Issues with AGD Pride

[NewMag]

Last week(sept 28th) AGD Pride factory team attended the 5-man Big Money tournament at Stalker Paintball in Wisconsin.

I was there as a spectator.

The issue here is the integrity of the players on AGD Pride

It was an incident that ocurred during one game. An AGD player, can't remember his name(was using an AMG, and no i didn't mispell MAG) was playing the dorito next to the net that separated the small crowd from the playing field.

There was a large paint mark on the players mask and this drew some negative comments from the crowd directed at the refs as far as paintchecks go and whatnot. The paintmark is not the issue in question though. I wasn't a ref and understand that it's their fault they didn't pull him out weather he was actually hit or not.

The issue i have is when another comment was shouted from the person I was standing next to. The AGD player deliberately turned his attention away from the game, and fired a good 4 times directly at the crowd.

this is UNACCEPTABLE behavior in any context!!

It doesn't matter what the person said, The AGD player loosing his cool like he did is completely crass, tasteless, and only proves how much of a child he is. I SERIOUSLY urge AGD and it's sponsored teams to look further into this and deal with it accordingly.

This player was confronted by the Draxxus(who also sponsors AGD Pride) representative who said "remember the jersey your wearing", and got the response "I don't care. I don't play for THEM" from the AGD player.

Is this the sort of team that represents the company that uses it's integrity as a major selling point?

[TSalPaintball]

AGD Pride using AMG, I think not. I think you got it confused with a E mag. The battery pack looks like and AMG's fore grip, bu still it is not acceptable! Does anyone else know of it?

[NewMag]

The he was using co2 on his x-mag. It was very clearly an amg.

the rest of them were using x/e mags though

[magman007]

Wow, i really dont think this could have been any one of the agd pride guys. I have met them all, and not one of them would ever act like this. Unless it was a sub(and why would agd sub a person who used a spyder any ways).

None of the AGD players would ever act like this,and if they did, they would loose my respect right now. None of the pride guys would ever do this.

I really would like you to recheck your facts.

[TSalPaintball]

Hmmmmm, very interesting, was he the tallest on the team?

[NewMag]

My facts are straight. UNless another team assaulted AGD pride on their way to the tourney and took their jerseys. It WAS them.

"Wow, i really dont think this could have been any one of the agd pride guys. I have met them all, and not one of them would ever act like this"

That's why everyone there was so incredulous. We all thought AGD pride would be the last to do something like that as well.

"how could he have been running co2 on his x-mag, thats not possible."

That was just an offand comment to prove he was using an AMG and NOT an X-mag.


and no we wasn't the tallest.

[NewMag]

http://www.stalkerpaintball.com/photos/tournaments/2003/big_money/images/agd.JPG

This is a photo of them just after the tourney.

I'm terrible with faces. But I'm thinking it was he on the FAr left, though it might also be the one on the far right.

I'm judging mostly by build cause the guy who exploded was of a sturdy build not, chunky like me lol but bigger than the others.

[magman007]

Why in hells name would any one from pride be using a spyder? i know each one of them has a backup mag, and of course, they have their xmags

[NewMag]

I don't know why or how, but it's hardly relavent. He could have shot the crowd with a blade.

[cphilip]

The comment he made "I don't play for them" and the marker are tell tale signs. Pride members, did you have someone filling in on the team last week? And is this observation correct?

[Muzikman]

Who is the guy on the right?

[NewMag]

do they all have the same kind of masks? the one I saw was wearing Raven.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I'm sorry to tell you, dude...and I don't mean to burst your innocence bubble...but that's not a big deal...it happens at just about every tourney I've ever been to. People cheat...people are jerks...and you know what...it's never going to go away no matter how bad it hurts your feelings. Sorry, you either have to learn to live with it or go play rec-ball for the rest of your life...

[Kaiser Bob]

Raven mask, AMG? It sounds like a Kingman spy set to defame the pride guys! :)

Seriously though, AMG on CO2? really dosent add up...

[NewMag]

I wasn't born yesterday for christ's sake. I know it happens. I'm irritated because someone wearing AGD's logo would do it. I'm wondering if there's any kind of screening involded when AGD sponsors someone, or if they just look at a teams win record and say "ok whatever"

The sarcasm isn't nescessary.

edit: enad there's nothing wrong with rec ball dangit! :)

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by NewMag
I wasn't born yesterday for christ's sake. I know it happens. I'm irritated because someone wearing AGD's logo would do it. I'm wondering if there's any kind of screening involded when AGD sponsors someone, or if they just look at a teams win record and say "ok whatever"

The sarcasm isn't nescessary.

edit: enad there's nothing wrong with rec ball dangit! :)

Actually it is..I've seen people sporting Smart Parts, Dye, JT, Draxxus, WoRR, WDP and many others cheating and just being jerks...like I said...you think it's anything new?

[G-Rock]

Look NewMag has a point. It shouldn't have happened.

In defense of the player, and I do this lightly, sometimes you play, and in the heat of the moment with spectators aggrevating you, stuff happens, words slip, gestures are made, it happens, but under no circumstances should you turn your marker at a spectator and shot at them.

Now on to the fact he was on AGD pride. Sounds like a guy was filling in for them. It happens alot. You have an obligation to fulfill and players on the team have issues and can't make it, so you take an extra jersey and put it on some poor schmuck that plays. If that person makes an arse of themself, never use them again.

chris geiger

[NewMag]

Dude, I know, realize, and undertand that people being jerks and such are NOTHING new.

Those poeple sporting other jerseys with other logos, can cheat and whine all they want. AGD prides(no pun) itself on it's integrity, yet I see a team representing them do something as stupid and rash as firing on spectators. All it's acomplishing is perpetuating the bad name our sport already has with the public, I would like to see AGD be NOT responsible for corrupting any newb's with false images of what good tourney ball is like.

[magman007]

well, i certqainly do not recognize the person ofn the far right, the one on the left, is timmy. Timmy would never ever do a thing like that.


Saying the person on the far right isnt wearing any thing like the other pride members (pants hat etc) i would assuime he is the culprit

[TSalPaintball]

Timmy wouldnt do something like that

[skirts]

ok... ill take this one

the player in question does not play for AGD pride... he is one of my buddies that was taking my place for the 5-man tournament... the player used to play for bad company and explains the raven mask and the spyder...

to comment on how he acted on the field... all i can say is that he knows what he did wrong. to bring up another side of this let me say that players on the sidelines are not allowed to make comments onto the field... the player that was having a problem with the "non hit" was actually a player from a rival team that was dissapointed in their standing in the tournament.

i hope all of you understand that when you are out playing... emotions are on high... we have all sworn to ourselves when we got shot or we all want to just scream when a gun goes down or a move doesnt work... the player we are talking about plays a very competitive game that most will never experience - PRO paintball

i hope whoever was effected by this event will accept my apology and look at how they might have reacted in the same situation remembering that on the field, instinct sets in.

i hope this clears up some confusions and questions and i would like to say that AGD Pride has tried very hard to uphold a good image in both our on-field and off-field tactics...

if you would like to discuss this further then i would encourage you to contact me personally via email at [email protected]

skirts
AGD factory team Pride

[shartley]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
I'm sorry to tell you, dude...and I don't mean to burst your innocence bubble...but that's not a big deal...it happens at just about every tourney I've ever been to. People cheat...people are jerks...and you know what...it's never going to go away no matter how bad it hurts your feelings. Sorry, you either have to learn to live with it or go play rec-ball for the rest of your life...
DB this took me by surprise. To say that if an AGD Factory Team member (or someone filling in for them) acts in a way that reflects poorly on AGD it is okay because “it happens at just about every tourney”… wow.

I say it is unacceptable. What other teams do is the responsibility of their members and their sponsors… but AGD Pride is an AGD Team and thus an AO team as well since they are linked by a common manufacturer. This is not a case of someone coming to a random paintball forum and complaining about random cheating and bad behavior by a random paintball team…. It is an AO member coming to a forum owned and operated by AGD, and expressing their concern about an AGD Sponsored Team. To me there is a huge difference.

This person was also a spectator, not a player.

And it does not matter what every other team does.. in my opinion. I could care less about what the other jerseys have on them. This was not an issue about them. And I am simply shocked that a member of AO would do boldly pass off such behavior just because some other team sponsored by some other company may act in a similar manner. I (as well as obviously others) thought the AGD teams were above that.

And the rec ball comment… LOL Yeah, because we all know that rec ball takes so much less skill to play, and no rec ball players have real “skills”. ;) Not to mention that we all know that there is no cheating in Rec Ball, nor bad attitudes, right? So what was your point exactly? ;)


Originally posted by G-Rock
Now on to the fact he was on AGD pride. Sounds like a guy was filling in for them. It happens alot. You have an obligation to fulfill and players on the team have issues and can't make it, so you take an extra jersey and put it on some poor schmuck that plays. If that person makes an arse of themself, never use them again.

chris geiger
I say if the team members can’t make it, the team does not play. This way you reduce the liability. And replacement or not, the Sponsor is still being represented by their actions...... good AND bad. When they WIN the distinction is not made.... so why when it is something bad?

Simply put, the general public don't make that distinction either.

[NewMag]

ok, well it's settled then. I gots nothin but love for AGD and that's why I was so upset. Thanks for clearing it up. I'll start passing word on that it was a sub, cause there are a few others that were flusterd by the behavior.

And you're right. Team Riven(the rival team spoken of) IS a bunch of whiny lamers.lol

[NewMag]

yes it was hurting me, and I don't see how expressing concern qualifies as whining.

[the JoKeR]

Glad to hear it at least wasn't one of the 'regulars'. I've played rec ball with most of these guys many times over the past few years, and can't remember one single instance where anything 'underhanded' went down. My only complaint is that I'm typically stuck on the other team ducking their paint...

[skirts]

thankyou shartley for your concern about how the team operates...

may i saw however that "if a team cannot put together the full amount of players that they shouldnt play" is an opinion of someone that does not play alot of tournament paintball (or play at all for that matter)

i am not going to slam you (heaven only knows that you have been abused enough on these forums) however i have to disagree with your statment... that may be only my opinion however i do agree with you alot of the time.

i, like many others, want to play paintball as often as i can. i also understand that there are things in peoples lives that do not allow them to play. if teams did not "pick up" players and try them out then how would any team ever be formed... it is possible that we were trying out a player who had not played in a couple years to see if he would be a valuable assett to our team (i.e. pro experience)

again thankyou for your input and the careful thought which you put into your response... also thankyou for your concern with such a great company like AGD... (we need the "honest" family oriented voice that you bring to the forums)

sincerely
daniel "skirts" holms

p.s. i know i cant spell... i dont have time to learn ;)

[cphilip]

Originally posted by skirts
to comment on how he acted on the field... all i can say is that he knows what he did wrong. to bring up another side of this let me say that players on the sidelines are not allowed to make comments onto the field... the player that was having a problem with the "non hit" was actually a player from a rival team that was dissapointed in their standing in the tournament.

...i hope whoever was effected by this event will accept my apology and look at how they might have reacted in the same situation remembering that on the field, instinct sets in.

i hope this clears up some confusions and questions and i would like to say that AGD Pride has tried very hard to uphold a good image in both our on-field and off-field tactics...

if you would like to discuss this further then i would encourage you to contact me personally via email at [email protected]

skirts
AGD factory team Pride


Well that sums it up. Nice job Skirts. I think that pretty much clears up what happened and its evident that all involved wish it had not. Also lets hear why we have players from other teams in the stands taunting players out on the field. Does that sound like good sportsmanship? Should that be overlooked? Not that it should result in retaliation but that needs to be delt with as well. If you lose and are in the stands watching.... and don't have anything nice to say.... shut the hell up.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by shartley

What other teams do is the responsibility of their members and their sponsors… but AGD Pride is an AGD Team and thus an AO team as well since they are linked by a common manufacturer.


And it does not matter what every other team does.. in my opinion. I could care less about what the other jerseys have on them. This was not an issue about them. And I am simply shocked that a member of AO would do boldly pass off such behavior just because some other team sponsored by some other company may act in a similar manner. I (as well as obviously others) thought the AGD teams were above that.




I say if the team members can’t make it, the team does not play.


Well,
First off,these are kids (mostly younger people)playing a game,they are not bestowed with some supernatural character based on a AGD jersey and it's not fair to expect such.Paintball is an emotional game and certain reactions are unavoidable if your trying to perform at your best,under pressure you don't always use the best jugdement.Obviously what he did was wrong but I totally agree with Dirty as it's not a huge deal.

As far as playing or not, What planet do you live on? You do what ever it takes to field your team if it means grabbing some newb off the sidelines.Sponsers PAY TO HAVE THIER JERSEYS ON THE FIELD not on the bus.If that's not clear to you then we have completly different views on playing Tourny ball.

Jay.

[shartley]

Originally posted by skirts
thankyou shartley for your concern about how the team operates...

may i saw however that "if a team cannot put together the full amount of players that they shouldnt play" is an opinion of someone that does not play alot of tournament paintball (or play at all for that matter)

i am not going to slam you (heaven only knows that you have been abused enough on these forums) however i have to disagree with your statment... that may be only my opinion however i do agree with you alot of the time.

i, like many others, want to play paintball as often as i can. i also understand that there are things in peoples lives that do not allow them to play. if teams did not "pick up" players and try them out then how would any team ever be formed... it is possible that we were trying out a player who had not played in a couple years to see if he would be a valuable assett to our team (i.e. pro experience)

again thankyou for your input and the careful thought which you put into your response... also thankyou for your concern with such a great company like AGD... (we need the "honest" family oriented voice that you bring to the forums)

sincerely
daniel "skirts" holms

p.s. i know i cant spell... i dont have time to learn ;)
First let me say that when I was writing my post, you had not yet posted… it may give a little different feel to it.

You are correct, I don’t play tournament paintball… but I honestly don’t see how that is relevant to my statement. I was only expressing an opinion that would prevent this very situation from happening. I also understand your point about trying out a player, but wouldn’t that be best done at a private, or off-tournament situation?

I respectfully disagree that the only way to form teams is by slowly infiltrating new players into existing teams. I know too many teams that simply formed, had tryouts, or recruited from existing teams…. None of these methods involve testing under fire while representing the team’s sponsors in an actual tournament.

These are all personal opinions however, and they are not meant to draw flames or for folks to even try to argue them. Thank you for understanding and stating your opinions (even if not the same as mine) in a calm and respectful manner. I truly appreciated it.

Originally posted by RRfireblade
Well,
First off,these are kids (mostly younger people)playing a game,they are not bestowed with some supernatural character based on a AGD jersey and it's not fair to expect such.Paintball is an emotional game and certain reactions are unavoidable if your trying to perform at your best,under pressure you don't always use the best jugdement.Obviously what he did was wrong but I totally agree with Dirty as it's not a huge deal.

As far as playing or not, What planet do you live on? You do what ever it takes to field your team if it means grabbing some newb off the sidelines.Sponsers PAY TO HAVE THIER JERSEYS ON THE FIELD not on the bus.If that's not clear to you then we have completly different views on playing Tourny ball.

Jay.
We disagree on some points, and that is fine. But I live on the same planet you do. We just have different views on things.

Sponsors also pay to have their companies represented in a positive light.. at least they should. It is not just about being seen…. It is HOW you are being seen.

Also, I fully understand the pressures of ANY sport, be it paintball or whatever. And when folks play tournament ball, they are stepping up to the plate. The are saying they are ready for the next level. And this should include sportsmanship as well. I don’t expect every player to make the correct choice all the time. I don’t expect every player to act with full control and grace when put on the spot, each and every time. But that is a far cry from just passing off bad behavior as “just part of the game”, or “everyone does it”.

It is the setting of standards, and the striving to reach them and maintain them that sets athletes apart. It is also what sets TEAMS apart. And it is what sets Sponsors apart as well. And all of that is what set the AGD Factory Teams apart.

So, yes, I think we have a different view on playing Tourney Ball. But it is not because of any ignorance on my end, or that I live on a different planet. ;) It’s all good… we just disagree.

[raehl]

I've been playing paintball for almost 10 years. I have never, ever, gotten into it with an opponent, official, spectator, or teammate. And I am also not given supernatural powers.

I also run a league where 98% of the players behave well all of the time.

The old paintball "but they're kids, it's a tough game, it's adrenaline", whatever, is bull****. It's an excuse, and it's a lie, because I know I can behave myself, and I know that I have a few hundred players in my league who can behave themselves - despite all being kids. (Not to say there are not a few who can't, but they quickly learn to cut it out.) And skirts has played NCPA ball, so he should know this.

Let's see some personal responsibility for a change. If someone is shooting a tthe crowd, it's because THEY are immature, period. I'd hope the team would simply not invite that player out to play with them again. It was poor form, period.


- Chris

[skirts]

may i also add that the player who this issue is concerning will not be playing with us at world cup... it was under consideration but will not be happening...

i hope everyone sees that this is our way of preventing negativity from taking over what i would like to consider a very positive team and marketing tool for AGD

chester and chance from the AGD lions/kids will be our #9 and #10 players for 10-man novice in orlando...

we hope anyone that can make it will come out and cheer us on...

peace
skirts

[GT]

Shartly,
good lord can we bring down the verberage in your posts. its like a book in every thread. I dont think its wrong to pick a guy up last minute. Tourney ball is pricey and when you have to play, or your team, put someone in!





Originally posted by raehl
Let's see some personal responsibility for a change. If someone is shooting a tthe crowd, it's because THEY are immature, period. I'd hope the team would simply not invite that player out to play with them again. It was poor form, period.


- Chris

I hear ya Chris. Seems simple enough to me to pull the guy for safety, err insurance & liability, and send him home packing.

jb

[cphilip]

Originally posted by raehl
...And skirts has played NCPA ball, so he should know this.

Let's see some personal responsibility for a change. If someone is shooting a the crowd, it's because THEY are immature, period. I'd hope the team would simply not invite that player out to play with them again. It was poor form, period.


- Chris

I certainly know he does Chris. He is speaking for the team and, in this instance, he is not directly speaking for the member that played "fill in" and was responsible for blowing his cool that day. Because he cannot speak for that person. However he is trying to speak for the team itself and its position. No one is condoning this at all. Well perhaps certain AO members will but you see you have to seperate that from the people who are directly involved and what they say and do. Not everyone that has a comment.

And Skirts and the other team members are dealing with a member that played that day on the team that reflected back on them negatively in a moment of anger (justified or not). So they must keep responses fairly general in that respect.

And I am certain it will be properly delt with. And I am certain the other regular members of the team agree with that way of handling it. As in everything, some personnel matters are kept private. As much as you might like to have them shared it's only fair to do that. The future situation and affiliation with this particular person will be kept private. This is not subject to public mud-raking. Sorry but not all things are public. No matter how it looks to keep them private sometimes people have to do some things in private when it comes to personnel matters. Certain things will be always be delt with privately. But rest assured they will be delt with. I do know that. Sorry I cannot give you more. You just have to trust sometimes.

[Lord_Whoopass]

Hey I would just like to say that I have played against AGD players a couple times(Pride and Kids)... A couple last winter at BFG and most recently against Skirts in Marquette... They all have great attitudes on and off the field... And yes I would like to add that teams do have people fill in... LOL I just did it this weekend... Me and my front man needed another guy so we picked up a friend from school who plays for Insolence... If you went to marquette you would know who I am talking about... He had shorts on w/ long socks and looked alot like a Rodeo clown...

lol And on another note... you should have picked me up for the 5-man...:D hehe but I dont play front so I couldnt have filled in for you skirts... And great job on all your wins recently...

[raehl]

I'm not talking to/about Skirts or really even about this particular incident, I'm just railing on the oft-touted "Paintball is an aggressive sport and its understanable if people go over the edge" excuse. It's bollucks. Thread is just an opportunity to reiterate that point.

- Chris

[Big_Chops]

awwwwwwww skirts beat be to it. i was going to explain who rob was and that he is not part of the team and so on. once i heard of this i knew it wasn't one of teh guys on pride because i know them all except for skirts and they are very well mannered and wouldn't do somthing like that

[cphilip]

Originally posted by raehl
I'm not talking to/about Skirts or really even about this particular incident, I'm just railing on the oft-touted "Paintball is an aggressive sport and its understanable if people go over the edge" excuse. It's bollucks. Thread is just an opportunity to reiterate that point.

- Chris

Understood Chris and good time to air it out! True dat is all of it.... ;)

[Halliday]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
I'm sorry to tell you, dude...and I don't mean to burst your innocence bubble...but that's not a big deal...it happens at just about every tourney I've ever been to. People cheat...people are jerks...and you know what...it's never going to go away no matter how bad it hurts your feelings. Sorry, you either have to learn to live with it or go play rec-ball for the rest of your life...

How sad. That gives me the impression that the tourney scene is bad and you just have to conform to the cheaters and not make the situation better.

That is the kind of attitude that will keep paintball a fringe / "extreme" / non-televised sport.

:(

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by cphilip


No one is condoning this at all. Well perhaps certain AO members will but you see you have to seperate that from the people who are directly involved and what they say and do.

I don't think anyone's condoning it either,at least I know I don't.I personally just think that it's not like a major incident.It's not going to degrade the image AGD or Pride in any way.It was just one of the many stupid behavors that you see at most Tournys,and your not really able to do anything about and doesn't really effect the overall game.

[1stdeadeye]

Hey look at the brightside of this. At least Skirts didn't play sick and then go hide in the woods and snipe at opponents with a black x-mag!:eek:

What I will say though is Public Praise...Private Criticism. It sounds like Skirts knows whats what. You don't execute a person in public. It will ruin your relationship with them. I am sure in private, the offender was lambasted and dismissed. Just for the sake of courtesy, you can not do such a thing in public if you have an ounce of class!

[skirts]

probably not the time or place for this but...

i wanted to show off the new evil t-shirt that i won at the 3-man in marquette this past weekend... (since someone mentioned cheating and tournaments)

;)
skirts

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by Halliday


How sad. That gives me the impression that the tourney scene is bad and you just have to conform to the cheaters and not make the situation better.

That is the kind of attitude that will keep paintball a fringe / "extreme" / non-televised sport.

:(

I never said I condoned the behavior because I don't and I myself have never wiped. I just stated that it happens. Go watch the Traumahead 2003 LA Open Video...then you'll know what I mean...