Top 3 "thing" that are detrimental to paintball.

[Carbon]

Top 3 "things" that are detrimental to paintball and its proliferation. So gimme three or more in your opinion. Im pretty sure this has been done before but what the L.

1) Vandalism/assaults with paintball paraphenelia. Assault on and off the field too.

2) Jerk, elitist, chicken-hawking players, the kind that ruins it for the 1st time rentals.

3) The general militaristic perception of paintball. Alot of us which was drawn to paintball to begin with.

Word!

[adam shannon]

you forgot pb will never make it to tv until cheating stops and on field fights with refs are controlled.

[Carbon]

you forgot pb will never make it to tv until cheating stops and on field fights with refs are controlled.

I guess so, but look at baseball and hockey and any other kinda sport. I guess that human error factor is one factor that make sports what it is.

[hobbesTZ]

Or how about people throwing out 20+ BPS when they didn't really pull the trigger half that many times during the second...That's a pretty big detractant.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

About the cheating can someone tell me a sport were there isn't cheating, even in sports where they have fouls. You could consider it cheating if you foul someone and the ref doesnt call it, and thats just the same as wiping.

[yeahthatsme]

Originally posted by MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata
About the cheating can someone tell me a sport were there isn't cheating, even in sports where they have fouls. You could consider it cheating if you foul someone and the ref doesnt call it, and thats just the same as wiping.


while that is true, paintball has RAMPANT cheating, it is a known fact that more or less all of the pro teams cheat and probably most of the ameteure teams too. the cheating in paintball goes above and beyond that of most sports, so it cant be compared to them.

[kosmo]

#3 Stupid people doing stupid things. I.E. lighting up rec players at 20 bps. Firing paintballs from cars while driving down the street. Paying 1500 dollars for an Intimidator. Parents who say its too militaristic. The world is full of stupid people and the only thing that will solve that is widespread nuclear war.

#2 Lack of facilities to play real paintball at. Backyard ball is fun, but not exactly a sport. Some people have to drive many hours just to play paintball. How are people supposed to get started at a young age if they have to ask their parents drive them 2 or 3 hours away to go play?

#1. COST I dont see how you can argue with this. It is absolutely impossible. How many people do you all know that either cant or dont play because its expensive? That vandalism stuff has almost no bearing on pb when considered against cost. Almost all paintball related problems extend from this. Not having enough fields. New people not taking up the sport after their first time playing. Not being on TV because its not profitable enough to the companies that would show it... Etc Etc Etc

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata
About the cheating can someone tell me a sport were there isn't cheating, even in sports where they have fouls.

Tennis, Golf, Running


but, IMHO,

3) bastards with guns vandalizing and injuring *POOF*

2) pb not being profitable for anyone but major manufs and distibutors

1) we classify ourselves as 'extremeists' and care about trying to get it on TV and try to get it it into the major public eye

[Carbon]

Cost is a good one to put up there, true painball has got cheaper, over the years, it is somewhat a burden for many players. I guess you have to look at age demographic though, to the 13 to 18yr old bracket paintball is expensive, accounting FPO type fields. Which brings another point, lack, of well organized fields.

[logamus]

Originally posted by yeahthatsme



while that is true, paintball has RAMPANT cheating, it is a known fact that more or less all of the pro teams cheat and probably most of the ameteure teams too. the cheating in paintball goes above and beyond that of most sports, so it cant be compared to them.

this would be fixed with proper reffing.

is wiping/playing with a hit really as rampant as people claim or is it just percieved to be as rampant? its been a while since i have been to a tourny, but the last time i went there seemed to be pleanty of refs and i dont know of anyone that wiped a hit or played on after an obvious hit. people tend to be less inclined to break a rule if someone is watching them, if "it is a known fact that more or less all of the pro teams cheat" then i suggest the fix to that is more refs, espically since you cant mandate morals.

[GT]

I think it all comes down to proffestional field and staff.

a few things I see that I dont like:

1. Dont show up to work in your worst close. Wear a nice ref jersey and mask. nice shorts and shoes.

2. do not allow cussing at your feild

3. if you cant fill me to 3 or 4.5k dont charge me for air.

4. your rental equipment should look and preform fairly well

5. real reff training. I was at twisted last weekend and both the reffs stood right next to each other durring a game of 32 on 32.

Just a few things i notice. I really dont think cheating is as big as you guys do. I dont think I have ever seen it on the rec side

[tony3]

I don't see it that often in rec ball, but once I play team practices with the better tourney guys, if you dont wipe you practically can't win:rolleyes:

[kosmo]

Originally posted by gtrsi


2. do not allow cussing at your feild



As a sworn member of the U.S. Army, a firm believer in the constitution and the right to freedom of speech contained within, and someone who gets really pissed off sometimes, this is all I have to say about your idea: Screw that.


Edit I think Ill erase the profanity before someone else does.... but my passionate anger for this arguement still stands, and though profanity may be the most efficient and effective verbal way of expressing that, Ill delete it this time.

[adam shannon]

swearing...were not talking about a freedom of speech issue. were talking about 13 yo kids that cant play a game without cursing people off the field. "get the poof out", "your poofing hit", "Poofing check him". that is a detrement to the sport ever being taken seriously. parents will be reluctant to let their kids go beyond the first day playing once they see that, and what media outlet would jump at putting that on tv.

cheating...when cheating is an integral part of the sport and its tactics at the tourney level what does that say about the ethics of the sport. the promotors dont care they get paid reguardless of wether its a clean game or not. when teams practice the cheat, and indocrinate new players on the best ways to do it there is a definate problem with the culture of the sport. this is one reason PB will not be taken seriously...other sports have fouls and penalties for stuff thats not allowed. like holding in football. most other spsorts penalties result from bone head adrenalin moves or sloppy play. in PB wiping is a calculated planned cheat. a player gets hit, he looks around to see whos watching, and when the oprotunity is right and he thinks nobody is watching he brushes it off on a bunker or does a superman slide. not like football where holding is usually a last ditch effort when your being beat physically and your the only one between a 300 lb lineman and your QB...still a stupid move but more despiration and rash thinking...not carefully and conciously planned.

at the nppl nj s7 i was in the vip box watching a game. a player on atomix red had his leg hanging out of his bunker. a player on the oposite tape a good 50 feet away walked a string onto his ankle. the whole crowd...200 plus and the vip box saw it hit and break on his ankle. the ref by the shooter even saw it. the atomix cheater pulled his leg back in tight and a second later it came back out clean before a ref could check him.....the ref calls him clean. everybody in the stands goes nuts screaming that he was hit. all the vip's...promotors, nppl staff, ppp, sponsors, etc in the vip box dont even get upset about what they saw. one guy even says "that was a slick move". what does that say about tourney pb and its chances of being taken seriously.

atomix red went on to win that game and knock out the team they cheated because that player that cheated made it to the snake. atomix red came in first in the prelims in their division...i wonder why. by the second day after people told the refs to watch them and the reffing in general tightened up atomix red got creamed in the semis and didnt even make the finals. cheaters got what they deserved in the long run after shafting the teams they played already...thats wholesale theft.

ask yourself..would you watch a cheatfest on TV, would you pay good money to sit in the stands if pb went big time like football, if you knew your hometeam would either cheat or be cheated. pb isnt rampant with cheating, paintball has become a culture of cheating at the national tourney level. look at the salm thing and the fracas at the mardi gras. if pb was on national tv at thae time that would have been the death of pb, if the whole world could see how it really is at the pro level right in their living rooms.

[Crighton]

I'm just curious but why hasn't anyone developed paint that shows up under UV? Player wipes it. Ref comes over and does his paint check with a portable UV light. Even if he wiped it really well the residue would show under UV.

Cops use them all the time.

[FreshmanBob]

Originally posted by kosmo

#1. COST I dont see how you can argue with this. It is absolutely impossible. How many people do you all know that either cant or dont play because its expensive? That vandalism stuff has almost no bearing on pb when considered against cost. Almost all paintball related problems extend from this. Not having enough fields. New people not taking up the sport after their first time playing. Not being on TV because its not profitable enough to the companies that would show it... Etc Etc Etc

Cost? Dude, 5 years ago the cheapest case of paint was around 70 bucks and 5 years before that it was well over 100 bucks. Now anyone can get a case for between 35 and 45 bucks off the internet, not mention a good mask co2 tank and semi for under 200 bucks.

The cost of paintball has gone waaaay down and gets better as the sport grows.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by Crighton
I'm just curious but why hasn't anyone developed paint that shows up under UV? Player wipes it. Ref comes over and does his paint check with a portable UV light. Even if he wiped it really well the residue would show under UV.

Cops use them all the time.

you have a valid point, and im not flaming you...but what does it say about a sport..a game, when the refs need to be inspector gadget just to keep the game honest.

[Fred]

the UV paint could work, if they players had a different outfit for every game they played... legitimate hits from earlier in the day could be called as a wipe for the current game...

I really would like to see an enforceable penalty system installed, with no exceptions. you wipe, you and your team are summarily kicked, your points revoked, and you're banned for the season... second offense, kick em permanently.

the way blatant cheaters like the black ninja can get back into the game disgusts me... and until things look a little more honorable, I'm not planning on getting into any serious tourney competition.

---Fred

[GT]

Originally posted by kosmo
[B]

As a sworn member of the U.S. Army, a firm believer in the constitution and the right to freedom of speech contained within, and someone who gets really pissed off sometimes, this is all I have to say about your idea: Screw that.



:confused: ,
Would you walk into an elementary or middle school and swear it up, simply because you "think" it is your right. I think you have a very limited view on what the constitution says and how it is interpreted. All to often a law is created or amended only to be further interpreted by the court or regulating body.

Sure I can understand the occasional "crap poo" every now and then when playing. Not screaming at the top of your lungs how the last game sucked. Please remember we are not in a war zone we are playing paintball. This isn’t "saving private ryan", "black hawk down", or "platoon" however it is capture the flag, center flag push, and elimination

[elpimpo]

Originally posted by adam shannon
you forgot pb will never make it to tv until cheating stops and on field fights with refs are controlled.

id like to say stfu you guys who preach this crap are a bunch of freaking rec ballers who dont even know what tourney ball is. its going to happen. every sport people cheat. you dont get all but hurt when somebody holds in football and a reff doesnt catch it. players get pennalized in paintball for cheating as well as any other sport. so just shut up

[kosmo]

First off, a paintball field is not an elementary school. I dont go to elementary school to relieve stress or get an adrenaline rush. And youre right, its not Blackhawk Down, its a sport. Ever listen on ESPN when they mic the football players? You think theyre being "nice" to each other on the lines? If youve got a problem with some brat yelling that someones f'n out or whatever, shoot him. Cant talk in the dead box. Thats the point of competition, putting your money where your mouth is. I will not stand idly by and watch paintball turned into golf on CBS. Paintball is an engaging and very emotional sport, and turning it into a dainty pansy-fest would in my mind be detrimental to what the sport is and should be.

[elpimpo]

Originally posted by Fred
I really would like to see an enforceable penalty system installed, with no exceptions. you wipe, you and your team are summarily kicked, your points revoked, and you're banned for the season... second offense, kick em permanently.

the way blatant cheaters like the black ninja can get back into the game disgusts me... and until things look a little more honorable, I'm not planning on getting into any serious tourney competition.

---Fred

thats so incredibley homosexual of you to say. obviously u dont play any other sports and you play rec ball. it happens deal with it. evry sport does it. there are inforced penalties like in every other sport. u guys just need to cowboy up and shut up

[FutureMagOwner]

people shutup with the childish name callings.

the fact is fred is on the right track with enforcement. if a player cheats in the oylmpics or of baseball or whatever the player is the one who should ge in trouble not the whole team is my belief.

[Fred]

Originally posted by elpimpo


thats so incredibley homosexual of you to say. obviously u dont play any other sports and you play rec ball.


Gee, what a convincing argument... can I save this one for future reference? :rolleyes: spoken like a true TWIB.


Originally posted by elpimpo
it happens deal with it. evry sport does it. there are inforced penalties like in every other sport. u guys just need to cowboy up and shut up

Actually, in another sport, lets say... car racing... if a team cheats in order to make their car win unfairly, and they're caught at it, they face BIG fines, banning, and they get smeared so bad that they're pretty much done racing.

If a runner or other athlete is caught cheating using performance enhancers to win, theyre done. period. reputation is tarneshed and no one with a good rep will go near them to avoid guilt by association.

If you think cheating will continue to be a part of the sport, and it won't go away so I should just deal with it, YOU are the problem.

---Fred

[GT]

Originally posted by kosmo
Ever listen on ESPN when they mic the football players? You think theyre being "nice" to each other on the lines?

If youve got a problem with some brat yelling that someones f'n out or whatever, shoot him.

Cant talk in the dead box. Thats the point of competition, putting your money where your mouth is. I will not stand idly by and watch paintball turned into golf on CBS.

Paintball is an engaging and very emotional sport, and turning it into a dainty pansy-fest would in my mind be detrimental to what the sport is and should be.

This is the point. Some of you that are just a little hardcore and have issues with what paintball is and is not.

I don’t see how not cussing has anything to do with changing the game, however should your intelligence denotes otherwise....

[Fred]

as for cussing in football, college and pro football players are playing with their peers... there are no 10 year olds on the field playing alongside adults... in paintball that happens every weekend, across the country.

i'd suggest you broaden your vocabulary if you can't express your emotions without a 4 letter curse... :p

[the_next_guy_]

kevmaster, I run cross country and there is a ton of cheating: pushing, kicking, running off the course...

[Carbon]

Thats great yall... back to the topic at hand, top 3 things that are detrimental to the proliferation of paintball.


2) Jerk, elitist, chicken-hawking
players, the kind that ruins it for the 1st time rentals...and everyone else.

In anycase, if there werent us "freaking rec ballers" there would be no tourney. Rec ball is the heart and the backbone of the industry, and it will be for years to come. When it comes to tourney, for the most part, paintball become a bussiness venture, unfortunately.

[elpimpo]

i agree that rec ballers keep it a live but they dont play tourneys so they have no clue what there talking about when they talk about wiping

[Carbon]

So what is it that were talkin about when we talk about tourny players? Straight questions elpimpo...no disrespect.

-Do you wipe when you play tourney?

-Do you consider yourself a cheater?

-If you can please elaborate, on how as a tourney player you would, if possible elimniate/ drasticaly reduce cheating.

So as a tourneyplayer fill us rec ballers in: on what we dont know about regarding/playing tourneys. Stuff about playing the "grey area" The whole, "its the reffs responsibility to call the hit". And the whole everybodys doing it axiom.

And once agin im not pickin on ya, or dissing. I just wan to know what your whole prespective is on this whole matter, hope fully without people flaming ya.

word.

[jayloo]

ANYONE who refers to....
paintballs as BULLETS,
face masks as HELMETS and
markers or even guns as GATS.

If u'r gonna play know what thae equipment is actually named for safety sake.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by elpimpo


id like to say stfu you guys who preach this crap are a bunch of freaking rec ballers who dont even know what tourney ball is. its going to happen. every sport people cheat. you dont get all but hurt when somebody holds in football and a reff doesnt catch it. players get pennalized in paintball for cheating as well as any other sport. so just shut up

your a 12 yo wiper arent you?

[elpimpo]

actually im 16 and ive wiped maybe twice. i believe its not that big of a dea. do i get mad when people wipe against me? yes but its going to happen. its the way it is and theres no way to stop. no matter what sport your in if theres a way to cheat its going to happen so ive learned to deal with it. i also think that if theres money on the line and you pay a lot to play the event its going to make it happen even more. i just wish you guys would quit complaining about something that is going to hapen no matter what just so you can say that you dont like it.

[cphilip]

elpimpo... don't call people names.

And don't wipe or tolerate it. Giving in to it is to surrender the sport to hooligans. You do not HAVE to tolerate it and you do not have to be part of the problem. It's not something that is acceptable or something you have to accept. If you did it once then stop. You know its wrong. You can continue to find it disgusting and continue to speak out against it. So if you want to be in this sport do not try and justify it. It's not justifiable. It's dispicable and it's not something anyone should try and defend. Just cause everyone does it does not make it right. Period. End of discussion.

[Carbon]

i ask again:

So what is it that were talkin about when we talk about tourny players? Straight questions elpimpo...no disrespect.

-Do you wipe when you play tourney?

-Do you consider yourself a cheater?

-If you can please elaborate, on how as a tourney player you would, if possible elimniate/ drasticaly reduce cheating.

So as a tourneyplayer fill us rec ballers in: on what we dont know about regarding/playing tourneys. Stuff about playing the "grey area" The whole, "its the reffs responsibility to call the hit". And the whole everybodys doing it axiom.

And once agin im not pickin on ya, or dissing. I just wan to know what your whole prespective is on this whole matter, hope fully without people flaming ya.

word.

...or should i just let age be the excuse. Anyway... there is "dealing with it" and there is becoming part of the problem.

[Gman63]

Just to chime in my 2 cents worth. I currently ref at my local field and play on there scenario team. I have been qualified and worked as a head umpire in Division 1 Collegate soccer and Vollyball and even ref'd open pro beach vollyball. I have participated in numerous sports over the years with paintball being one of them. Yes there is cheating in all sports both amature and professional. The penalties for cheating is stiff and enforced when caught. When I rec-ball at my local field I let all of the experienced players know up front that I will not tolerate any intimidating tactics, play or language toward any new players. I also will not allow it from the newbs either. If I catch you cheating, first time its a one for one pull. If I catch you a second time you get about a one hour break. Third times a charm, your gone for the day. Get in my face or any other refs face, you will not be allowed back on the property. If you feel that it is your constitutional right to use profanity at the field, it is my right to ask you to leave with no refund because you are on private property and your rights are now limited to what the field and property owner allows. I am not talking about the occasional word here or there but a constant use of the verbage at loud levels dureing play. It should not be tolerated at all. If a player tells me to check his *POOF*ing hopper I will inform that player to watch his mouth and let them know another comment like that directed toward me or another ref will get them eliminated and some time to sit and watch.
Problems with the sport are mainly around people who play at the local tournys and think there Gods on the field and that no body but a pro could possibly take them out. First off, check your ego and attitude at the gate, its not needed at a rec-game or torny thats are not professional. Second dont light new plays who have rental gear up every game with 20+ balls and then say sorry afterword. If they get shot up enough they will not come back. Run enough new players off or send little johnny off home with thirty or forty welts and his mom and dad are not going to allow him to play anymore and it hurts everyone. Lastly, limit the amount of paint a player can shoot in a game. Go ahead and flame me for it I dont care. I play woods ball and scenario ball mainly because I dont like playing in an enviroment where people get there big thrill off of 1 case, 1 kill. In speedball now days so much paint is getting thrown the average player cant afford to play even at 30-40 dollars a case. Make players at the lower levels play to be more accurate with their equipment. You do not have to be that good to spray a case of paint down field and eventually get one out of 2000 to hit something, 1 out of 200 or 300 would give you a much better percentage. (Steps off of soap box) Thanks

[DiRTyBuNNy]

One of the things that irks me about the paintball industry is that it focuses too much on the tourney aspect of the game even though statistics show that only 2-3% of players annually attend a tournament. Oh well..what can I say?

[Bolter]

not meaning to offend anyone at all but I hate the Pro paintballer way of if we are playing a game of paintball we have goggles on. Fair enough right, but when you do things like chrono it doesn't seem to matter if goggles are on or off. When you get ready for game on and everyone has there goggles on and are firing a couple of shots, there is always that immune referee with his goggles on the top of his head. I have read countless magazines, played at many top end tournies and have seen lots of websites where I have witnessed this. I remember an Avalanche player (when Chris Lasagne played for em) coming to chrono at a millenium event and everyone had goggles on and a barrel sock on, and he had neither and walked up to the chrono and did his thing. Lots of people started saying "hey....goggles on!" and he turned and shouted "where's the sign? I don't see no bloody sign"

not sure he got our point. It'll just take one incident.

[elpimpo]

lasoyas a homo (lasagne thats priceless)

[Xerces]

no ones said SP? ;)

[Richter]

Top 3 "things" that are detrimental to paintball and its proliferation.
all the ones carbon said and these:

1. the lack of good press: it always seems to be bad press that gets into the media about our sport.

2. Industry support for the tourney/cheating culture that is compitition paintball or the tourney/cheating culture for that matter.

it is this hoodlumism that creates an effect that won't make us mainstream, will eventually stagnate the sport, and is what trickles down to the overshooting and hoodlumism you see on the local level.

as for industry support:

I hate that picture in the magazine of chris lasoya in the national pb advetisements with about 20 hellfire hits and him filling a pod.
So i have no respect for National/Draxxus

I hate the advertisments for evil paintball promoting this tourney/cheating culture.
So i have no respect for PMI/Evil

Does anyone remember when ADG and WGP banned the NPPL for year in sponsorship support because of game fixing in the finals? i think i remember it was between the Team X-treme and Fusion ( i might be mistaken). They didn't leave forever though, or try to promote change ( maybe they did try to promote change; i don't know)

3. The lack of really enforceable rules that don't tolerate cheating and the lack of responsiblity at the promoter level. The rules are really design with cheating in mind. If you willfull try to defraud another team it is just a penalty. Most any sport, where you pay an entry fee to win big prizes or cash, there are punishments for defrauding activity; Examples: banning for life or legal prosecution for such fraudulent activity. Look in most southern states: most have state laws that if you are cheating in big money bass fishing tournament you go to jail!

Yes i have been on the national tourney scene before so i have seen it first hand.

I was thinking about trying to start a field or just being a local event promoter but even the big two distributers I could not trust to do business with. i guess i could go with another paint company and put in my enforceable rules...

[Carbon]

2. Industry support for the tourney/cheating culture that is compitition paintball or the tourney/cheating culture for that matter.

Thats an interesting point. An average rec type person look at these glam/glory pics, and most of them dont read between the lines, or even know those lines exist.

Oh yeah i think you should push for the promotion of that tourney. Enforce your rules and make a statement. Ya may not change the culture overnight, but grass-roots it the way to go. And i think havin a rep for running sparklin clean tournies, is a great one to have.

thnx for yer input.

[Severe]

I think everyone is missing the point. If you're talking about detrimental and proliferation of paintball, then you're talking about rec ball.

After all, that is essentially where EVERYONE starts. gtrsi and Dirtybunny are the two people I see who are closest to really answering the question here.

Anyway, here's my three answers.

1) Mismanaged fields. Whether it's woods or speedball, if the management/refs don't do their very best to provide good equipment and a playing experience, then first time players will not become return players. I could write a small book on this topic alone. Just understand that I think this includes markers, masks, fields and staff.

2) The portrayal of paintball as a violent sport. Yes, we use guns...call them markers if you want, but they are guns. However, the industry does very little to advertise the safety record of pb. That does NOT mean we have to do away with the whole para-military image...we can embrace that and still promote safety.

3) Trying to prematurely move paintball to TV. Paintball is not ready. Say what you want, but it is not. Let it have the niche shows on OLN and such, but keep it away from primetime.

I hardly think the sport/industry is suffering. In fact, I think it's enjoying explosive growth. But what potential players need are good safe facilities in which they can go play.

[GoatBoy]

I don't really know where to start. On a pragmatic level, I'm with Severe on this one.

As I've said in other posts, recball is the most visible arm of our sport, not tournament.

Therefore the most bang for the buck is to fix things at the recball level. So, I totally agree with #1.

#2, I agree again, and I'd like to add that the marketing geniuses have something to do with it. "EXTREME RAGE!"
"INTIMIDATOR!" A quick perusal through the naming conventions of our industry would indicate that we seek to attract the more emotionally disturbed segment of our society. That is one clear divergence from the gun industry that paintball has taken. Anyone remember Dogma? "We call this one the 'fecalator'." I guess I'm just venting a personal pet peeve here. I just think the marketing used is as immature as, well...

... the children that blow the money on these products.


Which kind of leads me into an area which I'm sure will be controversial... But paintball just doesn't seem to be populated by the brightest of people. I hate to be elitist, but it's sort of the truth in my eyes. Look at these forums and see how many people just simply cannot read instructions or do a simple search. How many times do we have to answer the "CO2 on mags" question?

The trend bleeds into the running of the fields, and well, basically everything else in paintball. Fields and shops appear to be started up by people who have a real love of the sport, but have absolutely no idea how to run a business, or treat a customer, or understand basic high school physics in some cases. And I have to add, the ability to think in complete thoughts and compose complete sentences is sadly lacking in our little community.

There aren't really enough good people to go around in this community to counteract this trend.


So uhm... to put it bluntly... What's detrimental to paintball?


Too many morons.

[Carbon]

There aren't really enough good people to go around in this community to counteract this trend.So uhm... to put it bluntly... What's detrimental to paintball? Too many morons.

Interesting point, but id have to say if there are or were too many morons in this sport, i dont think paintball could have seen the succes it has now, or be where it is now. If morons were running the show paintball would of Darwined it self to the ground.

One of the greates ironies of paintball is the fact that it has not reached mainstream (primetime, X games), yet it is one of the most addictive and funnest activities you can do and encompasses such a large demographic.



I guess I'm just venting a personal pet peeve here. I just think the marketing used is as immature as, well...... the children that blow the money on these products.

I used to have a similar pet peve. What can i say, kids these days have more buying power, due largely from the parental units of course. I suppose not everybody can be a critical thinker, kids in the 14-17 yr old range, are kids.... They are young and impressionable. I guess im glad they arent playin with lawn darts.


I hate to be elitist, but it's sort of the truth in my eyes. Look at these forums and see how many people just simply cannot read instructions or do a simple search. How many times do we have to answer the "CO2 on mags" question?

Yeah it gets kinda annoying, simple fact is:

1)you can ignore the question, and possible let someody else answer the q's

2)Reply the the thread with a "use the search bar"...or while your on the reply page...

3)...tell him what the deal is with co2 and Mags. Wouldn't that solicit a more enlightened community vibe we all seek?

Word.

[kosmo]

Originally posted by Gman63
When I rec-ball at my local field I let all of the experienced players know up front that I will not tolerate any intimidating tactics, play or language toward any new players. I also will not allow it from the newbs either.

I would gladly never play at your "golf course" of a paintball field. Thats exactly the attitude that I was talking about. Its part of the game. Its part of almost every game. Except golf. And depending on where you play, bowling. I mean think about it, if youre in a tourney the object is to win, even if its not a pro level tourney. How is intimidating the other team not to your advantage? If you cant handle being intimidated or you cant intimidate back, then you are just plain not a good player/athlete or team.

That having been said, no I am absolutely not out there to mess with a newbies head during rec ball. Well sometimes, but it depends on the situation. There are certain times when intimdation is warranted in rec ball. However, even in rec ball I dont think such behavior should be rightfully outlawed. A team of recballers is still a team, and as such the more mature and experienced members of the team should be looking out for the first timers to protect them from such tactics should someone there not be able to handle it.

[sbpyro]

I'm just speaking from my experience in woodsball.
I've seen a group of guys that play in tournies go play woodsball and procede to play the way they do in a tourney. Wiping, blindfire, and bunkering newbies. I've been bunkered before and understand it can happen. I guess my problem with players that can not seperate tourney play to rec ball. THERE ARE NO PRIZES INVOLVED! If your group can move and eliminate the other team then do so, but if you got nailed by a rental just deal with it, again part of the game. I'm a big fan or tourneys and think the tourney approach is not right for rec ball.

[GT]

Originally posted by GoatBoy

Which kind of leads me into an area which I'm sure will be controversial... But paintball just doesn't seem to be populated by the brightest of people. I hate to be elitist, but it's sort of the truth in my eyes.

I think the same thing. I just didn’t have the balls to post it.

I get this picture in my mind about the local store owner. Probably doesn’t have a BA or BS. The store is one of the largest portions of his income. He does it because he loves the sport and tries to "live" on what he makes. There is nothing wrong with that however,

Problem is I don’t think we are in the era of paintball where someone can own a store and make a decent living. This same scenario can be applied to the field owner. I think this is where the large markup lies at our local store. Do we need the local store? You bet. Do we need to pay 60 bucks for factory seconds case of paint from our local field? Probably not, but hey the guy has got to make a living :confused:

I think the sport will hit a brick wall as far as growth is concerned. When? I have no clue, however the cheaper we make it the more accessible it is to the masses and in turn with more people playing the greater potential revenue is generated.

I also agree that we are in not in a position right now to jump to the tube, however if we do maybe we wont get that much exposure.

Just a few thoughts.

BTW if you guys are spending tuition money on paintball, please stop. Finish school and then join the rest of us on the field. IF I am around I have no problem sharing a case or 2 for a starving college student.

jb

[tsc]

1.) Stupidity.

Paintball is a dangerous sport. You can cite statistics at me all you want to tell me it's sage, but it is only safe because we fight to make it that way. Goggles can withstand a shot from a .22. Did you know that? That's so your eyes won't have to withstand the impact from a glob of paint going 200 MPH. Go soak an egg in vinegar for a few days. Take that yolk that's left over and shoot it with a.single.paintball. That is your eye, sans goggles.
Wear your googgles.

No, there have been no paintball related fatalities THUS FAR. But as paintball has opened up to a wider (and younger) group of people, the tight knit communities that emphasise safety above all else have fallen apart. I hear stories every day at school about how funny it was to shoot someone in the face, without goggles.

Barrel plugs/bags are a GOOD IDEA. Period. No one is expected to wear their goggles around the staging area, everyone is expected to ensure the safety of their fellow players. A friend of mine had to leave the feild after being shot in the face by some ignorant kid who refused to use his barrel bag, saying "It was an accident."

Same with velocity regulations. They are there for a reason!

The more people we get into paintball, the less and less we seem to remember these things. The "old school" players need to keep tight reign on the newer players until they can see for themselves why these protections are in place. I think alot of the reason some newer players don't listen is that they still are knee-jerk reactionary to any sort of authority figure.

2.) Sensless arguments, lack of sportsmanship.

I consider myself a hardcore recballer. I'd like to play tournies, sure, but as I'm on the west coast, travelling to them (as well as finding enough people to establish a team, and somewhere to play) is a great constraint on what I can and cannot do.

At our field (A large riverbed in someone's backyard), I have a posse of 10 and 12 y/o's with Tippmans. These are, as we say, noobs. I realize that I'm playing with KIDS that have started playing this year (maybe even that WEEK). Some of the tournie players that grace our humble field with their presence seem to forget this.

When a ten-year-old-boy using a rental gets shot in the neck by an Angel at 350FPS (In front of his mother, none the less) From ten feet away-- Everyone grinds to a halt. That is a PRIME example of SOMETHING YOU DO NOT DO. The shooter's excuse? "He's playing, he should expect it."

That is not sportsmanship. To my knowledge, the kid never came back, and hasn't played since. Our goal is to have people accept our sport, and get over the misconception that we're all steroid ridden, macho he-(wo)men out for blood. When a little boy runs off the field crying to his mother, the entire sport is set back.

When you argue over a bad call in a rec game (I admit, I made a bad call), and subsequently leave the field because you feel your team (Who was winning by a great margin) was "shafted", you're not being a good sport. Refs are human, so is the other team. Get over yourself, it isn't the end of the world. However, if points, status, and winning a tournament rested on this ONE call-- go for it. Yell, scream, and stamp your feet until you get your way. That's what competition is about, right? Yelling until other people roll over to your needs.

3.) A severe lack of brotherhood.

Do any of you posting in this thread think that you could play a game against anyone else in this thread, or talk to them at the field, without saying SOMETHING about how stupid they are (Assuming you disagree with them)?

My opinion is that what happens on the field, stays on the field. I took my friend on, one v one. He tagged me twice, two games. The second of the two he gave me a fat lip, a numb jaw, and now a scar. Did I avoid him at school, or storm off angrily? No. We went to get food together afterward, and still joke about it when he notices my scar.

Is that typical? No. I've seen much the same happen to people, and the person seemingly fouled storms off of the field in a cloud of explitives that would make Yosemite Sam blush. Is there a point to that? Has the person that tagged you mortally offended you to the point where you absolutely cannot live with yourself any longer, and are now going to find your dagger in order to commit seppuku?

It's a game. First and foremost, Paintball Is A Game. It's a hard game, a physically punishing game, one that will scar you..but it is a game.



(Wow, I actually posted..I feel so dirty.)

[Carbon]

Bump!

[go_go_thrash]

gtrsi about spending college tuition money on paintball gear, well i am trying out for the kent state paintball team and i needed something competetive on the tourny scene so i bought an 03 shocker, but isnt that part of my college experiance, i can still afford tuition, rent and food, albeit i dont eat much and i gave up buying beer for paintball, so i understand the concearn but at least the school buys us paint and air...

its 5:30 am and i have a test is my congress class...upp all night studying pardon my awful diction

[GT]

Originally posted by go_go_thrash
gtrsi about spending college tuition money on paintball gear, well i am trying out for the kent state paintball team and i needed something competetive on the tourny scene so i bought an 03 shocker, but isnt that part of my college experiance, i can still afford tuition, rent and food, albeit i dont eat much and i gave up buying beer for paintball, so i understand the concearn but at least the school buys us paint and air...

its 5:30 am and i have a test is my congress class...upp all night studying pardon my awful diction

I meant spending money that is otherwise for school. I started playing during my undergrad. I can remember many days of ramen for that case of paint. However school was first in my list of priorities as far as funding and time.


BTW if you guys are spending tuition money on paintball, please stop.

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
people shutup with the childish name callings.

the fact is fred is on the right track with enforcement. if a player cheats in the oylmpics or of baseball or whatever the player is the one who should ge in trouble not the whole team is my belief.

Baseball and the like are all team sports. Just like Paintball is a team sport. What goes for one person, goes for them all. By allowing only the player that cheated to be penalized, you enable the entire team to attempt to cheat... what's the worst that can happen? That one player gets in trouble. It's going to be a lot harder for players to cheat if they know their entire team is going to get shafted if they get caught.

And amen to everything Sarah said.