Soo.. Tom.. Tommy Tom Tom.. how about those Reg seats?

[Nachos]

Ya know.. for all the people that have very expensive door stops and those who rely on their Flatline, which is an AGD product....

Last word is that AGD USA had them.. so.. have you finished testing? Cause.. I need one. If it can last 1 day of testing that is a hell of a lot better than nothing. So like.. put 'em for sale! This isn't a roller trigger or Y grip or something neato and cool.. this is something to fix a flaw in one of your already finished and sold products.

That whole back and front burner stuff.. this one should have the fricken house on fire as a priority.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

um..I'm guessing your mother never taught you how to subtle...and so you just act rude and think it's the same thing..

[Marek]

Originally posted by Nachos
Ya know.. for all the people that have very expensive door stops and those who rely on their Flatline, which is an AGD product....

Last word is that AGD USA had them.. so.. have you finished testing? Cause.. I need one. If it can last 1 day of testing that is a hell of a lot better than nothing. So like.. put 'em for sale! This isn't a roller trigger or Y grip or something neato and cool.. this is something to fix a flaw in one of your already finished and sold products.

That whole back and front burner stuff.. this one should have the fricken house on fire as a priority.

Good point, since AGD has nothing else to do or worry about and should cater to you with your sparkling charm and dazzling intellect. :rolleyes:

Some of us here on the boards are waiting for things too, like ULE Rtps and X-Mags. You don't see us creating threads do you?

[Nachos]

DiRTyBuNNy, rude would be stealing $360 from someone. How were they ripped off? Well purchasing a product for $360 that has a flaw and the company that made that product chooses to release Y L M N O P grips, light mechanical triggers and ULE Warp feeds to make MORE money instead of worrying about the CUSTOMERS that have ALREADY givin' them their money. I mean... after all.. why the hell should you take care of them? You already got their hard earned cash.

Marek, you are damn right they should cater to myself and the many people that spent money on a defective product. This is one plastic seal. No moving parts, no assembly needed. I don't care if you need a special plastic that comes from a tribe in the amazons that can only be crafted by Willy Wonkas Oompa Loompas in his chocolate factory. You fix your damn product before you make new ones.

This $360 air system becomes a freaking door stop, paper weight, nice conversation piece for the living room because of a $5 part. I want my money back so I can buy something from Centerflag or Air America. Because they can at least produce theses magical regulator seats.

The newest reg seats were shipped from AGD Europe what... 2 or 3 weeks ago? Well I want mine. Charge me a whooping $10 double your profit and I'll buy two of them, I don't really care.. I just want a freakin' reg seat for my $360 lemon. AGD has always been bent on quality... taking care of the customer.. why the hell do they have to drop the ball on their HPA system?

Do I sound pissed off? You're damn right I'm pissed off. This is a bunch of crap. You shaved head Nike shoe wearing cult members can all take a big ole swig of a vodka and cyanide cocktail for all I care. I'm the one that dropped my wad of cash on AGD when I could have just as well thrown it at SmartParts.

[FooTemps]

yep, agd sucks for one fuss up... no one else ever screws up and needs to make recalls/fixes... yep...

[Nachos]

What recall? What fix? They have known about the screwed up reg seats for a LONG time now. A fix would have been VERY nice, ya know like 2 or 3 months after they have known about it, is that a short amount of time? It's a freaking piece of plastic!!!! I don't care about suppliers to produce it blah blah blah... it is still a piece of round plastic that makes a $360 product FUNCTION. This part should have been FIXED, RECALLED WHATEVER long before your limp wrist grips and warp ULE's were made. Like I said.. why should they worry about the people who's already givin' AGD their money.

And even then.. the old reg seats WORKED, just not very good and for a long time, that is a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. Blah blah... "wanna get it right the 2nd time around", that's great for 3 or so months.. when it gets into the years, shove the damn thing out the door and count your losses later.

[Marek]

Well, someone needs to take their Zoloft. You think you are the only person to spend money on their products? Like no one other than you has a problem with the reg seat? There are other ppl on these forums that are waiting for things, and we have the deceny to not act like children.

I've been waiting for my gun since May, and what I'm waiting for is not even an Xmag. Do you see my complaining? Nope. Do you see me like a ranting like a lunatic? Nope. There is a proper way of doing things, and acting like a 5 yr. old who wants a happy meal is not the way to do it. Be civilized in your posts, even if you don't post here regularly or call AGD.

If you are not happy with the answer that they give you, and if it is such a hastle, sell your tank and get another one. Don't keep your "defective $390 paperweight" and get something from a company you think is perfect.

Very simple, need to calm down and contact them. I am sure that there is a perfectly good explaination to the delay.

[Marek]

Originally posted by RogueFactor
Although the delivery may be a bit crass....

you gotta admit, he does have a valid point.

Yes, but there is a way to do it. Coming here with both guns blasting, just going crazy is not exactly going to do him any favors.

He's waiting for a reg seat. I'm waiting for a gun. Dirtybunny is waiting for an X-Mag. These are things that we want, and the anticipation is dreadful, but they haven't been available yet for us. But, there is a way to do it, and I don't see the tone and attitude that he has is the way to do it.

[Marek]

Originally posted by RogueFactor


Hence the word crass.

And of course the difference being is that you knew there would be a wait for the X-Mag before you bought into it. There was no such foresight for the Flatline.

Nope, I didn't buy an X-Mag. I'm waiting for an XRTP.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Yes, but as Marek has noted Tom is aware of the problem and they are actively working towards a solution. They were looking for suppliers and are testing the reg seats to make sure that they are up to snuff as far as quality. I'm sure you'd rather have AGD test the reg seats and be able to tell you that you shouldn't have future problems with them or would you rather have them just sending you a reg seat and have you expect to work and then tell you "told you so" if it doesn't because you wanted it right now. I'm sorry to tell you it doesn't work that way.

As far as people not knowing that there was a problem with reg seats being backordered; that's not true, Tom has acknowledged it and the information was public here on AO. If you don't choose to do research before you make a purchase, that's your own fault.

You ever thought about flipping over your reg seat like BlackVCG had suggested or have you not done any research at all on your "$3xx paperweight"?

[edweird]

Eigh... well "abducting" an Xmag at IAO did seem to highten the issue a bit... even if it was in jest.

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=919579

[kenndogg]

guys I hate to say it but Nachos is right. Don't get all fussy b/c god..err I mean AGD is being called out. :p :p

[steveg]

I'm with Nachos on this one.

the basis of most of the arguments here are
"How dare you criticize AGD"
and
"I don't have the new gun/accessory that I want yet, so
that disqualifies you from complaining about the unusable
product that you own."

[Marek]

Originally posted by steveg
I'm with Nachos on this one.

the basis of most of the arguments here are
"How dare you criticize AGD"
and
"I don't have the new gun/accessory that I want yet, so
that disqualifies you from complaining about the unusable
product that you own."

Has nothing to do with AGD being "called out." Hell, I don't even work for the company, so I'm not going to lose any sleep if they mess up. If someone wants to criticize AGD, that's their right.

The problem I have is this elitist attitude as he is the only one waiting for stuff from AGD and AGD is just sitting around tuning their Polka Band. AGD does not need to cater to anyone, especially people who have the lack of respect of a decent human being. They already posted that they are being tested and when they are ready they will ship out. How much more of an answer do you need? Yes, you want them now, but they are not ready. Do you think by complaining, that the problem will just vanish?

What about people that ordered ULE Emags? They are waiting for barrels to come back from anno. He's complaining about his $390 paperweight that doesn't work and wants to be catered to. Well what about people that don't have a gun to use because they are waiting? With his logic, they should get priority, because they spent more money. They spent $XXX amount and they should be listened and adored by AGD. And people with X-Mags, well they are at the bottom of the barrel, because they should of known it would take a long time. :rolleyes:

Arguing about which item takes priority is stupid, because the part/gun that you want in your eyes is priority. It's all about decency. Acting like wild dogs over a piece of bone shows little about you or your character.

[steveg]

Marek, for all your words you are still wrong, there is
no greater sin that a company can do, than not have the
spare parts for a NEW product that is broken and unusable.

how or why those parts are unavailable is irrelevant.
That other people are waiting on other products is also
irrelevant.

I say this from the prespective of several years as
a service engineer and service manager of a large
machine tool company.

[Marek]

Originally posted by steveg
Marek, for all your words you are still wrong, there is
no greater sin that a company can do, than not have the
spare parts for a NEW product that is broken and unusable.

how or why those parts are unavailable is irrelevant.
That other people are waiting on other products is also
irrelevant.

I say this from the prespective of several years as
a service engineer and service manager of a large
machine tool company.

That's great that you have years of experience as a service engineer, but those years do not seem to help in your lack of understanding of what I mean in my posts. Read my posts. I agree that they should have the parts ready, and yes, he is right. What I don't agree is the way he is going about it. This "I deserve service now now now" attitude is annoying and not helping matters.

And you know what, to the people that are waiting on other products, it is relevant. You might not care about the product I am missing, but the same can go that I could care less about the reg seats. I'm just not whining that my item is not here. That is the difference.

[openboater]

Nacho's right, AGD should give him his money back under the lemon law.

Even if the seats are only good for one day's use (like a battery), they should be available.

At the IAO, I wondered why a 4.5k flatline reg was sitting in Crossfire's junk box. I got the feeling the guy that switched out this $300 reg for a crossfire isn't gonna be in a big hurry to buy an AGD product any too soon.

[steveg]

Marek I would guess that we don't agree,that is not the product of a lack of understanding, it's simply my not
agreeing with you.

I think openboater's post about the 4.5k reg setting in a junkbox best highlights what I'm trying
to say, and why I'm saying it.

Finally where other than the Manufacturers own website DO you express your displeasure and impatientance over
said manufacturers inability to deliver spare parts,that have failed prematurely?

I suppose that as this was actually addressed to Tom we all
should let him decide if Nachos was an elitest big meanie
or if he has a right to feel grumpy:eek:

[GT]

Originally posted by RogueFactor
Although the delivery may be a bit crass....

you gotta admit, he does have a valid point.

:) ,
Sad but true. One of the few reasons I am selling my flatline. It does not have a bad seat however it may in the future. Really dont want to take that risk.....


jb

[cledford]

I hate it that this quote came from a customer complaint against AGD, but I got a big laugh from this one line:

I don't care if you need a special plastic that comes from a tribe in the amazons that can only be crafted by Willy Wonkas Oompa Loompas in his chocolate factory.

For what ever else you guys want to say, he's funny :)

I'm sure Tom more then anyone would love to get the seats out - so I know they're working on it as hard as they can.

-Calvin

[JEDI]

The reg seat situation is a bit rediculous. If you look up the word "wait" in the dictionary, there's a picture of Tom Kaye, and it says "see also AGD". I believe the new Websters Dictionary even plays the Jeopardy jingle... :p

[bmexline]

i dont own a flatline, but i do own a lot of agd products. i love the companies products and quality. while nachos could have posted differently that doesnt make the message wrong or incorrect. he is right. how long has the wait been? months i know. does that mean that agd isnt trying to solve the problem? no it doesnt. just because they are trying to solve the problem doesnt make the problem acceptable. many others have posted "nice" messages about reg seats and what did that get? nothing other than "were working on it." sometimes it helps to take it to the next level. sometimes it doesnt. how long others are waiting on other products has nothing to do with the wait on reg seats. in just about every other case of people waiting on other products, they knew it would be a wait for them, chose to spend their money anyway and wait. you have nothing to complain about. you knew before you spent the money. in the case of many flatline owners, they did not know that the reg seats would be an issue when they made their purchase. no amount of research would do any good if the purchase was made prior to this problem comming to light. i did my research and decided on an armageddon for one simple reason. the inability to fix my flatline tank if i needed a new reg seat. had i known of the problem and decided to purchase anyway i wouldnt have had anything to complain about. those who made the purchase before the problem was well known have every right to be pissed and want their product fixed.

just my .02

oh and the chocolate factory line was very funny btw

[jdev]

Originally posted by Marek
Some of us here on the boards are waiting for things too, like ULE Rtps and X-Mags. You don't see us creating threads do you?

actually, if 2 weeks go by that I dont see a thread about someone waiting on their xmag or other mag.. i start to worry.. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Marek
Don't keep your "defective $390 paperweight" and get something from a company you think is perfect.



not all of us are made of money. my best guess is that nachos would have to sell his current flatline to get a new tank setup. seeing as how the flatline doesnt work without the regseat.. its going to be difficult to sell it to someone else who is willing to wait for AGD to release the 45k regseats.


Originally posted by RogueFactor
Although the delivery may be a bit crass....

you gotta admit, he does have a valid point.

absolutely. I dont even own a flatline and I agree with him on this.


Originally posted by RogueFactor


And of course the difference being is that you knew there would be a wait for the X-Mag before you bought into it. There was no such foresight for the Flatline.

:D


Originally posted by Marek
If someone wants to criticize AGD, that's their right.



why chastise nacho for exercsing his right to criticize something.


Originally posted by openboater
Nacho's right, AGD should give him his money back under the lemon law.


i think the lemon laws only cover new/used vehicles. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by cledford

I don't care if you need a special plastic that comes from a tribe in the amazons that can only be crafted by Willy Wonkas Oompa Loompas in his chocolate factory.



that is hella funny.. :D get those oompa loompas to work! ;)

[speeddemon]

For those that think he is out of line for blasting AGD about these reg seats, think of it this way. Say he bought a car from a company with a great record. Then a little while after he buys it, the engine blows up because of a faulty computer. So he calls the company to tell them and they say, we know, we are getting new ones made. Now he waits for them to get a new one made, while he is out 20k on a new car that he can't drive. A year later, he still doesn't have the new parts, still can't drive his car. Is that good customer service? Now at the same time a new car has come out, and they tell everyone that it is only going to be sold to people on a waiting list. Now these people know they are going to be waiting, they have no right to complain. They haven't already paid for it, they aren't out any money. The people with the broken cars have spent all there money on a useless car. If this actually happened to any car company, their reputation would be destroyed, and nobody would buy their cars.

Now what they should do is ship out whatever they have to get it to work, even if it doesn't work for long. By now they could have come up with a new reg that doesn't even need these reg seats, and given it to the people that need seats. I love AGD's products, but frankly this situation is ridiculous and it does change my mind about their customer service for the worse.

And Nachos, that quote is priceless, and its sigged

[openboater]

joey_d, I know the lemon law only covers motor vehicles, but I bet a lot of guys on this board are driving cars that cost less than the $390 flatline. and parts for that 20 year old K-car or rusted out Honda are readily available.

Just trying to emphasize that the guys with 4.5k flatlines deserve some attention.

[jaylock33]

I agree but that the reg. seat is a mess up but as long as it's fixed right the first time it's not that bad. Nothing is worse than the microsoft syndrome where there's a new patch to fix another problem every couple of months.

[AGD]

I believe the reg seats are in, please call the office and check I am out of town right now.

These reg seats require you to leave the reg seat in place and push the reg piston out the back of the body THEN take out and replace the seat. They are extra hard which gives them more performance but if you just try and pull them off you may bend the reg pin.

Sorry for the wait

AGD

[jdev]

Originally posted by openboater
joey_d, I know the lemon law only covers motor vehicles, but I bet a lot of guys on this board are driving cars that cost less than the $390 flatline. and parts for that 20 year old K-car or rusted out Honda are readily available.

Just trying to emphasize that the guys with 4.5k flatlines deserve some attention.

i know :D

on another note.. with the computer engine thing.. i think the car company may have offered to provide rental for the customer.. after all. the customer has to get back and forth to his job to pay for that broken car now. maybe AGD should offer him a new flatline to use in the interim?

just a thought. after all, if the regseat on that one breaks.. they know what they are dealing with.. why not do a recall of all the regseats.. or the flatlines for that matter and have them replaced.

[mxracer33x]

Just in case it hasnt been stated in a while, or some people had never heard, Try installing the reg seat upside down. I saw a post from BlackVCG a while back that said it would work, and actually work better, and by god (err BlackVCG) it works again. Its been working for a good 2 months now.

I will say I am with Nacho on this one though. Its been a while waiting for these parts, my dealer told me on monday that they are available and he ordered a bunch for me. So maybe the drought is over. maybe try calling AGD and see if they still have some available

[beam]

wierd.

[JEDI]

Ok, so Tom posted. Has anyone tried calling to see if they're in? The store says no.

[Marek]

How nice, selectively quote phrases.


Originally posted by joey d
actually, if 2 weeks go by that I dont see a thread about someone waiting on their xmag or other mag.. i start to worry.. :rolleyes:

You misunderstand. How many of the posts are in the manner for which he wrote? Yes, he is mad and frustrated, but does that mean that decency should be thrown out because of this? The company made a mistake, but no, he doesn't have the right to whine like a child. I have written over and over that yes, I agree that he has a valid point. It's the manner taken that I find wrong. But, Mr. Kaye already posted, so it makes no difference.


Originally posted by joey d
not all of us are made of money. my best guess is that nachos would have to sell his current flatline to get a new tank setup. seeing as how the flatline doesnt work without the regseat.. its going to be difficult to sell it to someone else who is willing to wait for AGD to release the 45k regseats.

You telling this to the person with no gun? My best advice is then he should have researched it more closely. I'm sorry, but that was already posted that you should know what your buying. I wish there was a nice answer, but I don't see it.


Originally posted by joey d
Say he bought a car from a company with a great record. Then a little while after he buys it, the engine blows up because of a faulty computer. So he calls the company to tell them and they say, we know, we are getting new ones made. Now he waits for them to get a new one made, while he is out 20k on a new car that he can't drive.

It loses form after he calls the company to tell them. Either of us have no idea if he called the company. But let's say he did, do you think it's right to call any company and just start yelling and screaming that the engine blew? How will that move anything forward? Is the person going to feel better? Maybe, but why at the cost of the company. They know they made a mistake, should they be hunted and burned also for their wrong doing? That is my point. Most, if not all that "don't get it" understand his point. The difference is the way it was said. To me, words have a lot of impact, and the way it was said was important. Guess most don't feel that way, that is there right. Yes, he has a right to criticize, but not the right to be prickish about it.

[FalconGuy016]

Marek, you have just won the award for fighting the best fight you could ever pull out of such a little base.

[GT]

Originally posted by FalconGuy016
Marek, you have just won the award for fighting the best fight you could ever pull out of such a little base.

I think that is called being a "troll"

Come on man give it up.

[Marek]

Originally posted by FalconGuy016
Marek, you have just won the award for fighting the best fight you could ever pull out of such a little base.

Gracias, I think. Can I get my gun now?

[Marek]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I think that is called being a "troll"

Come on man give it up.

Hey now, not a troll. I mean, the freshman 15 weren't nice, but come on.

Just giving my opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

[lamby]

Nacho is right... Dead on, no complaints here. My flatline reg set failed at an AO meet. TK personally gave and installed another for me on the spot. VERY COOL...

But bad practice is bad practice is bad practice, and the reg seat debacle was/is bad practice.

I think these replacement should be free to all that want them FOR FREE!!!

If you have a known problem, FIX IT !!! Excuses are like A-holes, they smell and everyone has one.

I have a spare nitroduck 68/45 xtream that is ready and willing to jump in the flatlines place if I need it. I dont care as much as someone who has NO tank to use, But it is still a pile of brown partially digested food, that you make an expensive "top of the line" tank useless with a poorly designed reg seal system.

Just my two cents on this.

Tom.. Thanks hor the heads Up, If you have them in stock I will want to get 3 or 4 incase this happens again. And again you guys have, what is starting to sound like a broken record", supplier problems I will be ready.

PS.. I would still like to see a 45k flatline rebuild kit. Something I have been asking for a year

[Beaver]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13717

For those that are saying AGD is working hard on getting them right and just to give them time, I looked up this thread and saw the same stuff, only this was *looks at watch - then looks at date of post* two years ago...

[Marek]

Originally posted by Beaver
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13717

For those that are saying AGD is working hard on getting them right and just to give them time, I looked up this thread and saw the same stuff, only this was *looks at watch - then looks at date of post* two years ago...

Who's said to give them time?

[wyn1370]

it's taken a year to get a $5 part????????????????
hahahahahahahahahahaha
customer service my butt
quality don't mean nothing if it ain't available

AGD
because quality is always on backorder

[JEDI]

Originally posted by wyn1370
it's taken a year to get a $5 part????????????????
hahahahahahahahahahaha
customer service my butt
quality don't mean nothing if it ain't available

AGD
because quality is always on backorder

Haha! I smell Sig Quote! :eek: :D

[lamby]

Just another point to this thread...

It is made of a type of plastic.. Dont ask me what kind, but I would figure something like delrin is prob correct.

If it is a hard plastic it can be machined to size (like the large delrin seals in news truck masts, which are also pneumatic) Why does AGD has this hardon for europe when we have a ton of capable machine shops that run screw machines, and if those are too loose for tolerance precision lathes?

Get me the ProE drawing or AC 2000 or better drawing of this part with all specs and tolerances and let me see if I can have them made by my friends in the know.

Tell me what material and give me the drawing and I am sure I can have them made within 3 months.. much less than 2 years, and AGD designed the damn thing. All praise to reverse engineering. Hell get me a new seat and I can make the .DWG file for it, and I suck at AC in 3d.

[Dayspring]

Well, I know that the seats are in and what not. I was at Shatnerball and Kayle changed an old one for a new one in Mel/PBX's Flatline. He used it all day on sunday at a tourney. So there's the test. They work so far.

As for the material, it's a 98 durometer hardness material. Apparently it's available only in Europe. That's why John Sosta was doing the work on it. I'm figuring that it's another one of those AGDE owned things that AGD is using. Much like the Xmags.

Although, I would like my Flatline as well. Blazingace and I ordered 2 88/4500s back in Feb. I'd kinda like to use it some point this year. :D

[lamby]

Dayspring

I need more than that, I found a supplier of 98 durometer polyethelene in 8 seconds on the net that sells in 3/4" round stock. What is the material? what does it need to do other than seal, and not deform?

I dont believe this europe crap for one second.. Unless it is a 3rd world country in europe (like bosnia) that will do the work for $.25 on the dollar. you can get ANYTHING you want right here, you just have to look. I know machinists that could make the x mag with the drawings right here in Milwaukee. There is an anno shop right down from my work too. I gaurentee Chicago has these resources also.

[GT]

Originally posted by wyn1370

AGD
because quality is always on backorder


bro you need to add somemore to the list.

AKA
JMJ
Shocktech
FF
Powerlyte

[edweird]

I ask you all to remember the back story on this part.

First of all of us that took the techclass know that orings are a weird thing. Tk and his engineer cronies are straped into using existing spec orings as it adds insane cost to make a custom oring to some special spec that only we would use.

Anyhow the original o-ring they used in the 4.5 flatline as a regseat was changed to accomidate someone (prolly the company that owns the spec for it) else's spec. This change put us out the only oring that would work for us.

Poor planing? hardly... the engineers had no clue that the O-ring they selected to use as a regseat would get changed from under them in the future.

So unfortunate crazyness happened.

At IAO we where informed that AGD has been testing plenty of other companys o-rings but few matched the strengths of the original seal. Of the ones that worked some where less than reliable and others worked to good.

Orings are strange little things. And alot of engineers design parts to accomidate for the available o-rings on the market(I site the thickness of the ULT on off pin as an example of this). Yes it could be possible to order a custom o-ring to your specific spec... but the costs would be through the roof.

So cool your jets kids. seats are finnaly on the way soon!

[openboater]

Ed, cool your jets..... from a guy in the Air Force, thats pretty good !!!

[schiesz]

Originally posted by Marek


Gracias, I think. Can I get my gun now?

Marek, I may be missing something here, but you have been talking about waiting for a XRTP or ULE RTP since May. I see no official gun by AGD that fits your description. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have seen speculation here on AO about a gun like this, and may have missed some annoucement by Tom. Have you already ordered the XRTP? I wouldn't mind getting on that list myself.

edit:
I just found the annoucement from 8-22 where Tom mentions this, but there is still nothing in The Store about these. Well, there isn't anything in the store about x-mags either, oh well...I guess i'll shut up now.

[abaez]

Does anyone find it wierd that nachos was consistently replying to the earlier posts in this thread and now he has just disappeared?

[Marek]

Originally posted by schiesz
Marek, I may be missing something here, but you have been talking about waiting for a XRTP or ULE RTP since May. I see no official gun by AGD that fits your description. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have seen speculation here on AO about a gun like this, and may have missed some annoucement by Tom. Have you already ordered the XRTP? I wouldn't mind getting on that list myself.

edit:
I just found the annoucement from 8-22 where Tom mentions this, but there is still nothing in The Store about these. Well, there isn't anything in the store about x-mags either, oh well...I guess i'll shut up now.

It's an RTP with an X-valve and ULE. Comes with a 2 piece J&J barrel that is anno'd to match the body (at least, that's the way they told me) I was told that the barrels had been back from anno, so everything should be complete, but still no gun. Oh well, keep on waiting.

[Nachos]

Originally posted by abaez
Does anyone find it wierd that nachos was consistently replying to the earlier posts in this thread and now he has just disappeared?

Yeah... there's this thing called work, and then days off.. as in it was my day off when I replied to this thread over and over and I was working while the thread marched on... ja know?

Anyways... I was going to call AGD, and then I noticed this crap at the bottom of the page: "Canadian orders MUST be placed by phone. All US phone orders will be charged an additional $5.00 phone service fee except for customers in Alaska and Hawaii."

So if I order a $5 reg seat I am charged an extra $5 because I did it by phone because they haven't updated their store?

Yeah... ***** ***** ***** is all I do.. but this is another peanut in this turd. AGD has been close to perfect for some many years.. it frustrates me when they drop and deflate the ball like they are doing now.

And don't give me that crap about "we're all waiting for stuff too", you didn't wait for an X-mag for TWO YEARS like theses small pieces of plastic. You CANNOT put pre-ordering a new gun and a FIX for a DEFECTIVE part in the same category. AGD has known about this PROBLEM for over 2 years.. and just now they're slowly testing new reg seats?!?! Like I said... no ones perfect and things happen.. 2 months.. 3 months.. 6 months (half a year), but 2 YEARS until you start to fix a problem in one of your products?!?! Yeah... that's a bunch of crap. And no I didn't know about it when I bought my Flatline, who the hell searches a message board for something defective from a company that prides themself on quality? I understand this magical O-ring is so hard to produce... but not 2 years hard.

[xen_100]

I am tottly with you nachos..........going back to the car company example.

if a car company puts out a product that has a defect that effects safty or operability, they have to compensate you for the loss of use, fix it for free, or they can buy back the product. I dont see AGD doing either of these things, let alone fixing the tanks for free.

a black mark on an otherwise good rep.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by xen_100
a black mark on an otherwise good rep.
I can think of at least two other black marks besides this one

[kenndogg]

Originally posted by Nachos


but this is another peanut in this turd.

sigged

[lamby]

Nacho... I am with you


Plain and simple

[Muzikman]

Well...the reg seat problem has not been around two years. They had a problem 2 years ago when the 4500 system were still in the prototype stage (the blue 4500 reg). They found the deformation of the seat to be a problem so before they released them to the public in masses they found a suitable seat. They thought everything was golden and they had a large number of these seats in stock. Then, when they started to run out they contacted the guy who made them and and he said he could (or would) not make any more. This is when the problems really came up. They are now down to no Seats and the guy who made the first batch will not make more. Then they had to find a new supplier and this took time. But it did not take 2 years. It has been less than a year that this was a problem.

Yes, AGD has dropped the ball on a few products in the last 2 years, but look at how many different products they have come out with. Let me see if I can list it all...since 2000

Emag
RT Pro (ok, not much R&D here)
3000 Flatline
Warpfeed
Intelliframes
First super bolt (Biggest failure in AGD history:))
4500 Flatline
Level 10
Xmag
Slug bodies
ULE milling on the Emags
Xvalve
ULE bodies (Vert and Warp feed)
AGD Ball Detents
ULE Triggers
Y Frame

That's quite a bit in 4 years

So if they drop the ball on three of these products

-Super Bolt I (Total flop, and best forgot about)
-Xmag (Production limitations. I'm guessing Tom wished the idea never saw the light of day:))
-4500 Flatline reg seat (This is the only one that impacted a large number of people and has left equipment unusable.)

Again, I think that track record is not that bad.

As for the car company comaprison...yes, this has happened to car companies too, only difference is that they have a few million to throw at a problem to get it fixed.