take the paint off of a car in minutes." Good one, please go back to chemistry class, because this isn't it. Never once did your awesome insults really insult me. But, I have to hand it to you, you sure don't give up easy. My prior statement still stands though.

Trev

That statement had nothing to do with grammar, it was a suggestion that you have someone check to see if your insults made any sense. Now I'm not sure you can grasp elementary logic but I'll give it a try. Let's assume that I'm moronic, we'll take this as a given(might as well make this as simple as possible). Now can you provide any sort of steps that link being moronic to having "no pills"? I am unaware of any data to support this.

The statement "a tomato does not have the molarity to take the paint off a car in minutes" is not an insult or a come back. Obviously if you can't grasp what a statement of fact is, I don't think you'll be able to logically prove what I asked for above.

Why would I give up? You keep spewing name calling and touting your grammar abilities, but have never disproven anything I've said other than to question my "pills" Maybe that is an all encompassing winner where you live, but I assure you that's not how it is most places.

[trev_pbller]

lmao

[Pokaris]

Originally posted by trev_pbller
lmao

Ignorance is bliss.

[trev_pbller]

It sure is.