1600 down the drain

[tony3]

Well by the :cool: smiliey it couldn't be to bad now could it? My uncle calls me a few days ago and said his son just bought a paintball gun and they want to start playing on their 50 acre property. I'm the only person he knows with extensive paintball knowledge. So, I go over today, and he tells me about the land, I tell him about speedball and everything.

We go on the computer and its time to buy some stuff :cool: I was thinking pbgear but the tax would be insane for us illinois residents, so I ended up picking firstcallpaintball.com, they had some good stuff, not the greatest selection though.

So, I first need a setup for my cousin, his dad said nothing expensive, just simple. So, I buy a spyder imagine, reloader, 48/3000 crossfire nitro tank, and a vforce shield mask. My other cousin needed a tank for his em1 so I got him the same one, I also got him the same mask. He still had the old school VL2000 so I got him an eggy. My uncle already had some scubas for something with motobikes.

Now the fun begins, I bought a chrono and fill station. Now, my uncle needs a gun, he says buy anything, whatever is the best. I look for mags, firstcall doesnt have any emags or anything. So, I look at angels, but settle on an e-worrlock cocker and get him an eggy+a 68 45 crossfire.

It was cool spending other peoples money, a lot of cash for a kid my age:eek:

[elpimpo]

should of bought an a4

[dinger]

all that and no paint?? :D :D :D

[tony3]

naw, thats what the local shop is for:D

[dinger]

local shops are being whooped by web companies that ship out paint :o

[schiesz]

edit: nevermind, question answered

[RobAGD]

Well depends.

Around here we have the freshest paint, we open and inspect ever case we sell, and we have a good selection from white box econo paint to Hellfire and Evil tournamnet paints.

I have people buy the 5 gallon buckets of Sports Authorty crap paint and wonder why thier guns are all gooie at the end of the day.

Then I get to charge them labor to fix problems with the guns when they dont buy them from me and with spyders thats just fine with me as I make more on the labor and repair parts as I do on selling the gun :)

I have a lot of people stop buying paint online becaue of problems with breakage, and just not well kept paint.

Remember if you dont support you local shops you wont have local shops for long.

-Robert

[elpimpo]

amen rob. unless your local store is run by a stupid nazi that thinks hes a bad a$$ cause he shows off to newbs but still doesnt know a thing a bout paintball.

[sps16]

i went with the cheap stuff last time and that did me no good, curving all over the place :(

[mrhooie]

Hear, hear!!

Great post Rob

Support your local shop whenever and as often as you can.

[nastymag]

does it matter if your local store is a really big company ?


lol ... im 10 minutes away from kapps store( one of them ) and another 30 minutes from there other store.

some of the stuff they sell is even cheaper then the internet

[mrhooie]

Originally posted by nastymag
does it matter if your local store is a really big company ?


lol ... im 10 minutes away from kapps store( one of them ) and another 30 minutes from there other store.


No, because you are helping keep those local shops open.

[DWill]

50 acres in Illinois? Do they live on a farm? I wish I had 50 acres a scuba tank and my own field, I would be out there everyday, but I live on this little half a acre lot with neigbors who look at me funny and a bit worried when I take out my paintball marker. Must of been fun though I would love to do that.

[1stdeadeye]

My local shop is NPS!:D

[dinger]

my local shop needs better prices on paint :o

id rather pay 42$/case for diablo seconds :p

[logamus]

rob i hear ya loud and clear, the problem is store owners dont. if they think they can keep selling equipment 25-30% higher than it can be had on the net part of their downfall is on them as well. i know its up to the paintball players to keep these local shops open, but the owners have to do their part too. i have no problem spending a few dollars more in the shop to help the owner out, but they have to be at least reasonable with pricing.

[bornl33t]

I was gonna say sometimes they got some pretty extreme mark ups, I don't consider it an excuse, but I was just recently looking at a few different spyders and I think it was 888paintball that had the spyder x-tra for 69$ plus shipping. And my local store wanted 109 plus tax. I mean that's a 40$ differance if you think about it. 40$ can make or break a newbie.

I'm also one that doesn't like buying markers new. i bought my first at my local store and wasn't very happy with the deal I got. So pretty much the only thing I NEED is small parts, fittings etc. and guess what? the ones I need are always the ones they don't have.

I pretty much just buy o-rings and cup seals from them anymore. And they are still 5 orings for a 1$ and 4.50$ for a cupseal. blah

[RobAGD]

Well you also have to understand that some web shops are seiing for a profit of $2. I cant do that. Bt what I can do is Give you life time labor on teh gun, good friendly service, a good place to play and good quality stuff and I wont sell you crap unless you really really want it.

The problem with spyders in general is the fact that use weird parts. The BL's and regs they use suck and nothing else will match it. Yes I carry the BL converters and I carry a few drops with the offset pattern. But because we sell less of these I dont get the better pricing like I get on "normal" drops that I buy in large quanties.

I keep most repair parts for guns I sell, if I dont sell it I MIGHT have a factory parts kit for the wallmart guns ( raptor, Avenger, Genisis, Stinkray )

Thing is I have to pay people to work to answer your questions, pay my rent, electrisity and operating cost. You have to have some thnings that are higher margin. I sell 5 tank orings for $2, thats a high marin item, Guns are not a high margin item. You typically see less than %10 depending on the volume you sell. And as I have 6 shops and a field I do a good volume, but guess what ? I dont do near the ammount NPS does do they can under cut my prices to teh point I could not compete.

If your local shop sucks or sells things for un realistic prices, then by all means dont buy from them. But also dont forget when you need some help at some point or you need that special widget that he may not have out for sale but might have on a gun or in personal stash, shop owners will remember who buys from them.

Just so you all know, I bought my first gun from Smart Parts because I got word from AGD when I called to ask some questions they just got a shippment, I didnt think my local shop could get them in as the guns were back ordered almsot 3 months out. That was mail order, my local guy never stoped giving me crap about that but he did end up paying for me to get certified at AGD because I got a ton of people to buy from him :) If you have a helpfull shop, support them, if you have a crap shop that just push junk then dont, but dont no buy just because of a few $$.

-Robert

[crankydan]

Rob,

You made some good points, but lets really look at something important. PAINT, PAINT, PAINT, is where every baller is going to spend their money. How many Newbs run through 2 cases a weekend? Not many that I know, and if they did they just spent enough money to buy themselfs a new Spyer(or whatever). The thing that kills me is the mark up on Paint, I mean come on now, how can shops justify 25-30% mark up. Here is a new concept, how about selling paint at cost and draw more customers into the store. You dont have to sell it all at cost, maybe just PMI Prem or Blaze. We get it at our field for 40 bucks a case and if you want marb or infern then you pay more. I think this is what started this thread and some of us just dont like it. I believe you run a good shop, you just have to think about us rec folks more often and hook us up. :)

[tony3]

Originally posted by DWill
50 acres in Illinois? Do they live on a farm? I wish I had 50 acres a scuba tank and my own field, I would be out there everyday, but I live on this little half a acre lot with neigbors who look at me funny and a bit worried when I take out my paintball marker. Must of been fun though I would love to do that.

Yes, its in Wilmington, its got a pond and a dock, and they have a house and a boat. 5 acres of it is nothing but flat land with no trees or anything, the other 45 or so is all forested, they bought most of this for riding motocross

[RobAGD]

I tell you what.

Goto your local store, and ask then to sell you Bread and milk for cost because that the best way to get people into the store ?

I never understand why paintball people seem to think that a paintball store is any differnt than a target, WalGrens or any other shop. You dont haggle in there about prices why should you in my shop ?

The margin on paint is what ever it goes for in your area. Just to give you an idea we are not the cheapest in teh area, I have 2 other shops that sell paint at cost or damn close to it. People still buy from me because they know I am not selling old paint. Also the only reason this guy is still in business is that his field. He runs enough private games to keep the store afloat. He isnt cutting into my walk ons or my team players. HE get a fair share of teh new people. In the long run we end up with those players as well because of your service, selection and to be honest we are better than he is.

There is a reason you dont see many Paintball shops that ahve ben around for more then a few year, you have to run it like its a real business not a hobbie or you will fail.

-Robert

[kutter]

Rob, I agree with everything you said except for one thing, grocery stores actually do sell bread and milk at cost or in some cases at a loss.

Think of it this way, what 2 items do most people go through the most, especially if you have kids. Operating under the premise that you will buy the rest of your groceries there if the 2 things you buy the most are the cheapest. Actually a good idea, but it does not work for paintball since food is not a discretionary item and the things that we use other than paint we don't purchase nearly as much of.

I support my local store whenever I can. I admit that I do not purchase things like air bottles and guns, but I do buy almost everything else. Its too hard to know if something will work/fit/feel right over the internet, thats why I go to the store. It benefits both of us.

Just my opinions, I could be wrong.

[bornl33t]

Originally posted by RobAGD
I tell you what.

Goto your local store, and ask then to sell you Bread and milk for cost because that the best way to get people into the store ?

I never understand why paintball people seem to think that a paintball store is any differnt than a target, WalGrens or any other shop. You dont haggle in there about prices why should you in my shop ?

The margin on paint is what ever it goes for in your area. Just to give you an idea we are not the cheapest in teh area, I have 2 other shops that sell paint at cost or damn close to it. People still buy from me because they know I am not selling old paint. Also the only reason this guy is still in business is that his field. He runs enough private games to keep the store afloat. He isnt cutting into my walk ons or my team players. HE get a fair share of teh new people. In the long run we end up with those players as well because of your service, selection and to be honest we are better than he is.

There is a reason you dont see many Paintball shops that ahve ben around for more then a few year, you have to run it like its a real business not a hobbie or you will fail.

-Robert

Oh yeah, I buy all my paint locally. For one all the fields are fpo and for two, I don't want to have to send it back cause a few got busted by the boys at UPS and ruined the whole batch and for three, i want to complain when I get a box of dimples. Oh yeah, and my local store has a a 40$ lifetime warrenty too. But I've never heard of a mag owner taking advantage of it :D

[RobAGD]

Just a quick nod about the milk and bread comment, I ran several grocery stores for about 7 years. Milk and bread are not sold at cost. Store brands ( bread ) are close but are not.

Heat, we have a lot of mag owner that use the lifetime labor deal now, the magic word is "Level 10" :D

-Robert

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

Well anytime I buy just about anything except well small parts and big parts and jerseys and pants and masks.....Ok so I don't buy anything other then airlines local. MEH

The store is 10 minutes but not ran by the same guy, the guy that runs one has a pre-99 annoed cocker with 2 tanks for 1,500 dollars. Little out ragious don't you think? The only other markers he carrys are spyders and a few tippmanns. Thats why I don't buy local, they can't supporrt my needs.

However, I do buy all my paint local, and to all those up there mitching and boning about 40 bucks for a case of paint be happy. Geez I remember paying 70 bucks for the same stuff 3 years ago so be happy guys.

Everything I do buy local is at my field, not really local bout 45 mins away.

[Major Ho]

Post whore-ish comment
Rob rocks my world...:D

[fdsovd]

rich people bah!

[RobAGD]

For all the kiddies that ahve never paid more than $100 for a case you missed out on all the fun.

1992 Master RPS FPO @ MAsters $175 a case for Junk
1993 2500 rnd case Nelon Red $125 and that was a damn good price
Late 1993 Team get a deal with NPS now pay $50 a case if we buy 100 caes a wack ( 2 skids )
Event paint at most fields ProBall or 68 Ultra $125 a case
1998 RPS Marb $90 a case ! RPS Premium $80ish a case ( still 2500 rnds )

NOw from Late 94 until 97 I paid $40 for pratice Brass Eagle paint and my event paint was $0 But that is teh wonders of sponcer ship. BTW the tournament BE paint once they got it dialed in was freaking awsome. The pink was nasty thick and marked like Inferno Pink.

Now you can get just to give you an idea around here ( Metro Washington DC )

White Box ~ $45
Blaze ~ $57
Inferno ~ $62
Hellfire ~ $68
Big Ball ~ $52
PMI Prem - $56 Pink is the only color to get its evil lite
Marb / Evil ~ $67

Our fields allow BYOP, only reason you HAVE To shoot our paint is if you have our rental gear. Or your playing a special event ( tournament ) and thats the only othertime we require Store ( pevs ) paints.

-Robert

[UltimatePaintballer]

shipping for paint online is insane. its like 20 dollars+. thats why i never buy it online. my friends dad bought them 8 or 16 cases once from online. i can't imagine what that costed them! also they went through that in like a month

[nastymag]

again .. i am lucky , because KAPP is big , they sell stuff pretty cheap.

case of Anarchy is 55

GAP i think was like 45-50

they had Nelson hotspot at 35 bucks a case.
and if you will defently find " KAPP " brand products cheaper then anywhere else.

they are great ..... the only thing that is kinda odd is that they have a bigger selection of girl clothing ( like street cloths) then mens.


in playing for 4 years now , i have never ever bought paintfrom an online store. im proud of that

[bornl33t]

ya know rob.. those are actually really good prices.... I think it's 50-60$ right now for a case of "big ball" at both the local fields...Big ball is their cheapest stuff

[skife]

i buy all my paint local, my air aswell :D

Fantasy paintball in grandrapids michigan owns you!

haha

they have a centerflag cocker on the wall with 68/3k centerflag tank and a riccy 2k for $1200, but its on consignment(they don't pick the price the owner does)

[JesseB]

my local store owner is a dick head. So everytime I buy a new badass gun that i know he has one or two of on the wall I go in and get my tank filled...which happens to be on my new gun.

then i tell him i paid a little more than he had it marked after shipping just to piss him off...

Good god I love making him know that he missed any sales to me and my friends by being a dick

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by RobAGD
I tell you what.

Goto your local store, and ask then to sell you Bread and milk for cost because that the best way to get people into the store ?

Hey Rob,

I saw your later post and I actually agree with much of what you say. But surely if you were invovled in running any medium to large grocery store you're aware of loss-leaders.

I worked Canadian Tire (similar to Walmart for you Americuns) for a number of years and every week there were featured items in the advertisements that were being sold at or below cost.

You placed the displays of these items with related products that may or may not also be on special but make significant markup.

So how about this for a paintball store: Fill tanks for NOTHING or next to nothing. If next to nothing, make zero profit or a small loss. With everyone coming to the store to fill their tanks, they might pick up their paint at the same time. As you're filling the tank you can suggest upgrades and fixes. Offer other services at the same time. hook up with an anodizer, hydro tester, and all the other possible services so that the player can shop in one place and the details are handled by the store. Offer frequent customer rewards (free case of paint after X cases purchased).

Etc, etc, etc,

[Big_Chops]

i don't care what i have to buy i always support Aerostar of Wisconsin. Steve is the man. if Aerostar closed then i would actaully have to drive somewhere to buy stuff

[Jonno06]

well,i havent played since january, so im not sure how the local field is now-a-days...it really bit one last time i checked though:/

[Kaiser Bob]

888 shouldent be used to compare prices against a local store, especially a smaller one. For example in NJ most stores deal with NPS. Now unless you are buying in huge volume, NPS's dealer prices are maybe a couple dollars less then NPS's online store... 888 paintball! So basically they screw the dealers making it impossible for them to compete with online prices...

[ExtremeODD]

dude, my local shop ROCKS, they may not carry the best stuff, but they have the coolest owner, he saw a crappy gun i got, helped me with getting another (from a diff place not his) and that was GREAT, he helped set up a few things, throwing in macroline and connectors free. he even offered me his cocker for like 100 bux, cuz he dont care for them, and it needs a few things fixed (nothing major) i didnt take it tho (no moneys) but hes great, even let me try out his viking, that was greaaaaat

[Kaiser Bob]

888 shouldent be used to compare prices against a local store, especially a smaller one. For example in NJ most stores deal with NPS. Now unless you are buying in huge volume, NPS's dealer prices are maybe a couple dollars less then NPS's online store... 888 paintball! So basically they screw the dealers making it impossible for them to compete with online prices...

[cris8762]

i get anarchy for 40-45,
whitebox for real cheap (last time was 28 but it wasnt the field owner there that day),
hotspot (absolute crap, fill is EXREMELY watery) for 36,
and other stuff for pretty cheap

that's mostly because our field owner has a deal with Anarchy and his PSP team shoots their paint and wears all their stuff, so yea we've got da' hookup