Skyball 7, just a "Heads up", and rant

[Tyger]

If this is better suited for another forum, go ahead and move it. I'm never good at putting posts in the right spot.

I got some info today about Skyball 7. If you haven't heard, it's changed owners again. Now it's run by "XO Industries" guy Aldo Perrone, you see. Not that it's bad, just a new owner.

And I've already seen the first big change. The price.
Entry fee, this year : Rookie is $850 US, $900 US Novice, Amateur $1000 US. That's the pre-reg "early bird" price, mind you. Consider that LAST year, it was Rookie $600, Novice $650, Amateur $700.

So right there, I'm wondering what could justify the price increase? So far there's no prize promises, or anything like that. So I'm more than a little concerned and skittish about spending money on this one. As of this moment, I am having a very hard time justifying going, based solely on the entry fee. Who knows what they'll charge for paint, if there's already a $200 hikeup on the entry fee?

I don't know. I haven't missed a Skyball. At this point, I'm not sure if the price justifys the event. They promise that they will "throw down the gloves and show you players how to rumble in the dome." PSP's World Cup entry fee is $600 if you pre-reg, for cryin' out loud. Can it really be worth $1000 to be shown how to rumble in the dome?

Perhaps I'm making a lot of hay over the cost of a tournament. But I see either a major flaw in the planning, or they're trying to get the players to pay for a really cool prize. And, so far, I don't see the latter.

Ok, I got that out of my system.

-Tyger

[Kaiser Bob]

Perhaps without having a major paintball company like Zap running the show that can defray the costs of the venue with its paint sales and boost in sales of product from simply having its name tacked to the event, we as the players will have to eat more of the cost to play in a major venue like the Skydome. I mean cmon, its the freakin Skydome! Not many people besides pro sports players, and maybe some wrestlers :) can say theyve played there.

[Tyger]

Lemme see...

Snowcross, a snowboard big air comp, motocross, and a few other sports have done it too.

Look, my problem is that this is the highest price EVER paid to play Skyball. I don't have the stuff from Skyball 1 in front of me, but I know it wasn't $1000 to play in the dome. And that was about as indi an event as you can get, the first time in the 'dome. The first event was run by Focus. Zap took it over later.

I'm just sick and tired of an "Extreme Sport" that saddles the burden of cost to the players. Snowboarding has comps, yes, but at those comps the riders are not expected to pay for the creation of chairlifts.

More proof that paintball is not an extreme sport. More like an "Extreme Hobby" played by "Extreme Enthusiasts" who take paintball more like a disco than a sport. We pay to entertain ourselves. Sorry, but that's really what I'm seeing this as. Paintball players are the cash cow, and we get gouged by events becasue of the implied prestige, and continue to pay more money for less.

I would like to see a write-in campaign to the event organisers to bring the price down, becasue lemme tell ya, for most of us $1000 is a LOT of money to blow on a weekend. The only thing that gets listened to is an outcry of anger. (And we can ALL think of one of those off the tops of our heads, right?)

Moo.

-Tyger

[shartley]

Have you contacted THEM and asked them what the reason for the increase was?

[Albinonewt]

Toronto tourism was killed by SARS, maybe this has something to do with that?

[Spaceman613]

Great way to get people backto Toronto... increase prices. I was looking to bring a team to the dome, but at those prices.... Heck, whats Mardis Gras cost?

Im with ya Tyger (which pains me to admit)... We will have to see the prize list. Maybe then we can justify the increase.

[Strider]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Toronto tourism was killed by SARS, maybe this has something to do with that?No, usually it's the opposite. Eveyones been giving killer deals on everything to bring people back... ($70 (CAD) for a season pass to wonderland! I wish I lived closer :D)

As for the prize pool, I'm all for keeping the same level. It's already good. But we do need to hear from the new owners...

[Duke Henry]

Maybe SKYDOME had a previous agreement with ZAP for an undetermined (or still outstanding) number of years for a specified price on rental.

Now with new owners, maybe SKYDOME jacked up their rent and now XO has to make up the difference.

I would zip off an email to the people in charge and find out.

I am glad I don't have to worry about paying for this type of stuff...lol

[MarkM]

Tyger just curious as to where you found those prices...I have been all over the site and so far no luck in finding a pricing structure even the press release for XO taking over is a misdirect url and in the rules section the phone# is a bunch of zeros although there is indeed a correct (??) number on the contact page

[Wc Keep]

id rather just hit up mardis gras if they arent going to specify the up in price.

[Muzikman]

Well...I can only guess, but I can say that Skyball has probably been a money loser in the years past. Might be the reason the event keeps changing hands and organizers. Back in '99 I met a chic in the Hard Rock that was one of the Jumbo Tron operators and she said that it costs $10,000 / hour to run the screen. So if just running the screen costs that much, how much does it cost to actually rent the stadium? If Zap would have made money the past two years, they would have kept the event, since they didn't, my guess is that the event is not much of a money maker, hense, the reason for the increase in entry fees.

[Webmaster]

My god... number 7? Seems like only yesterday I was playing with you at the first one... wow - time flys!

PS - where the HELL is Kennedy How?

[Strider]

Hey got the prices from an email from the new owners.

Question, are you sure those prices are the US amounts? They would be reasonable if he had maybe sent you the Canadian amounts...

[sime]

dammit man, i was just about to post that exact asame thing about the USD vs. CND......

i'm just glad it was pointed out, and it is a potential overlook

cheers

[SlartyBartFast]

If the prices are that rediculous, maybe it's time for a tournament under the roof of the Olympic Stadium in Montreal. :D

Who wants to be in on organising it?

PS: I would like to hear confirmation of the $CAD vs $US pricing.

[MarkM]

Originally posted by Webmaster
My god... number 7? Seems like only yesterday I was playing with you at the first one... wow - time flys!

PS - where the HELL is Kennedy How?

How do you think I feel? I did 1,2,3 and then a jump to 6 but then I reckon you will find those prices are in CDN not US as Tyger posted in the beginning...if that IS US prices then don't think it is going to be too busy this time around...costs to me personally are a mute point as to travel over an extra £30-50 isn't a huge leap for me as my hotel cost me more than my flight last year :eek: but for americans and canadians who have other tournaments to choose from it could make things a little quieter.

[Tyger]

No, those are the US prices.

I CALLED "XO" directly, and talked ot the event coordinator, Michelle. SHE TOLD ME those were prices in "US Dollars". The even went out of her way to tell me it was US DOllars. Heck, I'm happy enoug to play at the Dome, Jumbotron or not...

As to the why part, Shartley, When I talked to her I was a little shocked over it, so I didn't ask. I'm waiting to see a prize listing, to see if it's justified. I mean if they're giving a Hummer for first place, it's justified. If it's a few cases of paint, no.

Mark : 1.905.796.3573 That's their contact # at X.O. That's where I Called to get a human to ask questions to.

And Kennedy? I don't know, I haven't seen him in a while. Heh, make new stickers. "I knew Kennedy How" :)

-Tyger

[titan aresta]

I just got the skyball7 package in the mail today (came for Team PPIG) and yes those are the correct prices.

Rookie $850 US - $1165 CND
Novice $900 US - $1235 CND
Amature $1000 US - $1370 CND



Team Registration Pricing
Our pricing strategy has changed due to the new added features and different creations that XO has developed.

Pricies [sic] above are based on the currency exchange rate as of september 16/03. These figures are subject to change due to fluctuating exchange rates. If you require any further questions please contact XO at 905-796-3573 or email at [email protected]

The rest of the package is the usual "skyball7 will be the best yet" stuff, hotel info and pricing, flight and car rental info, contact info, and team registration form.

no news on prizes, and what they actualy hope to improve over the last skyball.

[LaW]

definately now out of my price range and will no longer be planning on attending this event. oh well

[Kaiser Bob]

eh 170 a person for rookie, a little steep, depending on paint prices i would still play. As long as its not 80 a case or something, that would be annoying.

[CDN_Drew]

Although this is info from a couple years ago I was told at the time by people connected to Zap that to rent the dome it was something around $ 25.000 cdn a day + extras like the jumbotron . Thats why there is a rush to get everything down right after the final game. If they don't have all the stuff out by midnight they charged an extra $ 25.000

[nerobro]

the paint IS $80 a case.

[chunk_daddy]

well i was planning on going, and still will, but im not sure about my team mates:(

[SeeK]

Originally posted by Webmaster
My god... number 7? Seems like only yesterday I was playing with you at the first one... wow - time flys!

PS - where the HELL is Kennedy How?

Maybe he's in the same area as Fred Schultz, but you can locate him through TACOM.

Should we put him on a carton of milk?

Tyger, I think the first couple were $500 USD.
If we run the numbers there were 200 teams at $650 that's $130K right there. One could estimate the other revenue figures from tickets, booths, video and paint sales.

Kendrick

[JLove]

Well, I have attended all six Skyball events. I even used to host the Skyball.com web site until they did not pay their bills. Now I own skyball.com and you can see for yourself what I posted there.

$1000 is just too much for this event. The prizes suck, they always have.

Everyone has selective amnesia each year about the fact that this event is also single-elimination. You have one bad game in the semis and you go home. That is one of the things that is so appealing about the super seven series. You get a round robin semi and final. Yes you shoot more paint, but nothing is more fair than that.

I for one am glad that Zap is going down the tubes. They should have taken some of that paint money and paid for better prizes. They had six years to fix it and they didn't. What they did to the WPF will never be forgiven by me. They put them out of business.

Even though the dome costs $30,000 a day, it is not impossible to run a great event there AND make money. The event promoters have ALWAYS done a crappy job helping the vendors with customs. If they could have figured that one out, then the trade show would not have suffered like it has. Its the same vendors every year, and most of them are a waste of time. Except AGD, of course.

Six years of that cold, boring city is enough for me. Next year I will probably go to Mardi Gras. Not because of the Skyball entry fee, but because without a prize package at this stage of the game, it is obvious that they are going to hold the vendors hostage for prizes again, which means that the prize package will suck. I hope I am wrong, but who wants to wait till the last minute to find out?

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by JLove
Six years of that cold, boring city is enough for me. Next year I will probably go to Mardi Gras.

Once again I'll ask. How about a new event in Montreal at the Olympic Stadium?

While it is cold during the winter months, Montreal is far from boring.

Rub a super seven type event under the roof. But, I think that there's still an issue with using the playing surface during the winter (roof problems, long story:p ). But the amount of space and size of rooms/areas around the playing surface is incredable.
You'd have no trouble hosting an enormous event with great locations for the vendors and staging areas.

[JLove]

Montreal is definitely a better city than Toronto. It is not that Toronto is bad, its just that when the event is lame, it is good to get away from the dome and have fun. There are a couple of decent night clubs and restaurants in Toronto, as well as an iMax theater, but most paintball players are not interested in that. I would be happy with a decent shopping mall.

If the prizes where great, the price came down, and they fixed the vendor situation, it would be a better event. I agree with the other poster that said that paintball in the dome is "an extreme hobby". This is a very true and sad fact, which is proven year after year by the fact that there are ZERO (and I do mean none) spectators that come to watch the Skyball event. At least with the Super 7, they are onto something by combining music and other attractions to make it more of a festival. Hell, the Amateur Open has even resorted to "festivalizing" the event with motorcycles, bmx, RC cars, etc. That is what Skyball needs to do in a hurry.

As I said before, they also need to lose the single-elimination format. Once you make the semis, they should be round-robin like the Super 7. That is a lot more fair than running it like a "march madness" basketball tournament. One bad game and you go home. That would not be bad if this was a little local event. But its not. It costs $800 plus per per player to attend. And I have regularly spent well over $1000 each year to play it.


I sent Aldo Perrone (the new promoter of Skyball7) an e-mail and asked him:

- When is Skyball7 going to commit to the prize list?
- What are the prizes going to be?
- Are they going to be prizes that you purchase, or are you going to try to negotiate them from the vendors?
- What are trade show booths going to cost?
- Why did the entry fee go up so much?
- With the entry going up, is the paint price coming down?
- Who is going to do the reffing?
- Who is going to do the scoring?
- Are the fields going to be ultimate air?

We will see if he responds. IF he does, I will post it. You guys should e-mail him as well and add some pressure. His e-mail address is [email protected].

[Fred]

just a thought, why not try for a new event, at the Pontiac Silver Dome (where the Detroit Lions used to play...)...

its frickin huge, and i think they're using the parking lot as a drive in movie theater right now...

After missing out due to my own lack of planning last year, i was really gonna try hard for it this year.. but that entry fee is just rediculous...

---Fred

[cheetah256]

my thoughts exactly fred! the silverdome is completely empty, but from what i've heard, they're going to bulldoze it.

[JLove]

Looks like a good staduim, but one nice thing about the Skydome is the built-in hotel. Watching games from your room is really neat.

[Duke Henry]

For those who haven't already seen this, preliminary skyball prizes are up.

I have to say, quite impressive!

http://www.skyball7.com/NewFiles/prizes.html

[manike]

Originally posted by Duke Henry
For those who haven't already seen this, preliminary skyball prizes are up.

I have to say, quite impressive!

http://www.skyball7.com/NewFiles/prizes.html

Huh? so if you win rookie or Amateur you get the same prizes? Bit strange. Good way to get the most sand baggers possible... :)

[fire1811]

Originally posted by manike


Huh? so if you win rookie or Amateur you get the same prizes? Bit strange. Good way to get the most sand baggers possible... :)

that is so true.
im sure they wont bother double checking teams from last year either.

skyball ppl called are captain and we asked about the price rise and she said that Skyball has NEVER made money.

we(BAM) havent decided if we are going to attend or not

[Duke Henry]

Originally posted by manike


Huh? so if you win rookie or Amateur you get the same prizes? Bit strange. Good way to get the most sand baggers possible... :)

I thought the same thing, then again that will mean that Novice will be nice and wide open when we play it!

I would also guess that when they add prizes, the majority would be to the higher divisions - but who knows?

[fire1811]

Originally posted by Duke Henry


I thought the same thing, then again that will mean that Novice will be nice and wide open when we play it!

nah cause you will has some AM teams sandin in the novice :p

[Duke Henry]

Originally posted by fire1811


nah cause you will has some AM teams sandin in the novice :p

Ahh man, you had to ruin my fun!!!

;)

[Crimson_Turkey]

Originally posted by JLove
Montreal is definitely a better city than Toronto. It is not that Toronto is bad, its just that when the event is lame, it is good to get away from the dome and have fun. There are a couple of decent night clubs and restaurants in Toronto, as well as an iMax theater, but most paintball players are not interested in that. I would be happy with a decent shopping mall.



Eaton centre on Queen and Yonge is a decent shopping centre. Once you know the city you know where to go for entertainment.

[yeahthatsme]

i'm guessing that once they get the company specific prizes the AM and NOV prizes will get better...

[Crimson_Turkey]

96 cases pf paint?!? Holy god!

[fire1811]

Originally posted by Crimson_Turkey
96 cases pf paint?!? Holy god!

yeah but what kind of paint??

brass eagle, pmi, zap ???

[Quickling]

1- WTF? do you pay more for each division yet get the same prize? Can we say lets play a lower division!

2- 96 cases of paint... so what. If you don't have a BYOP field to play at, you got 96 cases rotting in your closet.

3- Fred and Tyger, you guys playing together... or I should ask are you playing PUMP together?m Im curious because this event had they not jacked up the price might have seen up to 3+ pump teams.

Meph and Amhildreth where going to do teams until the price jump.

Ok 3 pump teams sounds silly, but there was only 1 last year, mayhps we are seeing a rise in number? I know after fondling Fred's sterling I had to have one... since buying one after castle I haven't touched my semi (before it was 50/50 pump semi). We just had 8 people semi-local do a NY pump day... I know this is off topic, but it was a little bit of hope I see :)

[Twon]

96 cases of a new brand of paint that XO is planning to release. As for the room on top of the dome, forget it, they were all rented by XO.

Twon

[Meph]

I recall Amhildreth as part of PPIG. I was part of team Pump Fiction. We were all about to register for Skyball6 when suddenly 2 players had to cop out (major problems) and cancelled our roadtrip.



I wanted to join up with some pump players this year but Jeebus. After I saw that price jump.... I honestly just can not justify it. I could barely get enough $$$ together for S6. Now I know I have no chance for S7!

[Crimson_Turkey]

say you sell 96 cases of paint for $15 a case on AO and you just got yourself $1440.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Quickling

3- Fred and Tyger, you guys playing together... or I should ask are you playing PUMP together?m Im curious because this event had they not jacked up the price might have seen up to 3+ pump teams.

I don't know. A part of me wants to keep the tradition alive, but I am having a hard time justifying the $200 jump in my mind for a list of promises, knowing it's just another airball tournament.

EDIT ADD : Another thing too, it's been the same old 'airball' bunkers too, I've played, basically, he sluff fields the last few years. Heck, 2002, the year I was in a cast, we played on a "boring" field, then they moved the Angel field in after we were done so the 'pros' could play on it. The more I think of it, the more I get annoyed that we haven't seen, say, the JT Piramid, or any other "unique" fields out there. The most inresting was 2001 "ZAP" in the middle of the court. It was annoying to play around, but at least it was intresting. Not the same old "Rods and cones".

NOW, if they had an open speedball court, I'd do it. I can justify that. If they had more than just the same vendors, I could do that too. But, right now, I'm having a hard time swallowing a few things.

By the rules, PPIG may be an AM team. We don't sandbag. So we'd have to pay $1000. Unless we can qualify as Rookies, citing that we've never finished in the money of any event, and all of us combined never did either. And there's nothing to an advantage togoing to Skyball over MArdi Gras, other than it's in the Skydome. We don't get spectators, TV coverage, local media, or in fact ANYONE to look in on us.

**sigh** I'm feeling bleak.

So, to answer, no clue yet. PPIG is still "jury is out" mode.

-Tyger

[Fred]

And, for the... 4th year in a row... Fred is copping out to go skiing instead... but this year its because a 8-9 day ski trip to Utah will end up being cheaper than a weekend trip to this event...

I've also tentatively retired from playing paintball until I graduate in 6 months anyway... after i get a job i'll be back in full force! (don't tell a soul, but... I'm planning on buying a semi-auto again! :eek: )

---Fred

[astroboy]

little tidbits

Aldo Perrone was the original Brass Eagle/ Zap owner... so hopefully his company will be able to run Skyball well... yes even back then BE wasn't the greatest but it allowed part time workers like me at the time to buy paintball guns because it was cheaper priced than the others...

Toronto is a very nice city and very comparable to Montreal (better overall imho)... I've lived in both. Montreal is nicer in the summer because of the outdoor cafes/atmosphere but in the winter it's like a frozen hell...

Toronto has great night clubs; there's restaurants and theaters and shopping and everything else. You just need to hook up with the locals who can show you around. Of course when you're only there for two days and you can't stay out late (unfortunately malls and the majority of shopping on weekends close at 6pm on Saturday and 5pm on Sunday) on the first night and may have to leave on the second day, you're going to be limited to what you can experience.

There's awesome family fun AND adult oriented fun! :P

[fire1811]

Originally posted by astroboy
little tidbits
Toronto is a very nice city......

Of course when you're only there for two days and you can't stay out late


i actually really like toronto. compared to ANY US city i have seen Toronto is spotless. I dont think i saw one piece of garbage on the street there. its very clean.


and who says we cant stay out late. i think i averaged about an hour of sleep last year lol

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by astroboy
Toronto is a very nice city and very comparable to Montreal (better overall imho)... I've lived in both. Montreal is nicer in the summer because of the outdoor cafes/atmosphere but in the winter it's like a frozen hell...

Now you're getting personal. :P I live in Montreal, my brother lives in Toronto. With all the underground, indoor shopping centers in Montreal, who needs to go outside in the winter? And if you hink it's a frozen hell, it's just because you don't enjoy skiiing.

I lived in Toronto for 6 weeks and found it simply be a wasteland. Square1 and the Playdium were cool, but I found it difficult to locate any other activities. Round the Skydome/CN Tower nothing but over priced restaurants until you started walking up Younge St. and then there were fewer bars and clubs than are packed onto Crescent St. in Montreal. But I'll admit I was at the disadvantage of living in an Airport Hotel for that time.


Originally posted by astroboy
There's awesome family fun AND adult oriented fun!

On that point you really can't conpare the two. When it comes to ADULT entertainment, no-one can beat Montreal. :D

Great clubs, beautiful women, and if you're the type to pay to watch women dance, Montreal dancers go further. :p

[coolcatpete]

I have a few questins ok here i go is this a 10 man or 5 man? Is that price per team or person? IS there a website? What is tha date? IS it worth going?

[fire1811]

Originally posted by coolcatpete
I have a few questins ok here i go is this a 10 man or 5 man? Is that price per team or person? IS there a website? What is tha date? IS it worth going?

its a 5 man
price is for a 5 man team
web site is www.skyball7.com
is it worth it...well thats what we are debating here

[Meph]

Tyger, as mentioned over at PPIG, I'll have to do some diggin and idear ponderin. About who to snag for sponsorship and even if there could be some type of fundraiser held to gather funds for the trip. Since I'm sure just the hotel rooms alone are going to be the death of my wallet!

It isn't totally out of the question for me just yet, though close. I might be a possible pump arm in the roster for PPIG.

[JLove]

I am not sure why no one else mentioned this... but the prize money for Skyball this year is in CANADIAN dollars. That means that the $5000 first prize is actually like $3750 US.

I agree on the paint. Who cares about paint. You certainly can't fly it home with you.

Keep your paint, keep your rings, and give me cash and free guns. GOOD guns. Not the cheap plastic guns that my team got for third place up there.

I will NOT be going back. Six years of BS is enough for me.