future AO'er ( paintball sketch)

[Konigballer]

Got bored and did a "tournement paintballer of the future" type concept. All of this could be developed at the present I think. The marker would take some time though. It would be a sort of "tournement standard equipment" for future televised arena events, if that ever happens of course...

Since I wanted all furture tourney markers to fire 20+bps, much better protection would be a must. The "suit" would be something similar to a surfers wet suit but reenforced at certain areas for full body protection. The aditional "body armor" would just be high impact plastic similar to football pads fore even better protection from the streams of paint flying lacing across the fields. Colored tape can just be aplied over the armored portions for easy team indentification. The facemask would need to evolve along the lines of motorcycle helmets except composing of two parts so the front could open up, like a midevial helmet's visor, when off the field. This is because its a hassle to repeatedly take of a helmet just to get a drink of water. In helmet comunication would be built inside for the team and for TV viewers to "get in the game" more. Theres also a tiny helmet cam to enhance the TV viewer's experience and so teams can analize player performance and mistakes.

The marker was just my fervent wish for manufacturers to produce a more streamlined marker were the loader, gun, air system and warp feed are all centralized and contained within the marker from the start. You could make the shell and pieces that hold it all together out of hight impact plastics with steel and aluminum internals, not BE plastic mind you. Oh well...maybe oneday.

[Steelrat]

Man I envy your skill, thats a GREAT drawing.

That paintball marker looks a LOT like a FN P90 submachine gun. I think that once paintball marker manufacturers start thinking outside the box, we may begin to see radical designs like that. Much like the P90 is radically different from more conventional submachine guns i.e. HK MP5.

[acecl22]

nice figure, it all sounds feasible(sp) with todays technology, and the best step would probably be the helmet/mask, because as it is now, our field of vision is slightly impaired

[Konigballer]

About the P90 or something similarly groundbreaking like
HK's G11 being examples of "out of the box" thinking, I totally agree with you Steerat. I wish the paintball industry had a fraction of the budget and resources of major automakers and gun manufacturers. Leading companies in those industries have millions to spend on major R&D projects and inovations. If paintball manufacturers did, inovation would increase dramatically in paintball.

[darklord]

did you do that on the computer? It looks way too "perfect" for freehand... anyway, you're really talented, are you a professional? If not, I would highly recommend pursuing a career in illustration. I'm going to art school right now, and I can't even push out drawings that even come close to that in quality (illustrations are not my forté, I wish they were though :D).

Interesting ideas. So what would happen, would tournies evolve and recball stay relatively the same? Who knows, but you definitely have a few ideas that are worth thinking about... kudos

[Konigballer]

yeah its freehand. If you blow it up you'll see my inking sucks. What art school you going to? I'm at SCAD, but you might be going to a better one than that. What do you wannt to major in?

[FreakBaller12]

nice nice drawing

the gun looks liek a big blob tho lol

[FalconGuy016]

Hey great drawing!

I really like your ideas, especially on transforming paintball into a tv friendly sport. The only thing I wouldnt think feasable are the more plating style suit, because of flexbility and playing tight to your bunkers and so forth. I doubt it would evolve from jerseys much more, because that really isnt a spot in the sport that has many issues on higher levels of paintball. But everything else rocks :) lol

[BradAGD]

Dude, that's awesome! I totally wish I could draw.

but one question...is the dude playing with a hit? Look at his left thigh...

[Mag Master 04]

my inking blows too...lol i dunno where i wanna go for art school yet, and im a senior this year...eeekkk

[Steelrat]

One thing is for sure. You are not going to find that getup hanging on a shelf at WalMart for $99.95.

[Konigballer]

your right :), tournement level play would be more expensive with this stuff but sense its meant for a future era of televised games, I would think the sponsors could help with the tab. Hopefully the players wouldnt end up resembling moving billboards like NASCAR.

I just put the hit on the guy's leg to give him some visual conection to actually playing paintball. I guess he does look like he's cheatin' :)

[Spartan X]

Looks like halo on X-box

[Army]

Looks like someone reads/emulates a lot of Morpheus?

Don't matter, it looks great.

[SIGSays]

wish i could draw like that? but how would you know if you were out? little sensors?

[luke]

It's great art work, but with all that armor you might as well be playing lazer tag. :)

[FutureMagOwner]

that reminds me of more of a tribes/planetside look rather then halo but very very nice :)

[Benfica4ever]

:eek: :eek: :eek: wow:eek: :eek: :eek:

[edweird]

He is Playing on REF!!!!!!

Check his leg ref!
Check his leg!

[Python14]

LOL, Can anyone say BADASS? I would give alot to have a uniform like that. Reminds me heavily of Planetside...or HALO. Regardless, I also like the little JT logo.:D

[the_next_guy_]

sweet drawing, but there is no way you could get me to wear that. Im hot enough playing in a T-shirt and shorts. Or you could build in an A/C.

[spydervenom]

thats freakin awesome.

although i really dont see paintball getting to where we need any sort of armor...unless we de-evolve and our skin gets weaker.


but regardless, you have more drawing talent in your eye lash than i have in my whole body :P

[GatoLoco]

NICE drawing man, I would think that there would be less padding and a thinner suit (by today's standards that suit would be probably illegal) Do not take this as a bash AT ALL!!! this is an excellent drawing, you are extremely talented

[Konigballer]

I'm going to do a sketch with a guy comin' round a bunker and lighting a guy up from like three feet.

In this "furture painball universe" I wanted more full auto markers allowed cept there would be regulation for their usage in these tournies. Their would be markers with standardized legal rates of full auto fire depending on the position of the player. Equipment specialization, kind of like lacross. This more agressive full auto realm would, I would think?, force the usage of some kind on "armor" on certain areas of the body for increased protection. In my sketch the player getting lit up is going to catch a blizzard of paint from very short range and in the real world I would want him to be able to take that and shrug it off, not scream and start a fight with the guy:)

Question: can someone tell me the usual makeup of a 5 and 10 man team. How many play back, mid, and front. Thanks

[darklord]

Originally posted by Konigballer
yeah its freehand. If you blow it up you'll see my inking sucks. What art school you going to? I'm at SCAD, but you might be going to a better one than that. What do you wannt to major in?

I'm going to the College of Fine Arts at Boston University. What'd you use to color, watercolor? I am very impressed. I'm a freshman though, so I'm sure my skills will improve later :p What year are you in?

[-=Squid=-]

That REALLY is a great picture man! I also wish they would incorparate hoppers and guns, not like an a5, but more sleek and faster. Only problem with the picture is his upper torso makes him appear still, but looking at his legs he is clearly hauling *** :) But very very nice drawing.

[Konigballer]

darklord- i just used Micron pens , size1 'n 5, to ink and used Prismacolor markers from their "cool grey" set. I used the 10%,20%, and 30% grey markers. If u dont have that set u should get it, makes any sketch pop without much effort. I'm about to do a year of grad here. Good luck up there, I'd much rather be in Boston than "hot as ballz Savannah".

Squid- your right:) I put my little spiderman action figure in the pose and by the time I inked my drawing I realized he looks like he's a friggin' gazelle running all straight up like that.

[Grasshopper]

I envy you. I really do. I've ALWAYS wanted to be able to do. *sigh* Very nice picture.

[-=Squid=-]

Also, he is clearly hit on his leg. What a cheater :p I really need to post up some of my work...

[dinger]

if i was in that suit i wouldn't be farting....

hes got a squirt gun shooting paintballs! :D wheres the hpa tank? :o


Squid- i think everyone should post their paintball artwork!! that would be SUPA DUPA :D :D

[pito189]

This might have been posted, but with all that plastic and neoprene it would virtually eliminate bounces would it not?

Nice work, looks great. :)

[c2l1k]

did anyone think that maybe his legs are moving but he's trying to keep his upper body level to get a clean shot?
just my two cents. nice pic.
-Chris:cool:

[Infratracide]

awesome concept art. If protection like that was standard i think it would be safe to increase the standard velocity of the paint or even change the munition shape. How much do you guys think the gameplay will change in the future when new stuff like this is introduced?

[The JOE]

Awesome drawing... just waiting on the next one.
(I feel it important to add that the JT logo on his shoulder is really freaking cool... and I seemed to be the only one to notice that so far?)

In this futuristic paintball world, though, what do you envision for bunkers? Airball, or something really new and different? Because that could have a massive impact on the game...

[Konigballer]

Infratracide- I never thought about increasing the velocity rates in tournies' if they had protection like my concept, thats an interesting idea. I always wondered if paintball munitions would change to something more aerodynamic. If it did I would think it would demand the use of clips or drums to feed markers, and consequently drastically limit the ammo copacity. Some kind of elongated munition couldnt just tumble down a viewloader. Tom mentioned something about developing this kind of stuff once. That would totally change the game but its anyones guess if/when that will ever happen.

The JOE- In the "futuristic paintball world", wich is a hugely popular sucess in my head, the sport has evolved for the sole purpose of reaching a national TV audience. I love how field layout and creativety have evolved lately. It definetley has to be something eyecatching for the audience as well as challenging for the players. Bunker mounted cameras would be a must to allow the broadcasting network to follow the action in the game wherever it is, as well as overhead camera points like they use in football for the field overview. Bunkers would have to have some hardpoints for mounting this equipment, I also dont like the air hoses strewn along the ground on Sup air fields so maybe rigid bunkers would be more better. It would also be great if each cities' field, in my world major cities own teams like in all major sports, were very different and recognizable from one another.

Paintball has to get faster to really attract outside viewers. You have TRY to mach the fury of a NFL game or the frenzy of a NBA game to take hold. Watching a paintball game just isnt entertaining enough for the average joe, cause generations have been raised on watching faster paced games. Higher rates of fire with either semi or full auto modes will add to the intensity of the game. Added protection, along the lines of my concept, could allow this and keep it safe.

Teams have to get larger like back in the day, maybe have 12-15 guys per team. People used to seeing a football game with lots of guys slugging it out on the field are'nt going to care about some five on five crap. Its to boring, to predictable. Theres drama in those types of games but its on such a small scale that its not effective enough for the masses who love "arena sized entertainment".

Fields have to get larger. With the increase in individuals on the team will be the need for a larger playing enviornment. Also, with the standardization of higher firing rate markers, players will need room to manuever so both teams dont wipe each other out off the start. Sorry I write so much, I like thinking about this stuff and paintballs cool cause the games so young and has chances to evolve unlike basketball or soccer...

[FooTemps]

Why stop at NFL and NBA? Why not go all the way to World Cup soccer and World Rally Championship? I mean, those aren't ultra huge in the United States, but everywhere else in the world it's a freaking obsession. They build new stadiums for World Cup Soccer for crying out loud! Fans stand on the side of the dirt and gravel roads at WRC events with the risk of getting run over. They're like freaking 14 feet away from cars that are loosing traction through turns.

Dude, if there were World Cup Paintball stadiums built every 4 to 8 years with 100000+ fans packed in them...

Then again, paintball would have to last more than 2 minutes per game. Also, paintball should be a scoring game. Not like NPPL or NXL or PSP scoring... I mean like goal scoring...

Scoring idea, SCROLL DOWN TO SEE IT, the modified version is better.

[darklord]

I don't picture that working out too well, mainly due to the confusion that you have to load the "ball" in your gun. What if a confused teammate "had the ball", and tried to "pass" it to a teammate, but ended up shooting him? And how would you be able to distinguish a tiny freakin ball like that from 1,000's of other paintballs?

I'm not sure how exactly one would market paintball to the masses... I think that the simple concept of aiming a "gun" at another person is just too freaky for some people to handle. IMO I think paintball will remain an "extreme sport" for a while... I personally cannot think of how it would become mainstream.

[shinobidice]

well it could end up like huge reinactments of war, like dester strom scenerios or something, and like they could make the game more realistic, like the marker would be connected to the suit, if you got hit bad say in the chest or so it wouldnt fire, if in the arms same, in the legs, the suit might fall over and not be able to walk until like a team medic squad comes by. There could be mortars and tanks and stuff too, all played on a huge field measured not in acres, but in miles

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by shinobidice
well it could end up like huge reinactments of war, like dester strom scenerios or something, and like they could make the game more realistic, like the marker would be connected to the suit, if you got hit bad say in the chest or so it wouldnt fire, if in the arms same, in the legs, the suit might fall over and not be able to walk until like a team medic squad comes by. There could be mortars and tanks and stuff too, all played on a huge field measured not in acres, but in miles


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Python14]

No offense foo, but that idea would last 8 minutes. It's too far from what the game actually is. I can promise you that if that is what it would take to get on TV, I'll happily remain stagnant for the rest of my life.

Seriously though, that idea would be on Spike TV like twice then get cancelled.

I personally think NXL has a very good setup. Watching the videos and stuff, it's easy for someone with a simple knowledge to follow. However, I would like to have like 7 people on the field instead of 5.

Then again, if it was up to me, we'd go back to the woods with 15 man teams on fields the size of small college campuses and damned be the video cameras because frankly, I just want to play paintball ,have fun, and play in my home, the woods. Not worry about whether or not I look good for the cameras.

[FooTemps]

Well, my idea is basically nxl with a ball, periods, and no switching sides.

I know idea seems really flawed but I thought of it at like 2 in the morning so I had an image going but I coudln't really convey it completely... I'll try again some other time...

[-=Squid=-]

The only thing I dont like about your idea foo, is the ball "launcher." Im sorry, but the more I think about it, the dumber it gets...but you DO have a lot of REALLY great ideas.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
The only thing I dont like about your idea foo, is the ball "launcher." Im sorry, but the more I think about it, the dumber it gets...but you DO have a lot of REALLY great ideas.

i know the launcher is dumb... I have no other idea on how to score goals... maybe just throwing the ball?

[Konigballer]

I like some of Footemps stuff, I was thinking about having away to score goals but I never thought of a "ball launcher of some sort".
People have been wandering what it would look like, well did anyone used to watch American Gladiators? Remember the tennis ball launchers teh players had to take out the gladiator with? Something like that could work 'cept maybe a lower velocity so you had to lob it in from short range.

If we had those then the game would be alot like football, each teams "mission" would be to shuttle the "ball lobber" to within striking distance of the endzone and he would have a chance to score a goal before he was either eliminated or missed. The two minute reinsertion is a cool idea, I cant imagine what that would be like for the players covering the "ball lobber" at the opposing teams endzone with their re-inserted players streamin' out of their bases ready to stop him. That be pretty kick azz!

[FooTemps]

Screw it... Modifying my idea to be more feasible for right now... here we go!

Teams: 2

Number of players: 7 man team? Maybe bigger since the field is so damn big...

Objective: 1 ball/flag. The ball is about the size of a tennis ball and is easily seen from a distance by spectators. This ball is like a flag... OR it would just be a flag to all of you people who hate the ball.

Scoring: You score by getting the ball/flag into the opponent's goal. You could run it in like a touchdown, you could throw it into the goal, you could kick it into the goal, whatever. The goal is a shoulder height goal slightly smaller than a hockey goal.

Positions: start at respective ends and have teams do position layout independently to fit their play style.

Resetting ball/flag: Done by ref, I guess they stop the game for 5 seconds and then resume.

Field size: Big enough to only be able to make shots go 2/3 the field.

Ways to win: Eliminate someone's whole team or score the most points.

Starting: Ball starts in center, teams start on respective sides.

Details: no elimination points, 2 minute reinsertion, 5 minute periods, 4 periods, players always reinserted at 1 minute mark in the period.

[-=Squid=-]

OK! Any idea of a ball launcher just makes me think of something stupid. Im sorry. Why not leave it the same? Only have reinsertion. Leave a center flag, only if they get it to a certain spot, they get a certain number of points. Dont have anything that can end the game but the clock. Make eliminations something like 5 points, and a flag hang (to wherever) 100 points...or something. When they hang the flag, just have another flag back on the hanging spot. If one team loses all of there mates, all 5 (or 7) players are reinserted...that way there would be more strategy involved, rather than just going crazy and trying to kill all the players...Make reinserted players neutral for so many seconds so that they couldnt just kill all players then camp there reinsertion spot. I would also say that if a player is shot, when its his time to be reinserted, if he isnt playing up to snuff, the coach can put in a new player, rather than the one who just got shot. Eh?

EDIT: oo! Make the flag on the 50 yard line, and ever 10 yards a player takes the flag OVER the other teams side, he gets 20 points..so if you got the flag all the way across the other side of the field, that would be a hundred, or make it just 10 yards, 20 points. I like that!!!

[FooTemps]

TOO MANY POINTS! I'M MAKING THE GAME SIMPLE! YOU SCORE BY PUTTING BALL/FLAG IN GOAL! EASY! VERY VISUALLY UNDERSTANDABLE!

[JT2002]

Originally posted by Konigballer
About the P90 or something similarly groundbreaking like
HK's G11 being examples of "out of the box" thinking, I totally agree with you Steerat. . got a pic somewhere of a G11?:D

[Konigballer]

here is the G11 JT, fired caseless amunition in. One of its selling points was that its caseless amunition cycled so fast that the weapon fired burst of three rounds but only recoiled from the first shot after the three rounds had already left. That increased "hit probability" by a substantial margin. It was too expensive for the Germans to equipe their forces though.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by FooTemps
TOO MANY POINTS! I'M MAKING THE GAME SIMPLE! YOU SCORE BY PUTTING BALL/FLAG IN GOAL! EASY! VERY VISUALLY UNDERSTANDABLE!


what do you mean to many points...Instead of ONE way to score, there are two? Is that to tough for you? Even in regular paintball, there are 3 ways to score :rolleyes: Ya, lets be like american gladiators, and shoot central "points" balls across the arena :rolleyes: Im sure that would really make things go mainstream...

[Python14]

Foo, your ball idea is too far off. Then teams would be looking for baseball players who are marginal shooters, but accurate pitchers.

I honestly don't see why there needs to be goals. What is wrong with playing it the way it is supposed to be played? The ball idea is just trying to mesh paintball with other sports. It doesn't need to be that hard.


I like squids idea. It's simple. Easy to follow for the uninformed, and definitely something that I, as a player, can easily adjust to.

[FooTemps]

Dude, on the points thing, the less ways to score, the better. You see basketball and soccer? The only way to score is to get the ball into the goal. I'm just trying to build off what works in other sports. It isn't really that complicated. You're just not visioning it right. lol

You're right about the baseball player thing though. That's why I wanted to do the short range launcher thing.

Also, Squid's idea is easily adjusted to. But it'd still be a lot more complicated for spectators. Squid's idea isn't really a spectator sport becuase an uninformed moron wouldn't understand why a team keeps scoring points for moving around.

[Python14]

We don't play soccer, or basketball. We play paintball. Paintball is not soccer, or basketball. If you try and make paintball into soccer, you no longer have paintball, you have soccer.

You idea goes right there up with the XFL and Super Jam ball. It will become a novelty that no one takes seriously.

Look at golf. It is so complicated that I doubt anyone knows every single way you can be penalized. But look how popular it is.

It's not about the complexity here(golf proves my point), it's about how the game appears.

Your idea is too different from the way the game is played. If you look at the way games are played now as far as rules and scoring, it hasn't changed that drastically in 20 years. Your goal is to take your team to the otherside of the field, without being eliminated, and capture their flag by any means declared legal. Then take said flag back home to your respective flag station.

Your idea is team handball with paintball guns.

Sorry.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by Konigballer
here is the G11 JT, fired caseless amunition in. One of its selling points was that its caseless amunition cycled so fast that the weapon fired burst of three rounds but only recoiled from the first shot after the three rounds had already left. That increased "hit probability" by a substantial margin. It was too expensive for the Germans to equipe their forces though. is it an older gun?

[Konigballer]

poor Squid, he "gets no respect!!":)

Well, can we all agree that teams need to be at least 12-15 each on much larger fields? Regardeless of how the game is structured you have to have a sizable team for more game possibilities. All major team sports have sizable team numbers on the field.

Python, if their was nothing wrong with glaying the game the way the game is played now then we will never break out of were we are now. We will never be picked up by the X-games and will always be a more or less "insiders sport". We'll just be considered some dinky little "war game" by the rest of the world. The game IS NOT INTERESTING ENOUGH for widespread television viewing. I dont even like watching paintball on television now, its marginally more interesting than golf. If it ever wants to get picked up by TV networks, and actually make money, the game has to change.

Does all this idea generating remind anyone of Baseketball?

[Konigballer]

Yeah JT the G11's an older gun, it was introduced by HK in the early 80's.

[JT2002]

oh. sry for jackin the thread, but if they were so good, how come noone uses em today?

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Konigballer
poor Squid, he "gets no respect!!":)

Well, can we all agree that teams need to be at least 12-15 each on much larger fields? Regardeless of how the game is structured you have to have a sizable team for more game possibilities. All major team sports have sizable team numbers on the field.

Python, if their was nothing wrong with glaying the game the way the game is played now then we will never break out of were we are now. We will never be picked up by the X-games and will always be a more or less "insiders sport". We'll just be considered some dinky little "war game" by the rest of the world. The game IS NOT INTERESTING ENOUGH for widespread television viewing. I dont even like watching paintball on television now, its marginally more interesting than golf. If it ever wants to get picked up by TV networks, and actually make money, the game has to change.

Does all this idea generating remind anyone of Baseketball?

exactly why I added the ball aspect. I know that the idea isn't the best but it's a step to actually making the game more interesting.

BTW: I based my idea primarily off basketball, soccer, and hockey.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Python14
We don't play soccer, or basketball. We play paintball. Paintball is not soccer, or basketball. If you try and make paintball into soccer, you no longer have paintball, you have soccer.

You idea goes right there up with the XFL and Super Jam ball. It will become a novelty that no one takes seriously.

Look at golf. It is so complicated that I doubt anyone knows every single way you can be penalized. But look how popular it is.

It's not about the complexity here(golf proves my point), it's about how the game appears.

Your idea is too different from the way the game is played. If you look at the way games are played now as far as rules and scoring, it hasn't changed that drastically in 20 years. Your goal is to take your team to the otherside of the field, without being eliminated, and capture their flag by any means declared legal. Then take said flag back home to your respective flag station.

Your idea is team handball with paintball guns.

Sorry.

Thing is, xfl and slamball are actually based off a previously successful spectator sport. Paintball isn't a spectator sport and it sure as hell isn't a successful spectator sport. It wouldn't be a novelty since it'd be the only medium that is even more spectator friendly than xball.

Wow, I'm getting my leagues confused... lol I typed nxl when i meant to tyep xfl... sheesh

[Konigballer]

JT the G11's were expensive as hell. At the time, we had stockpilled MILLIONS of rounds of standard 5.56 amunition. For any country to adopt a rifle firing caseless amunition would be a huge financial commitment, plus it the rifle itself was not without its little bugs. In the end, it was too ahead of its time and it would just be cheaper for countries to update their current rifles. The US M-16 and German G3 assualt rifles are perfectly capable weapons. I guess it was a matter of "why give the soldiers a ferrari when a ford will get the job done".

For the other subject, it would be cool if teams or industry people just experimented with different game formats and rule changes just to try out different poosibilities, even if the whole ball launcher idea wouldnt be feasible you could still try it out. One of those tennis ball lobbers would just be a low powered potato launcher anyways.

[Python14]

but then it's no longer paintball. It's "lob the goofy ball at a goal whilst not being shot with smaller balls"


Seriously, do you want to be on TV or do you want to play paintball? That's the gist of my arguement. I rather play paintball the way I play paintball and not lose it.

And don't tell me "But there will still be fields that use the old way"....when woodsball was king and speedball fields started coming up everywhere, I said "But I want to play woodsball" and everyone told me "You'll still be able to". Well, I haven't been able to play woodsball in four years because all the places around me that had woodsball closed, or became speedball arenas.

Why the hell do we have to be on TV? Why can't we just play paintball and if people want to watch us, let them watch us. Otherwise, quit trying to change yourself so everyone will like you.

I've seen too much change in my 7/8 years of playing to welcome it anymore. And yes, I am bitter about this. There is alot I miss, and I understand why some of the best players from yesterday quit when the game left the woods and ran onto the soccerfield.


I digress.

[FooTemps]

old school is good... Well, that's how you want to play I guess. I personaly detest woodsball sometimes. Then again, the woodsball field I usually go to really sucks.

We could just let paintball stay the same I guess. It wouldn't hurt the sport for the new few years.

[Konigballer]

Python your right about the woodball thing, no one ever wants to play that any more and I was good at it too:(

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Konigballer
Python your right about the woodball thing, no one ever wants to play that any more and I was good at it too:(

Yeah, it's really fun on good woodsball fields.

[Steelrat]

I know there was some interest about the G11, heres the P90 for those who havent seen it.

BTW, the G11 was an interesting design, but the designers learned that in order for the military to adopt things, they must generally be evolutionary, rather than revolutionary. The next generation assault weapon, for example, will probably use 5.56 mm, though the design will be different from todays m-16.