Bandit ball

[Infratracide]

Ok so now that school has started, and me and my friends are short on cash and time I brought up the idea of playing paintball in the secluded parts of our town. We live in a moderatly populated suburb with some wooded areas. There is a big chunk of woods (no one ever goes there) that is being protected or something, i really dont know its status but if we start playing there...
Is it legal? i doubt it is but will anyone care?
If the cops decide to join us, what will they charge us with?
Anyone else have experiance with this?
Anyone wanna try and stop me? lol

[LaW]

I think its a dumb idea, and is definately not legal....

[Skoad]

go out and play, just be weary of passerby's.

here at school we just play in the woods off of one of the football/rugby fields

[JEDI]

Why is it a dumb idea? How do you think paintball got started? What state do you live in? Its not illegal every where.

Before we went tourney, my team and I played in the woods all the time. If its public/ not privately owned property, it should be legal. We were playing on state park property once, and were kicked out, but you shouldnt be charged with anything. Playing paintbal is not illegal.

As long as your far enough away, and you're not harming anyone, you'll probably be left alone. Watch for hikers, and try to keep the over shooting of trees and rocks to a minimum.

I have a lot of experience with "outlaw" ball. Its how I got started. Its where I had most of my woods ball fun. I've played in several portions of woods all around town. You have to expect the occasional questioning, or boot from a particular place, but its not illegal. You wont be arrested.

[Lohman446]

I have to agree, as long as you leave when asked to, and don't argue with anyone over it well there, I do not see any serious side effects. Of course I'm not a lawyer so... just be polite to anyone who comments on it, and don't argue with those with authority.

[LaW]

besides being dangerous, i used to play outlaw ball too when I was young... The cops around here get pretty mad actually. I just dont think its that safe. My response though was because he said the wooded area was being protected so I figure its some kind of "preserve" type thing so I dont think the law enforcement would like that.

[Spray Painter]

when i first started playing about 3 years ago we used to play at an undeveloped public park that no one ever went to, the nieghbors(sp) called the cops, when they came we told them what we where doing, showed them the safty stuff we had(barrel pulgs, etc) and showed them how far the guns could shoot. it happened about 4 times(the cops came each time and every time they said it was ok) before we finally just decided it wasn't worth the nieghbors yelling at us so we stopped playing there. i say just check with your police/city to see if it's ok, if you do play there just make sure you play safe.

[spydervenom]

if its not your land its not legal
thats why its not a good idea.


find some private owned land and its owner and ask if you guys can play there and possibly propose signing a waiver

[Infratracide]

ok well the land im talking about is a reservation, it is about 350 deserted acres. I will decide if its safe or not, we do live in a very densly populated area in NJ. I just wanted to convince my frineds that the police will not confiscate their equipment.

[powerofthegospel]

I play woodsball on city land right in the middle of our city and we never have any problems. I hear if cops catch us they'll come at us with firearms, but we never have any trouble. If you have that much land you should be fine, just dont be stupid and i'm sure it'll be ok.

Peace,
J.J.

[LaW]

Originally posted by Infratracide
ok well the land im talking about is a reservation, it is about 350 deserted acres. I will decide if its safe or not, we do live in a very densly populated area in NJ. I just wanted to convince my frineds that the police will not confiscate their equipment.

I have had my stuff confiscated from the cops in previous years. There is a good chance it will/can definately happen/

[Steelrat]

Okay, here is one reason not to play "bandit ball."

This little girl was hit in the eye by a stray paintball. Was it kids goofing, or bandit ball? Who knows? ALl I know is that anytime you play without the appropriate safeguards, this is a distinct possiblity. Are you absolutely positive you will be the only people in the area when you play? The answer would have to be "no." Even though the chances are slim, what happens if you nail some kid on a hike with their parents?

Trust me, its not worth it. Just save up the money to go to an actual field.

[LaW]

Originally posted by Steeratt
Okay, here is one reason not to play "bandit ball."

This little girl was hit in the eye by a stray paintball. Was it kids goofing, or bandit ball? Who knows? ALl I know is that anytime you play without the appropriate safeguards, this is a distinct possiblity. Are you absolutely positive you will be the only people in the area when you play? The answer would have to be "no." Even though the chances are slim, what happens if you nail some kid on a hike with their parents?

Trust me, its not worth it. Just save up the money to go to an actual field.


The day I stopped playing outlaw ball was the day I took a paintball right on my eyebrow... almost hit my eye and this was after we were done playing but osmeone thought it would be funny to lob a ball my way... never did i play it again

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by LaW
I think its a dumb idea, and is definately not legal.... What he said.

[personman]

I have no desire to play 'Bandit ball', and I never will, either. Unless you consider playing in my yard (which is pretty small actually) which probally wont happen any time soon because of the town homes that have been recentally built around my house.. but man it would be fun to go out there with velocities at like 220 or something and play airball with my inflatable santa claus :D
My friend who is in scouts with me always asks why I wont play with him in some construction site near his house. He says it is awesome and there is nothing dangerous about it and they are always safe.. but I know a couple of the kids he plays with.. they arent very smart and are just the type who would shoot at a passing car, for kicks. I keep telling my friend no I wont play, I always play at a field and he says that its a waste of money.. bleh. Oh well some day someone will call the police, or someone will get their eye taken out, or both, and they will figure out what I mean.

[WARPED1]

And thats why you won't see paintball on tv..............................

[temps]

I play bandit ball every once and a while. we found a little vally in the middle of a forest. there is no way a stray paintball is going hit anything but a tree even if you tried.

We built up the vally so it now has about 15 bunkers, a tree fort, steel barrels. and a fun thing about it is the water treatment center is near by and any overflow that they get, is dumped out of a pipe that floods the middle of the feild (only happend once while we were playing though..)

Only thing is be extra carefull, there are no refs to make sure you have barrel plugs or anything so you have to be smart about it!

[Z-man]

I agree. It won't help the sport by playing on other people's land and because of that you cannot be sure who will show up and get hurt. I used to play on my land and even then, a car drove by and TOTALLY BY CHANCE the last shot I fired before we were going to wait for the car, went through the open driver window right past the woman's head and hit the other window inside.

Needless to say I stopped playing there. It's just to hard to know where all your shots will go and better to play somewhere it's safe (like a field or on your own land if you have more than like 6 acres).

[WARPED1]

My grandfgather had 50 acres on top of a mountain I started playing on 13 years ago when I lived in massachusetts.

[Steelrat]

BTW the girl in that picture I posted lost her cornea. She will have problems for the rest of her life. There is no way that saving $30-40 is worth that.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

i say go ahead and play in the woods...350 acres is HUGE. if you guys dont know how big that is...my dad has a field thats 160 acres and its enormous, almost a full MILE long and wide. just go into the middle of the forest and play...if there are any hiking paths that go thru it just post a sign that says stay out of something so hikers dont go through it while your playing.

[Infratracide]

I knew some one would bring up that story about the little girl. Believe me when i say that I could not live with myself if something like that happend because of my, or my friends actions. Maybe you guys are right. I would still like to look at the possibilites but i doubt that we will do this.

[Steelrat]

Unless you post a sign every 2 feet for the entire distance around the playing area, someone might still get through. I am not saying its likely. Its actually very UNLIKELY that someone will come through. But on the off chance someone does, and that person gets hit, will you, in retrospect, think it was worth it?

[Z-man]

I figure, why risk it? the consequences suck for a LONG time and the benefits are only monetary. besides in cases like this, Murphy's Law ALWAYS applies. That one foot you didn't put a sign in is where a disabled veteran will come hobbling into your game and the last shot you fire will glance off a tree and take out his eye. It always happens.

[UltimatePaintballer]

if its protected, i would say not to go and play in there. but hey do whatever you want

[sps16]

even if you are safe about it, whats stopping the police from shooting you when they see the guns?

[ZAust]

yeah, chris and i had an awesome field set up, but it got shut down. in retrospect, it probably wasnt the brightest idea.


Originally posted by sps16
even if you are safe about it, whats stopping the police from shooting you when they see the guns?

or chasing you though parks? :D ;)

[sps16]

yep yep, i put so much time into that field

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by personman
but I know a couple of the kids he plays with.. they arent very smart and are just the type who would shoot at a passing car, for kicks.

You are smart. What makes "outlaw" ball unsafe is the people who compose the group. Outlaw ball can be cheap and a lot of fun provided you have the right elements. The first element is access to wooded private land (and I mean acres and acres of it). We have a 120 acre farm that we play on with tons of woods.

The second is the group. You need to have a group of people who are willing to follow all the safety rules. There are some commercial fields that I will not go to because they are not strict enough about safety.

Some people are so CHEAP!!! I don't know why they won't give a commercial field a try since it is a totally different experience. Once someone gets used to paying $30 for all day pay (half a case of paint plus air fills) it is pretty hard to convince them to shell out $60 for a day on a commercial field.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by sps16
even if you are safe about it, whats stopping the police from shooting you when they see the guns?

Because they're not as stupid as you are. Police aren't going to shoot some kid with a paintball mask on. They dont go walking through the woods looking for people with fire arms. I've never heard a story about some cop that walked into the woods, and blasted a hunter.

You guys are making to much of a big deal about this. If its not your preference to play in the woods, then dont. But dont make it sound as if the stupid actions of some, include everyone.

You guys claim to be playing safe, and then say, "My paintball still reached the road, and hit some car." Hello!! Thats not safe. You know a ball wont go 200-300 feet. They're not magic. If you're far enough away, it wont happen.

There are plenty of sections of woods in New Jersey that are just public plots of land. No one owns it. Hiking, fishing, hunting, and paintball are all activities that dont require a land use permit to be there.

Being shot accidentally in the eye, or fore head is not exclusive to outlaw ball. Bad safety is bad safety. I've played wooded outlaw ball for close to 5 years in New Jersey. I've never been arrested. I've never had equipment confiscated, and I've never lost a friend to some cop that shot him.

Like I said earlier, play safe, be respectable, play on public land, and stay away from anything that wouldnt want to be shot. Expect to be hassled occasionally by people that dont understand paintball, but other than that, it should be no problem.

[shartley]

I would suggest to anyone wanting to play “outlaw” ball, that they get permission first from whoever owns the land.. PERIOD. And if it is public land, look to what the laws are in your area… that should tell you whether you can or can not play there.

Second, make sure your “field” is clearly marked… a few rolls of caution tape costs virtually nothing at Home Depot and similar stores. You can even mark off your “buffer zone” too… it never hurts to be safe.

Third, make sure you have an adequate “buffer zone” around your new playing field. Most folks can not afford netting, but DISTANCE can work well also…. Not to mention underbrush and trees.

Fourth, try to keep it out of public view. Can you see it (or you playing) from the road? If you can, I advise moving your field.

Fifth, try to put your field where you know people do not hike/walk through on a regular basis. This is not hard to tell…. Are there any clearly visible paths? If so, they stay that way because people WALK on them. ;)

Always examine your new field in GREAT DETAIL…. You don’t want to get hurt because you didn’t see something you could have avoided. And use all other paintball safety measures…. I don’t need to go over them here.

[aaron_mag]

I agree with Shartley's post above. Hey I love paintball but if someone was playing within earshot/sight of my house you can bet I'd be out there throwing them out. There are appropriate places and non appropriate places to play.

You can't play where hikers may be waltzing around. The argument that "we have as much of a right to the land as they do" is a bunch of BS. A hiker can share the park with other users. A paintball game cannot share the land because it is dangerous for non players to be in the area.

If the place is truly remote enough to play at NO ONE should be complaining because NO ONE even knows you play there (except a rabbit or two).

[MinimagRockin']

I used to play "outlaw" in a secluded place up in the hills. It was a good hike and away from any trails. I never saw anybody besides the people I was playing with up there. Someone even called the cops on us once before we got up there. I guess while we were loading up at my friends house someone called the cops and said we were waving real guns around. Well about five cop cars came racing up to us at the foot of the hill and when they found out what we were doing they said, "Oh, ok go have fun." So as you can see "outlaw paintball" can be achieved safely if, as some other people have already said, you're safe about it. Also I think using that little girl as a deterent is very unfair, the two really have nothing to do with each other. I'm sure people have been inadvertently shot in the eye at official paintball fields before.

[Steelrat]

How is it unfair to illustrate the possible consequences of "bandit ball?" Does everyone think these things are toys? Paintball markers can be extremely dangerous when used improperly. That girl DID get her cornea shot off by a paintball gun. And she certainly wasnt playing in a game. Sure accidents can happen at an official field too, but the chances are much, much lower. Most of the injuries you hear associated with paintball come from people messing around with them at places other than official fields. So showing the picture of a girl who was injured by someone shooting a gun in an inappropriate area has everything to do with the subject at hand.

Owning one of these things is a responsibility. People who refuse to treat paintball guns with the respect they deserve will continue to tarnish the image of the sport.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Steeratt
How is it unfair to illustrate the possible consequences of "bandit ball?" Does everyone think these things are toys? Paintball markers can be extremely dangerous when used improperly. That girl DID get her cornea shot off by a paintball gun. And she certainly wasnt playing in a game. Sure accidents can happen at an official field too, but the chances are much, much lower. Most of the injuries you hear associated with paintball come from people messing around with them at places other than official fields. So showing the picture of a girl who was injured by someone shooting a gun in an inappropriate area has everything to do with the subject at hand.

Owning one of these things is a responsibility. People who refuse to treat paintball guns with the respect they deserve will continue to tarnish the image of the sport.
You're wrong, completely wrong. That picture may be related, but it doesn't not support the fact that playing paintball anywhere can be equally unsafe if people aren't cautious. You're mixing two arguements unfairly. Playing outlaw ball does not tarnish the sport/image of paintball; Stupidity does. Accidents happen by chance. Some newb on an established feild can just as easily blow his barrel plug into someones face.

[deathstalker]

Originally posted by JEDI

You're wrong, completely wrong. That picture may be related, but it doesn't not support the fact that playing paintball anywhere can be equally unsafe if people aren't cautious. You're mixing two arguements unfairly. Playing outlaw ball does not tarnish the sport/image of paintball; Stupidity does. Accidents happen by chance. Some newb on an established feild can just as easily blow his barrel plug into someones face.
No, you're wrong and this is supported by your statement that accidents happen by chance. No matter how secluded you think you are, there is ALWAYS a chance that someone else will be there. Murphy's Law dictates someone WILL be there.

Paintball is a sport that is as expensive as you want it to be. Buy a cheap marker, play stock class, play hopper ball, etc., but I feel it should only be done in appropriate places.

"Public" land does not mean you can do anything you want on it. Some communities have restricted the discharge of paintball guns (among other things), so local laws might make playing outlaw ball illegal.

Basically, asking AO'ers for their opinion does not give you permission. Contact your local authorities instead.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by deathstalker

No, you're wrong and this is supported by your statement that accidents happen by chance. No matter how secluded you think you are, there is ALWAYS a chance that someone else will be there. Murphy's Law dictates someone WILL be there.

Paintball is a sport that is as expensive as you want it to be. Buy a cheap marker, play stock class, play hopper ball, etc., but I feel it should only be done in appropriate places.

"Public" land does not mean you can do anything you want on it. Some communities have restricted the discharge of paintball guns (among other things), so local laws might make playing outlaw ball illegal.

Basically, asking AO'ers for their opinion does not give you permission. Contact your local authorities instead.

Haha, this has become a lame arguement. I'm simply saying that bad things can happen anywhere. Playing outlaw ball is not black and white. You're not evil for doing it. I did it for 5 years, safely. Murphy's law applies to PB feilds as well. But you're right though. Asking AO is not the way to go. Ask your towns authorities.

[Steelrat]

Sure, accidents can happen anywhere. The question is the likelihood of them happening. The chances of an injury are much lower in a tightly regulated and protected environment than in an open, publicly accessible place. Using the same argument of "accidents can happen anywhere" would validate things like street racing, another dangerous activity that should be confined to appropriate venues, but which people still insist upon doing in public areas.

[GoatBoy]

Originally posted by JEDI


Haha, this has become a lame arguement. I'm simply saying that bad things can happen anywhere. Playing outlaw ball is not black and white. You're not evil for doing it. I did it for 5 years, safely. Murphy's law applies to PB feilds as well. But you're right though. Asking AO is not the way to go. Ask your towns authorities.

It is fairly black and white when it comes to doing things in places where you are not explicitly supposed to do them.

An example of this is playing paintball on a big plot of land that isn't yours and hasn't been prepared in any way for paintball. Or humans for that matter.

Yes, accidents happen anywhere. Anywhere you go, you assume inherent risks in all your activities. However, you shouldn't have to be prepared to get shot by a bunch of paintballers on public land that is clearly not meant for paintball. If you happen to have a paintball accident on a paintball field, that's one thing.

If you have a paintball accident on public land, or land that isn't yours, that's completely different.

You think a judge is going to listen to your "well accidents can happen anywhere" argument?



And you know, safety isn't necessarily about paintball guns. Paintball fields are, more or less, meant for humans to play on. And I even question the condition of some of the fields, but that's for another thread.

You go out to some random plot of land, there's no telling what you might find out there. You could have deceptive landscape (read: big obscured holes in the ground), construction hazards, wild animals (read: wild, poisonous animals), insects, rocks, thorns, cactii, man-eating rabbits with big sharp teeth, etc.


So you're not only talking about random people's safety -- it's also your own safety you're risking.



Sure, accidents happen. I just don't consider that a justification for running around with scissors.

[Lohman446]

It all comes down to making certain you are 99% safe (nothing is perfect). Understand this, if that was my daughter shot in the eye by someone in a place they were not supposed to be... well, to paraphrase TK - it is unlikely that they would go to jail, I on the other hand, would for a long time.

If you feel you can be as safe there as at a field... then go. I don't play (outlaw) paintball with some of my friends because they drink when they do it, firing off the field at people is normal... so I don't do it. Has anyone ever been seriously hurt - no...

When I say safe, I mean triple checked (then again I don't go to play paintball without taking 6 batteries for my hopper (it takes one)). The idea of someone being hurt... just... its not worth it

Also keep in mind that chronoing of markers frequently is an important safety measure - make sure wherever you decide to play that you are safe.

BTW - how much $$$ are you saving playing in the woods, I pay $10 a day for entry and air - paint can be had at the field I play at for $45 a case (whatever has been found for the economy paint for the week) to $60 a case for marbalizers or similar. If you are talking $10 or $20 a day, the time you would have to invest into making certain things are safe, jsut isn't worth it.

[aaron_mag]

There is no doubt outlaw ball is cheaper. Think about it:

Outlaw:
Paint $50 a case for PMI Premium
Airfill $3

Total (assume shooting 1/2 a case) $28

Field:
Entry $15
Paint $65 a case for 32 degree comp
Airfill $3

Total (assuming shooting 1/2 a case) $50.50

There is no doubt that the field is probably going to be cooler (and have cooler things). So it is a trade off. Somebody with a family, however, is going to feel it big time (family of four would be $202 at a field versus $112.

We usually go to the field once a month and play outlaw once a month. Of course if you consider that I had to buy a hand held chrono, scuba tank, and fill station maybe I don't save that much after all :). Furthermore if you figure the cost of ownership for a 120 acre farm maybe the savings aren't so great after all........

So in the end you are right unless you have a friend/family member that has a large tract of land and all the needed safety equipment. :D

[LaW]

I guess it depends, the field I play at is byop and 10 dollars entry/all day air and is pretty darn nice.... So the more you play the more that outlaw ball really is not cheaper that day.

[Grasshopper]

The "outlaw" field I play at is actually very nice (nicer than my local field). It's very safe. People have chronos, there is barrel plug signs, mask signs, etc. Also, about 30-40 people show up, so it's a lot of fun. People have been playing there for years, and I've never seen/heard of anyone getting hurt. It's off the road, down a trail right in the middle of this overhang of trees. No possible way a paintball could hit a passing car (unless it went through like 50 trees :rolleyes:). It's great fun, a lot cheaper, and nicer than my local field.

I guess it just depends on where your playing, if it's legal, and how careful you are. Make sure noone is around (at all), ask the cops and make sure it's ok, and just enforce mask/barrel plug rules and stuff. Try and run it like a normal field would be ran.

[shartley]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
There is no doubt outlaw ball is cheaper. Think about it:

Outlaw:
Paint $50 a case for PMI Premium
Airfill $3

Total (assume shooting 1/2 a case) $28

Field:
Entry $15
Paint $65 a case for 32 degree comp
Airfill $3

Total (assuming shooting 1/2 a case) $50.50

There is no doubt that the field is probably going to be cooler (and have cooler things). So it is a trade off. Somebody with a family, however, is going to feel it big time (family of four would be $202 at a field versus $112.

We usually go to the field once a month and play outlaw once a month. Of course if you consider that I had to buy a hand held chrono, scuba tank, and fill station maybe I don't save that much after all :). Furthermore if you figure the cost of ownership for a 120 acre farm maybe the savings aren't so great after all........

So in the end you are right unless you have a friend/family member that has a large tract of land and all the needed safety equipment. :D
This is true. And it is also part of the reason why I have my own field as well. I have a family of 6 and 4 of us play paintball in one way or another. That can dig deep into your pockets if the only option for playing paintball was to go to a business field.

I don’t have a scuba setup yet, but will at some point…. But do have the chronograph. I don’t count the land costs as part of the equation though…. Those costs would be there whether you had your paintball field on the property or not. ;)

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by shartley
This is true. And it is also part of the reason why I have my own field as well. I have a family of 6 and 4 of us play paintball in one way or another. That can dig deep into your pockets if the only option for playing paintball was to go to a business field.


Yes this is difficult for younger AOers to understand. You start multiplying everything by 3 or 4 and things start getting really expensive. I have nothing against paying fees at the field (they have to stay in business after all) but due to expense it becomes more of a special occasion rather than a routine outing. Especially when more of the family decides to go as well.



I don’t have a scuba setup yet, but will at some point…

Oh god!!! Scuba setup is the way to go. I can't believe I ever lived without one. I bought the tank from a local scuba shop for $150. The fill station was another $55. The scuba shop fills my tank for $5 and two of us play for two outings on that. It is so much more convenient.

[shartley]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Yes this is difficult for younger AOers to understand. You start multiplying everything by 3 or 4 and things start getting really expensive. I have nothing against paying fees at the field (they have to stay in business after all) but due to expense it becomes more of a special occasion rather than a routine outing. Especially when more of the family decides to go as well.

Oh god!!! Scuba setup is the way to go. I can't believe I ever lived without one. I bought the tank from a local scuba shop for $150. The fill station was another $55. The scuba shop fills my tank for $5 and two of us play for two outings on that. It is so much more convenient.
Yes, I enjoy going to “organized” fields as well. But we do so for the entire experience, not just because we are playing paintball. Which is actually why we play at home with friends too….. paintball is more than JUST shooting paintballs at each other. ;)

Yes, a scuba setup will definitely be a help. As for CO2, I have purchased a bunch of used 20 oz tanks from a field. I think they were like $8 a piece and came WITH a fill. I repainted them black (they were a bit raggedy) and they work great. I seriously suggest folks look into whether their local fields are selling any used tanks as well….. you can’t beat the deal.

[Crighton]

I rent a 50lb bulk co2 tank for 3 bucks a month. A 50lb fill is 11 bucks. The fill station and scale ran me 50 bucks together.

I lug that beast out to our outlaw field on sundays and charge a buck per tank no matter the size. Even at 1 buck a fill the tank has already paid for its rental fee for the year and the cost of the scale and fill station. I can't even imagine how much cash this thing has saved our group. The local fields all charge 4-5 bucks a fill.