whats the lastest on the smartparts situation?

[FeuerFri]

just curious as to what all has been going on with that exactly. wasn't the deal between them and agd sapposed to start today?

[dinger]

uhhh i dont recall ever seeing anything about SP vs. AGD...


BUT

i do know that the SP vs. ICD trial was on friday, and i havn't heard anything about it... werd :o

[WARPED1]

It's over pretty much, ICD caved, as they should have.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by FeuerFri
just curious as to what all has been going on with that exactly. wasn't the deal between them and agd sapposed to start today?

uuumm..just for clarification purposes...what are you talking about?

[dinger]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
...what are you talking about?

[dcmander]

I know that Powerlyte is holding their ISIS release until after they know whats going on with the industry and that PISSES ME OFF!

[FeuerFri]

i thougt sp was going after agd cause of the x-mag/e-mag stuff with the on/off button stuff too? i thougt i read that they were doing something on october fifth but i guess i was mistaken.

[OfficerGoat]

I wouldnt think tom would confirm or deny any roumors untill he had all his poop in a group.I'd say don't freak on it untill the dust settles and we see where things turn out.

[LaW]

the date in question was going to be the court date for the sp vs icd i believe....

I think you just got some information mixed up ;)

[WARPED1]

There isn't going to be a court session, because ICD settled out of court a week or so ago. Do you guys not read press releases? So, it's pretty much over, SP was only activly going after ICD. Other manufacturers settled out of court before SP filed suits against them. Whether they would've or not, who knows? Now everyone needs to let it drop as its mostly over. I don't forsee any more suits because any smart manufacturer will settle. Whether its right or not they got the patent doesn't matter. They got it, by the letter of the law, they are well within thier rights to do what they did. Simple, and don't be a little b***h and flame me, I'm entitled to my opinion, you're entitled to yours. SP forever! And that's all I have to say about that.

[Dr David Banner]

>>>So, it's pretty much over, SP was only activly going after ICD.

Hahaha...tell that to WDP.

[Kevmaster]

many many companies have recieved notices telling them to cease making the e-markers. I doubt its over....

[Marek]

Any word on Kingman or BE? I really wonder what they are going to do.

[WARPED1]

Point is, no suits have been filed. SP has graciously given the other companies to settle out of court.

[GT]

Originally posted by Marek
Any word on Kingman or BE? I really wonder what they are going to do.

I think both of those companies are going to throw the bird in sp's way. However I have a feeling that sp will have them sign some agreement where little to no monies are exchanged.

I guess we will see.

[Evil Bob]

Its far from being "over", ICD was the first stepping stone, SP will be going after every company that manufactures an electronic marker.

-Evil Bob

[WARPED1]

Not if they're smart and sign out of court, like NPS and DYE, and now ICD.

[Smoke]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Point is, no suits have been filed. SP has graciously given the other companies to settle out of court.

If SP is so "gracious", then why did they start this whole thing in the first place?

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by automagfreek


If SP is so "gracious", then why did they start this whole thing in the first place? Because it's thier right as a free enterprise company in the US. If you don't like it, move to a communist nation, like China or Cuba(where everyone gets benefits and money whether they work or not!). You don't have to agree with what they did, just that from a business point of view, they were right to do so.

[spantol]

You know, every defense of Smart Parts I've ever seen has boiled down to some form of Warped1's glib "If you don't like it, move to China." Always something like "They did it, it's over, move on." I've never once seen someone argue that the patent had any intrinsic merit, or that it was obtained in anything remotely approaching an honest manner.

Would you like to take a swing at that, Warped1, or are you content to leave it at "It's a free country?"

[bryceeden]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Point is, no suits have been filed. SP has graciously given the other companies to settle out of court.
SP will not stop untill they have destroyed the electronic marker. They are very power-hungry bunch of morons who will do anything (including lie to thier distrubuters-meaning me-)to get as much time as possible to pull this &%@* patent off.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by spantol
You know, every defense of Smart Parts I've ever seen has boiled down to some form of Warped1's glib "If you don't like it, move to China." Always something like "They did it, it's over, move on." I've never once seen someone argue that the patent had any intrinsic merit, or that it was obtained in anything remotely approaching an honest manner.

Would you like to take a swing at that, Warped1, or are you content to leave it at "It's a free country?" Like I said, theres nothing you can do. The law is simple, they were smart enough to grab the patent before anyone else did. Was it the right thing to do? Maybe not, all I'm saying is you have to live with it, you don't have to like it. Boycotting SP will do nothing, because the "pros" will not give up thier electros, even if they decide to not shoot SP guns fine. They go and buy a brand new Intimidator, which puts money in SP's pocket is all I'm saying. The only way to do anything, is to lobby lawmakers and get the Patent laws changed and such. Again, it's America, a land of free enterprise, which SP jumped on first. I'm surprised no one else did. It doesn't matter who invented it first, it matters who got the patent first. Therefore, theres no use crying over it. And like I've said, you don't have to like it at all. Was it right for SP to do? From strictly a business standpoint yes. From trying to pull pb world together as a community, probably not, they've done more harm than good there.

[shartley]

Originally posted by bryceeden

SP will not stop untill they have destroyed the electronic marker. They are very power-hungry bunch of morons who will do anything (including lie to thier distrubuters-meaning me-)to get as much time as possible to pull this &%@* patent off.
Destroy the electronic marker? How have they done that?

While folks may not agree with the business tactics they used, they are legal. And while this may not sit well with some, it is far from destroying electronic markers, or the paintball industry, as some have claimed in the past.

I have still not seen any of the drastic scenarios that were foretold concerning this. I have yet to see a single company forced out of business, as was forecast concerning this. I have yet to see huge increases in marker prices caused by this, as was (and still is) being warned about.

To me it all boils down to what people want to think, and feel. This of course does not take into account that if SP were to actually force companies out of business, or stop them from producing their markers, it would cost THEM the money they are aiming to collect from the enforcement of their patent (rightfully gained or not). Each move they have made was calculated and has not caused the devastation anti-SP folks have been screaming about.

I am not justifying SP’s tactics, nor supporting them in any way…. only showing that the sky has not fallen.

And how has SP lied to you? That is a serious claim, and I for one would be interested in knowing exactly what you are talking about. It is not good to lie to either your customers or your distributors.

[WARPED1]

Amen shartley. I swear by my Shocker 4x4. I may get an 03, as I get them at a discount for being a www.shockerowners.com member. All members thier get that discount, not just us mods. Ultimate package for ~$925? Good deal!

[Gadget]

It's a real shame that a company with a dodgy reputation and a questionable patent is able to get in this position simply because no-one is willing to put their own companies future (and money!) on the line and challenge this in court.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with WDP - they're just as aggressive as Smart Parts and I just can't see them rolling over in the meek way that the other companies have.

[personman]

Originally posted by shartley

Destroy the electronic marker? How have they done that?
Sam, you made a mistake in reading his post. He said that smart parts will not stop UNTIL they destroy the electric marker.. just pointing that out.

I personally believe smart parts' actions are selfish. Sure, while it may be a good tactic to use to stay large in an industry, a monopoly is not the best way. I think they would get more money if they actually did some R&D to make a gun that was WORTH BUYING unstead of eliminating all choices, forcing everyone who wants a nice short crisp trigger to buy an impy or a shocker. But then again, there will be other companys who gave into smart parts, to try to save them self, but their prices will most likely be higher than smart parts.

[BajaBoy]

Originally posted by Gadget
It'll be interesting to see what happens with WDP - they're just as aggressive as Smart Parts and I just can't see them rolling over in the meek way that the other companies have.


GO WDP!

[shartley]

Originally posted by Gadget
It's a real shame that a company with a dodgy reputation and a questionable patent is able to get in this position simply because no-one is willing to put their own companies future (and money!) on the line and challenge this in court.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with WDP - they're just as aggressive as Smart Parts and I just can't see them rolling over in the meek way that the other companies have.
Meek? Rolling over? I personally don’t agree with either of those descriptions as they pertain to this situation. I know there are many who do however.

Might I suggest though that none of these companies entered into any agreements lightly, and were far from rolling over. I think it came down to who had the most leverage and what decision would be best for each party involved given their realistic options. It was about surviving and continuing their businesses. I would not call that either meek, nor rolling over, no matter what the outcome of the decisions ended up being.

And as I have stated before, it is easy to sit back and condemn companies for their decisions and not wanting to risk it all in a prolonged court battle. It seems like folks think the real world is like an old Movie Western….. the good guy wears a white hat and the bad guy wears a black one. And the good guy always sticks to his guns and risks death itself to put the bad guy in his place. Then when the final showdown comes along, no matter the odds, the good guy out-shoots the bad guy and his gang… grabs the woman and rides off into the sunset.

Life, and business, is not quite like that……. unfortunately. How I wish it was………..

Originally posted by personman

Sam, you made a mistake in reading his post. He said that smart parts will not stop UNTIL they destroy the electric marker.. just pointing that out.

I personally believe smart parts' actions are selfish. Sure, while it may be a good tactic to use to stay large in an industry, a monopoly is not the best way. I think they would get more money if they actually did some R&D to make a gun that was WORTH BUYING unstead of eliminating all choices, forcing everyone who wants a nice short crisp trigger to buy an impy or a shocker. But then again, there will be other companys who gave into smart parts, to try to save them self, but their prices will most likely be higher than smart parts.
Good point personman… sorry for misreading that.

Okay…….. I still think that statement is factually incorrect. Why? Because like I stated, if that WAS their goal, it is self defeating. They make FAR more money letting everyone continue to make and sell their markers (and getting a cut from it), than if they were the only one making them.

I agree… what they are doing IS selfish. But isn’t that the point?

But I don’t agree with your assessment that they want to force everyone to buy SP markers, and eliminate the production of other brands/types. That, again, just does not make sense given what is happening. And correct me if I am wrong, aren’t there already electric markers made by other companies that cost more than SP’s markers?

[personman]

Originally posted by shartley
And correct me if I am wrong, aren’t there already electric markers made by other companies that cost more than SP’s markers?
Of corse there are. But my point is, their prices go up, while smart parts' prices stay the same. No one wants a $2000 dollar gun so naturally they go with the $400 impulse.

[shartley]

Originally posted by personman

Of corse there are. But my point is, their prices go up, while smart parts' prices stay the same. No one wants a $2000 dollar gun so naturally they go with the $400 impulse.
I think that is a perfect example of what I have been talking about…… How much are X-Mags? Do you think they would go up $500 or more to cover any SP induced price hike? How about Angels? How about any other marker?

I sure as heck don’t. LOL

With that said, do these higher priced markers already sell? But why? How on earth can they compete with a $400 Impulse?!?!?! ;)

See my point?

[Kevmaster]

My opinion:

We live in capitolism. If thats the way we want our economy set up, and most would agree, this means everyone for themselves. Businesses do what they can to make the most money. If that means they use something the government (rightly or wrongly) gave them, thats business. The government can correct itself in court if a compay chooses to fight it. (I've spoken to two companies that will not 'roll over'). Our country was founded on everyone for themselves and to try to do as best as you can. Thats what SP is doing. There is nothing inherantly wrong with it, if you like capitolism. Sure, the patent may be a little broad, but they got it LEGALLY and if the gvt agrees, then they'll size it down. But they may have the rights to it. its not for you or me to decide--its for some lawyers and a judge.

[GT]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
My opinion:

We live in capitolism. If thats the way we want our economy set up, and most would agree, this means everyone for themselves. Businesses do what they can to make the most money. If that means they use something the government (rightly or wrongly) gave them, thats business. The government can correct itself in court if a compay chooses to fight it. (I've spoken to two companies that will not 'roll over'). Our country was founded on everyone for themselves and to try to do as best as you can. Thats what SP is doing. There is nothing inherantly wrong with it, if you like capitolism. Sure, the patent may be a little broad, but they got it LEGALLY and if the gvt agrees, then they'll size it down. But they may have the rights to it. its not for you or me to decide--its for some lawyers and a judge.

I would love to see BE bend SP over and give'em the stingray. Maybe folks would would stop the anti BE talk once and for all.

jb

[hAppy]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Like I said, theres nothing you can do. The law is simple, they were smart enough to grab the patent before anyone else did. Was it the right thing to do? Maybe not, all I'm saying is you have to live with it, you don't have to like it. Boycotting SP will do nothing, because the "pros" will not give up thier electros, even if they decide to not shoot SP guns fine. They go and buy a brand new Intimidator, which puts money in SP's pocket is all I'm saying. The only way to do anything, is to lobby lawmakers and get the Patent laws changed and such. Again, it's America, a land of free enterprise, which SP jumped on first. I'm surprised no one else did. It doesn't matter who invented it first, it matters who got the patent first. Therefore, theres no use crying over it. And like I've said, you don't have to like it at all. Was it right for SP to do? From strictly a business standpoint yes. From trying to pull pb world together as a community, probably not, they've done more harm than good there. no its not considered a smart move, but rather a selfish and greedy one

im sure everyones thought about becoming millionaires, but not everyone wants to ruin it all for everyone. its smart parts pathetic last ditch effort to get money, those dumb ****s

[Heebs]

Originally posted by WARPED1
If you don't like it, move to a communist nation, like China or Cuba(where everyone gets benefits and money whether they work or not!).

Genius... And America wouldn't be here today if that was the prevailing principle of that time. Glad we all wanna not rock the boat and stay with the status quo when people poop on each other.

I think we need more monopolies in this country and let the industry and innovation go straight to hell in a handbasket /sarcasm.

Heebs