Will elcd fit on an RT?

[Thumper33]

I'm giving you guys a lot to read about today :D I just wanna say I appreciate the help!

So... I bought a classic mag w/ elcd with the intent to move the elcd trigger over to my RT. Has anyone put an elcd on their RT?

The hole where the field service screw goes through isn't big enough for the bigger "banjo" bolt that the RT has. This frame obviously wasn't made to go on the RT. I figure I can drill out this hole so it will fit, but am I going to have other issues?

I know the elcd has it's own bolt bumper that you're supposed to install instead of the stock one. Also, they give you a new on/off valve. It seems to fit into the RT valve just fine, but do I want to use it or the stock RT on-off. What does the Boo-Ya on-off do differently?

Anyway, I'm hoping that this will be a fun gun with the new lvl 10 installed and the elcd...

Mike

[paintballbeaver]

yes it will takes a little coaxing and a drill press but they do

first you sand off the rails on top of the frame, to make it sit flush

then bore out the feild strip screw size to fit the one on the rt :) then your in bis :) have fun

[Thumper33]

okay, so I filed it down and drilled the hole larger and it all fits...

But..

When I hook up the tank it seems to fire one shot and then won't do anything.

I have the bumper that came with the elcd installed along with the on/off that came with it.

I just got the marker working great w/ the lvl 10 and these are the only things I've changed since then.

Mike

[Thumper33]

so I figured since I didn't have any other advice I'd try to use the original on/off and see what happens...

It cocks and then pulling the trigger does nothing.

I can see that the solenoid is all the way out and I can't seem to push it even by hand.

[paintballbeaver]

actually electronics is not my department you may wanna talk to

hostage

hes the offical bop yah mako fixer

[Thumper33]

After reading his FAQ, I have determined the following...

I need to use the on/off that came w/ the elcd.

Hostage suggests the following: "Can the booyaah work with the ReTro-Valve? Yes it can, you need to replace the oring with the a white teflon oring." Which oring is he talking about?

I took it all apart and reassembled it to make sure I didn't miss anything. It still fires a shot automatically when I gas up, and then apparently doesn't recock. The bolt does look like it's in the right position, it just doesn't do anything when I pull the trigger.

I also took the picture below of the on-off that I'm using if you see anything wrong with it...

http://offroadtoystore.com/pictures/other/on-off.JPG

Mike

[cgrieves]

With the Hyperframe you change the on/off pin O ring (the one the pin shaft sits in) with a harder one to give less friction on the pin. Not sure but it sounds like the same thing with the ELCD.

[Thumper33]

well... in the picture above you can see pretty much everything. The oring sitting on the table second from the right is the one that goes in first. it's a standard oring. The one that I think you're talking about is the one actually in the on/off that you can see that's in there. it is a white teflon oring. Should I change the other one to teflon as well?

Mike

[Thumper33]

Okay, new update... I figured that maybe I'd oil the crap out of the on/off to see if that helped.

IT DID!!!

Now at least it doesn't pop a shot off as soon as I gas it up, so that's a step in the right direction. However, it still won't fire w/ the trigger unless I push the solenoid forward by hand. I put a new battery in yesterday while tinkering so the battery should still have enough oomph. It is just a 9 volt duracell though.

Is it possible that it's something to do with the lvl 10 I just installed? Perhaps the spring that's on there requires too much force for the solenoid to push the sear off of it.

Heck, at least I'm closer than I was. I couldn't even push the solenoid before I oiled the on/off.

Mike

[hostage]

Hey bro,

1. I am sure someone here no AO would be more than happy to give you a teflon oring from a Automag parts kit, I have almost all the orings except the teflon one (ran out). You said you have a classic valve, use the teflon oring that comes with the classic valve. You will see two in the classic, get the smaller teflon and place that in your ReTro valve/RT valve. Then you should have it no problem :D
EDIT: it is the oring that goes into the on/off cavity and that the pin slides in and out of.

2. Use the Level 10 bumper.

3. You can use either the booyaah on/off or the retro on/off. (I am actually using a E-Mag on/off pin in mine). Even the centerflag on/off will work.

4. If you want to have no worries about power any more you can do the 9.6v mod. It will cost yah about 25-30 bucks and trip to radio shack.
A. NIMH 9.6v 1000+ mAh w/ charger
B. 9.6v power connectors replacements
C. Standard 9v replacement connectors

Installing the mod
(this can work on all other 9.6v using grip frames)

One. Clear work area blah blah blah...

Two. get the female 9.6 and connect it to a 9v connector. Make sure to put the negative to the postive and the postive to the negative.

Three. Place NIMH battery inside your tank cover and connect it to the battery.

Four. Open the grip frame connect the two 9v connectors together. You will see the negative going to the postive side. That will be okay, since we flipped it earlier.

Five. Close the grip frame and TADA!

Good luck,
Doron

[Thumper33]

Well, I just tried charging up my 9.6 and installing the teflon o-ring from the classic, then oiling everything up to make it as smooth as possible and still no fire. :(

There isn't anything to change in the sear is there?

I've got one more chance. I've got an RT Pro and I'm going to see if I can get it to work on this. I really don't know why it'd be any different except that I can install a ULT on it if I need to.

Also, I tried the RT on/off and it'll fire one shot but won't fire a second. That's kinda weird.

Anyway... I'm going to try the whole setup on the RT pro now.

[Thumper33]

Ok, this is weird. With the RT Pro's stock on/off It would fire with the trigger about 1/2 the time. I'm going to order the ULT for it and see if that does the trick.

Oh, and I just noticed that you said use the level 10 bumper. The level 10 doesn't come with a bumper does it?

Mike

[paintballbeaver]

make sure your giving the gun enoughf pressure it may not be kicking back the sear so the selinoid will fire

[Thumper33]

I have the grip off so I can see all the insides of the elcd as I pull the trigger. It will fire every time if I just push the solenoid forward instead of pulling the trigger. I don't think it could be the pressure if that were the case. Right?

Mike

[Big'n slo]

I'm not familiar with the elcd frame but is there a set screw for adjusting the soleniod?

[hostage]

sometimes it's good to try to "break the [oring] in". just take it out and put the on/off pin through it a few times. Also try increaseing the pulse to 15. That might help. Otherwise if you are using the old 9v then it might not be powerful enough to mess with it. Lastly go easy on the oil. I don't use oil in mine other than putting a few drops in the valve every so often.
-Doron

[Thumper33]

oops.. I was going heavy on the oil. I figured more to lube with. I'll rub it down w/ something to clean it off.

I'll try the pulse length too. I should get my new battery in the mail on Friday. We'll see if that helps.

Mike

[cgrieves]

humper, sorry I haven't got back to this thread, I deleted all my thread subscriptions by mistake!

I have heard that the level 10 can cause firing problems when using an e-frame with a classic valve, but normally there's no problem with RT style valves. I use the standard RT on/off assembly and pin on my Level 10 Hypermag (with Retro valve). Since you can fire the marker manually I would suggest that the solenoid simply isn't providing enough push to fire the marker. More voltage will help and should be safe as the ELCD uses a higher rated capacitor than the Hyperframe if I recall correctly (18 volts I think, although don't quote me on that). Whether the board electronics will be safe at much higher voltages I'm not sure....

Also for experimentation's sake, try going back to a L7 bolt and see if it fires.

You could also try adjusting the solenoid to make sure it hits the sear square on. Some Hyperframe users found that leaving a small gap between the solenoid plunger and the sear leg solved the problem as it allowed the plunger to move slightly and gain a little momentum. Be careful if you do this, and check regularly for bolt wear as the short solenoid throw sometimes causes the sear to chip the bolt. On the Hyperframe you can loosen the solenoid screws and move it around, I guess the ELCD is similar.

The Hyperframe comes with a much harder on/off pin O-ring which provides less friction than the AGD teflon item. Mine actually works fine with the standard O-ring but I used the Centerflag ring anyway.

Also I'm not sure about ELCDs but the Hyperframe has a solenoid power setting, the idea being once the O-rings have worn in you can lower the setting and get more shots per battery. If the ELCD has it, then make sure it's set to the highest setting.

Good luck!

[Thumper33]

thanks...

I've got a ULT on order so I can try that. I figure it can't hurt anything, and would only make it easier on the solenoid.

I appreciate the help. We'll see what the ULT and new battery do.

Thanks guys.

Mike

[cgrieves]

Originally posted by Thumper33
I've got a ULT on order so I can try that. I figure it can't hurt anything, and would only make it easier on the solenoid.

Yeah, I reckon that's the best solution. I've not seen it first hand but I've heard of a Hyperframe user who had great results with the ULT. Let us know how you get on!

[Thumper33]

Well, ULT should be here tomorrow, but I just figured out that it doesn't fit my mag... see this thread...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101581

[cgrieves]

Damn that's a shame :(

You could get your valve milled, this shouldn't cost much at all. Also have you thought about trading your valve in for an X?

[Thumper33]

I'm going to go research this a bit more now, but what does an x-valve do that the RT doesn't?

I see that it's all aluminum. I guess that means lighter. Anyone know how much?
I also see that it comes w/ a lvl 10 bolt. I already have one, but I guess I can sell my RT valve instead of trading it in.

[SocialD]

An X-valve won't work in a classic RT.

[cgrieves]

Good point, I keep forgetting you have a classic RT. Looks like milling is your best option....

[Thumper33]

I actually have 2 guns right now...

Classic RT and RT Pro. The RT Pro is the one with the old school stainless valve so that's why the ULT won't work on it.

Mike

[SocialD]

So, are you putting the ELCD on the Classic RT or the RT-Pro? Your first post leads me to believe that you are putting on the Classic because you said that you drilled it out for the banjo bolt.

[Thumper33]

I was originally trying to put it on the RT Classic, but I found I needed the ULT to make it work. I thought the ULT would only work on the Pro so I ordered it. Now I find out that I'll need to either mill or get the x-valve to get it to work on the Pro as well, so I guess that's what I'm going to do. This is crazy, but right now here's what I have on order...

ULT
X-valve
ULE body (might as well while I'm at it)
cocker threaded DYE ultralite (need this 'cause my old barrel won't fit now)
New 9.6 NiMH battery

This should make things run, and hopefully run well.

[hostage]

hrmm you never told me about the classic part! so you drilled part of the frame out so you could use the banjo bolt? Also if it is a flat frame you may have to mill off the grove on the booyaah. The booyaah was intended for the classic Automag68.
-Doron

[Thumper33]

Yes, I milled the ridges off the frame and drilled out the hole for the banjo bolt. Since I've decided to use it on the RTPro instead I didn't have to drill out that bolt... Oh well. It works just fine either way. I've thought about making a spacer to fill back in that part if it does slide around on the frame but I don't think it will.

[hostage]

hrmm there might be tolurence issues to blaim here. Though the problem seems like it may be mainly power. I had issues such as that when I used low powered 9v's.
-Doron

[Thumper33]

Just a short update...

I'm still waiting on the ULT so I can't see if this is going to work yet, but I got the ULE and X valve in earlier this morning. I'm amazed at how much weight those two mods take off of the setup.

Also, I found a heck of a deal on 14" DYE barrels w/ cocker threads. A guy on ebay has an auction for both and ultralight and boomstick for $119 buy it now. Works for me.

I'm really pretty excited. If all this works here's my new setup:

RT Pro
elcd
ULE
ULT
X-Valve
Ultralight
Egg II
47/3000 crossfire

I just need to get a carbon bottle and it'll be sweet :)

[Thumper33]

I just wanted to double thank everyone that brought me this far... hostage, social d, cgrieves, Big'n slo, paintballbeaver, and everyone else... I owe ya one :)

Yes, I spent about $500 more than I had planned to get it done, but the elcd works perfect now! I can't say enough how happy I am about how light the setup is now. I'm almost out of air and don't have my cocker threaded barrel yet, so I can't test it other than the fact that the elcd will finally push the sear. I'm anxious to see what it'll do once I get everything put back together.

Thanks all!

Mike

[hostage]

glad to help, were here any time ;)

also shows a pic of it when you get a chance

I can also suggest some mods to you that will improve the performance of booyaah ;)


g/l
-Doron

[Thumper33]

I have read your FAQ and DIY. I'm going to see what I think of it as is before I start playing with things. This'll give me a good place to start :D. I will certainly get back in touch with you in a month or two when I'm ready to move ahead with some more of that stuff.



I'll post a new pic as soon as I get a barrel on it. It's still a bit in the nude ;)

I also would like to redo the macro line. It's a bit short.

http://www.offroadtoystore.com/pictures/other/left.JPG

http://www.offroadtoystore.com/pictures/other/right.JPG

I obviously need to get a longer macroline on there too. After I put the drop forward on there the old line is too short.

I also need to paint the grip bracket black. I've never painted stainless before. Will it stick?

Anyway...

Thanks!

Mike

[SocialD]

Did you ever make a bushing for the grip frame to fix the hole that you drilled out for the banjo bolt? Let me know if you didn't, because I think that I might have one that I made out of delrin. I'll have to see if I can find it.

BTW, good work with the frame. I always enjoy it when someone takes the time and effort to get something to work in a new way.

[paintballbeaver]

No prob anytime :)

[Thumper33]

I haven't done anything with that spacer since I drilled it out. I have some delrin actually sitting around, but I"m sure sure it'd be fun to make it the right size.

Mike

[Thumper33]

here's a pic complete w/ the ultralight barrel :D

http://www.offroadtoystore.com/pictures/other/complete.JPG

anyone know how to make paint stick on stainless steel? I've never tried to paint it before, but I'm sure paint won't stick very well.

[SocialD]

I would consider getting the bracket powder coated. It will cost you a little more, but it will look nicer and last longer than spray paint. However, if you are set on painting the thing you'll probably need to sand it first to give the primer something to stick to. After you sand it a little, clean it very well. Then, primer coat it. Then, paint it. Spray it with several thin coats to prevent the paint from running. Give it a little time between coats to allow the paint to dry some. Then, apply the next coat. Repeat as necessary.

[cgrieves]

Glad you got it all working, looks great! :)