Was that bounce?

[Nachos]

This weekend I was playing at my local field and it was the end of the day and i had a hopper full of paint, so I decided to see how fast I could shoot my Angel Speed.

I laid my barrel down on the "Paintball Radar" and did some quick bursts, 2nd burst i did 16bps! So.... I was proud, hehe. But someone at the chrono said "that was all bounce".

My trigger is stock out of the box. It felt perfect out of the box so I never messed with it. I have gotten pretty good at walking it and it feels natural in a game for me to walk my trigger.

Now everyones wetting their pants about the new A4 from WDP, and the buff at my local shop said he did 25bps.... yeah.. 25! And there were witnesses. Now... was that bounce or did he actually pull the trigger 25 times?!?! He is a WDP tech and first thing he did was mess with the trigger.

Anyways... just wondering if I really pulled 16bps or was a damn dirty cheater, lol. Also how much better can the A4 be than a normal Angel Speed and can someone really pull the trigger 25 times in 1 second? Or is HE the damn dirty cheater? lol

I am fast with my ULE E-Mag, at least everyone else says so but not as fast as my Angel Speed (just a slight edge on speed) but hopefully that new 3.0 software will even them out :)

[tony3]

i dont doubt he could shoot 25 bps, but he could of fired two shots with 1/25 second intervols, and people consider that 25 bps...

[FreakBaller12]

it is probably the fraction of the secodn it took him to pull the trigger
for example if you pull and shoto a ball in .10 seconds you are going 10 bps
.05 for one ball your goign 20 bps

[Nachos]

I see... that makes sense. So I guess I could do 25bps too. I only did it a couple of times, after i did 16bps everyone came up to the chrono and shot the rest of the paint in my gun trying to beat my 16bps, lol. no one did but I got alot of "I could do 20 if I had my gun", hehehe

[No sKiLLz]

I didn't think the Speed had debounce settings. Am I wrong?

[Top Secret]

There aren't any debounce settings as far as I know. It's an optically activated trigger.

[ezrunner]

the speed does not have any settings that the user can access as far as bounce is concerned.

The speed was built as a no-nonsense professional level paintball gun.

It will fire up to 31 balls per second with the SENSI enabled.

The sensi allows your gun to fire at the rate of your feeder, instead of too fast or too slow.

There is no bounce because there is no "switch". The gun works on an opto-coupler. There is an infra-red beam that is broken and when you pull the trigger that beam is picked up by the sensor.

So if you walk 16bps your gun shoots 16bps.

(BTW with SENSI off the gun shoots at the preset MROF, 11 - 22 bps that you can adjust through the grip frame.)

-rob

[Twon]

Does the A4 works the same way? Because last sunday I tried one and I got 27 bps on the counter. Didn't sound like 27 but that's what I read.

Twon

[ezrunner]

The A4 has the same engine as the speed, but with an even shorter ram and solenoid. That is why it can be 1/2" shorter than the speed.

The A4 boards will control speeds and vice versa, they both use sensi, but the A4 has more intelligence and user programmability, along with the feed neck, and external trigger adjustments.

-rob

[Load SM5]

Speeds can bounce; I've seen it happen. A teammate of mine squeezed off a few shots right as we took the field at a tourney and the gun just went off. He took his finger off the trigger and that thing just emptied the hopper, on full auto. It was the oddest thing and we could never duplicate it again. It was stock right out of the box.

[ezrunner]

Ok, that is more "reactive" or "runaway"

The term bounce has been argued back and forth but here is the down low.

The regular leaf switches and the older dome switches have several signals evertime you fire.

The first signal is the biggest, like an earth quake, and as the switch is released it bounces back and forth so if your switch operates on 5 volts, you'll see several signals:

5V, 3.3V, 2,8V, 2,2V, 1.7V, 0.8V, 0V

or something along those lines. The circuitry may actually see the first 4 signals if you don't wait them out. Some guns don't wait them out, ie "Turbo Mode" on the early shockers.

Now, any electro can be setup so that the recoil of the gun is enough to set off the trigger.

That may be what you saw, I actually had my speed setup like that and had to take it back a little. Just turn out the trigger toe adjustment screw 1/4 turn.

-rob

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by ezrunner


The term bounce has been argued back and forth but here is the down low.



Well,IMO, that's just one acceptable description of bounce and the primary one WAS uses as a reason to add a bounce setting in the first place.(but we all know the real reason)

As far as I'm concerned,bounce is any condition on an electro where the return force of the trigger is less than the transmitted kick of firing the marker.This allows it to continue to fire after the first shot at an increasing rate due to the recoil and your finger bouncing off the trigger switch.It can be done on ANY electronic gun with an adjustable trigger regardless of the type.(incuding Opto and Hes)

And it IS "cheating" as far as I'm concerned.I personally have yet to see a stock boarded gun "bounce" based on trigger noise that does not have a "bounce" adjustment.

Jay.

[ezrunner]

You can say that but the RT valve on the mag had the same effect as what you are describing so it's been going on for years :)

Most stock boarded guns had the ROF capped at 13 for a long time and were not sampling the signal from the trigger switch fast enough for the bounce to be an issue.

That is the timeout variable I was talking about.

-rob

[RRfireblade]

That's quite true on the R/T and an exact example of the bounce most people are using on an electo just exagerated to the max.The ROF cap has little to do with bounce that's not considered "trigger noise". I can bounce my Imp(non- vision capped @ 13.7) all day long right up to chirps with nothing more than an ND trigger.All stock software has a threashold setting for determining a pulled trigger and the trigger noise normally associated with a stock micro is far below that assuming the switch is functioning properly.

[ezrunner]

Dude, I totally agree about the shots you don't pull being in that grey area of the sport.

However, if there are guns coming from company A that have that feature, and nobody wants to anger company A by banning their guns, then we have to keep up with the "jones's" so to speek.

You have to play on an even field, so as long as it is allowed I say use it so you get back to the players having to decide the game.

-rob

[RRfireblade]

That's true, however "bounce" of any kinda is actually illegal regardless of whether it's actually enforced or not.

But I don't want to open that can of worms.;)

Jay.

[ezrunner]

:)

[Dye Angel Guy]

With my 2k2 timmy I could shoot 17 without paint or air so it can be done.

[845]

Can you really consider switch noise bounce? I always considered bounce to be either RT or to have the trigger set so short the recoil sets off the gun.

[coolcatpete]

Well they could have gotten 24 cps because I know my friend jake with a dragun timmy got 24 cps (only if the hopper could keep up) and this is not bs this is real so it is possible.