*Deviant Bolt System | Interchangable bore, bolt tips!!!

[*ArKfEaR*]

http://itspaintball.com/page5.html

Now this looks hot, whenever it comes out Im picking one up for my bushy.

Its out for the cocker now.

Very great idea, if you want the perfect paint match for your barrel, why not for your bolt too?

Mad light + very smoothe.

[Southpaw]

That is funny why buy a marker so out of tolerance that you would need that?? I would hope that all "GOOD" guns have some sort of testing to see if things had the tolarances that were acceptable. with all bad bodys melted down to form a new gun.

[MarkM]

I thought the same thing, surely the bolt would be of the right size for the breech in the first place so then any mis-match is from the ball onwards..after all any mis-match of the internals will lead to inconsistency.
If this new bolt system is trying to overcome the differing ball sizes then how in the hell does it centre the ball? Unless you are firing 180 degrees straight up the ball will fall to one side of the bolt..if you could even feed a marker like that, not that it would matter as even if you could, as last time I looked players don't perform bombing runs ;)

[Crighton]

I've been telling my buddies about my paintball gimmick idea for over a year now. Looks like some one finally put it into production. I'm sure they will sell hundreds of them just on the idea that it does something. I know that was my plan.

[dansim]

thats pretty retarded

[-=Squid=-]

That really is a dumb idea, but of course, they will sell hundreds on a gimmick. Good thing AO isnt that retarded :rolleyes:

[JEDI]

It is fairly retarded. The ball is gonna sit in the breech or the barrel, and not really be effected by the bore size of the bolt. Especially in a cocker. The ball is loaded into and waiting in the barrel. A fuzzy stick squeegie from the back end of the gun would do the same job of loading the ball.

The last thing I'm gonna do before a tourney is match my ball to my barrel, and then match my bolt to my barrel. I rarely do anything other than screw a boomstick onto my gun.

[CpSuPeRkId]

i dont think you guys are grasping the concept of it. its not to match your paint. its to match the bore of your bolt tube perfectly so you get less blowback which can result in faster feeding probably and definintely a gain in air efficiency. i think its a good idea and will probably sell pretty well. is it for me? hell no. i wont spend 60 bucks on a bolt KIT. thats rediculous. i have NEVER had a problem with blow back or anything of that matter with any of the guns ive owned and especially not with the viking i own now. im not going to replace the perfectly fitted aka lightning bolt with this one that could end up proving to be bad quality and pointless. so in theory, yes i still think its a good idea and its cool that somebody made it. but i personally dont see a point in actually buying one.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by CpSuPeRkId
i dont think you guys are grasping the concept of it. its not to match your paint. its to match the bore of your bolt tube perfectly so you get less blowback which can result in faster feeding probably and definintely a gain in air efficiency. i think its a good idea and will probably sell pretty well. is it for me? hell no. i wont spend 60 bucks on a bolt KIT. thats rediculous. i have NEVER had a problem with blow back or anything of that matter with any of the guns ive owned and especially not with the viking i own now. im not going to replace the perfectly fitted aka lightning bolt with this one that could end up proving to be bad quality and pointless. so in theory, yes i still think its a good idea and its cool that somebody made it. but i personally dont see a point in actually buying one.

you just proved our point. It's really dumb since the gain is minimal for the price.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by FooTemps


you just proved our point. It's really dumb since the gain is minimal for the price.

Right, and why would you buy several bolt sizes so that one works, and you end up never using the other 3 sizes? Why not just bring your gun to a shop, and slide a few different bolts into your gun. Then, just buy ONE bolt that fits well.

I think this product leans on the side of pointless, and unnecessary.

[thei3ug]

with oringless bolts on electros, there's a bit of blowback which tended to affect your max ROF. your dwells and your balls are affected. Fitted bolts increased the efficiency and your feed rate at higher ROF.

With cockers it's the same thing. People were noticing blowback even with some oringed bolts. Most people don't realize this, but historically WGP tubes have varied WIDELY over the past 15 years. Even in one production year you have wide variations in ID. Though there's such a big deal about "genuine" bodies sparked by the suit, AKA bodies are made to closer tolerance. But that's besides the point. So the problem with electros is made VERY apparent in an autococker, already at a ROF disadvantage with closed bolt action. Instead of getting a fitted bolt, they took a page from Bob Long's book and had interchangeable heads. Same price.

you don't USE all the heads. you only use ONE head. the heads are provided so you pick the one that works in your gun. You do this because A) you don't bring a caliper to a paintball store and check every delrin oringless bolt's OD... and it cost just as much to get a fitted bolt.

Seriously... are you complaining because of the cost, similar to many of the decent bolts out there, or because it has more than one part, and are complaining on principle? It's a time effective, economical solution to sending your gun into a guy with a lathe who will have it for a few weeks.

[shartley]

Personally I don’t know enough about this to say it DOES or DOES NOT do what is claimed. But it seems that folks here admit that it may, even only if marginally do what it claims. And if that is the case, how can anyone say the price is not worth it for even a minimal gain?

Don’t we see folks buy new “upgrades” or “accessories” that don’t even do THAT much? And don’t we see folks send their markers off to be made “pretty” which has nothing to do with performance at all? And what about all the new milling styles and bodies that are available (which also do nothing for performance)?

The list of products or services that are available is lengthy. And folks pay for them. I think it comes down to what each person thinks is “dumb” or “fair priced” for THEM and what they expect out of it…. nothing more.

[JEDI]

No ones complaining, or going on the warpath against a company. People are just stating their opinions, and commenting on the lack of necessity. My gun, and most guns have worked acceptably well before this bolt, and they will continue to do so after.

[shartley]

Originally posted by JEDI
No ones complaining, or going on the warpath against a company. People are just stating their opinions, and commenting on the lack of necessity. My gun, and most guns have worked acceptably well before this bolt, and they will continue to do so after.
And Spyders will continue to work acceptably too… but some folks want a bit more than “acceptable”. ;)

I see this all the time in the Auto Parts Market…. There are thousands of things you can buy. Some will increase your performance a little, some a lot. But those who want to squeeze the most out of what they drive will usually get them all.

It’s all good.

[JEDI]

Sure, I'd say thats a fair assesment. But where do you draw the line between money spent, and marginal improvement? When I say works fairly well, I mean I dont want/need any more outta my marker. I'm happy with its performance. But none the less Shartley, your comparison is a good point.

[shartley]

Originally posted by JEDI
Sure, I'd say thats a fair assesment. But where do you draw the line between money spent, and marginal improvement? When I say works fairly well, I mean I dont want/need any more outta my marker. I'm happy with its performance. But none the less Shartley, your comparison is a good point.
I think that line is purely subjective to the wants and the budget of each person. I know that for me, I would not buy this product. Heck that is the same with many Auto Parts.

I buy what I think will best suit my needs and budget.

But I know some folks that would pay $600-$1200 for a small boost of 5HP in their cars. Hey, whatever floats their boat… and whatever they can afford.

Honestly, if I could afford it, I would have the latest marker on the market, all the best upgrades, etc. Same with my car. But I can’t. But I also will not say that those who CAN are doing something stupid, or it isn’t worth it… maybe it is for them. And that, after all, is what counts in the end.

[lopxtc]

Sort of like spending $300+ to save say ~3oz on the total weight of your valve :) ...

Aaron


Originally posted by JEDI
Sure, I'd say thats a fair assesment. But where do you draw the line between money spent, and marginal improvement?

[*ArKfEaR*]

The point of the system is to decrease, blowback to 0, and to increase efficiency.

[einhander619]

Actually, I could have used something like that, but for a reason other than blowback. I'm usually forced to shoot small caliber paint, and so usually used a smaller insert. This caused problems for my bushy, because the front of the bolt was actually bigger than the insert, which meant it couldn't come forward all the way and hit my valve stem. Although I doubt that's what the maker is getting at, I don't think it's totally useless.

[nicad]

Iv known (not personally) Josh for a few years. He seems to know his stuff. This particular product is VERY helpful in some instances to prevent blowback up the feedtube (as well as help boost effiency). I have a Spanky Cobra cocker body with the upper tube so large that the blowback would leak past the bolt tip on firing and litterly toss the next balls in the stack (no hopper) about 6' up in the air. I ended up making my own oversized bolt tip which fixed it beautifully... but this was before he came out with the Deviant so I had no alternative.

out!

[Southpaw]

I would hope that makers of paintball markers would hold to a higher tolarance level if this was such a high problem area. I also would assume that if out of spec the body would be melted down. just my guess what some places do

[kilaueakid]

Well looking at this from the outside of the box I think it is a great idea and mainly for one reason. You have small bore paint(Or I should say variable sized paint), you can now match the bolt up with the paint to limit the amount of "smack" on the next ball in the the stack which is the leading cause of most barrel breaks in most guns. The speed and force of the bolt can put a small crack on the next ball depending on how much of it is hitting the top edge of the bolt. Blowback.....with loaders like the Warp feed and Halo, you do not have to worry about balls back up the feed stack. I can't speculate how many shots you will lose per tank fill because of more blowback, but I would want to think it would definately save some barrel breaks. I thought of this before lvl 10 and using a setup that used different sized bore's to try to eliminate the problem of "ball bobble"(top edge of bolt hitting the bottom of next ball waiting to chamber). Same idea with using the different sized tips.

kila

[pbjosh]

I will gladly wade in here and take on the naysayers-

My name is Josh Coray, I came up with the concept for the Deviant (formerly the Mutant) Bolt System. The design is mine.

The bolt was designed to solve MY problems with setting up Race Cockers. If you do not have blowback issues, then I didn't make it for you.

One of the biggest problems I had was blowback from small Outside Diameter Bolts like the Superfly. The superfly is suppose to be a 'Tolerance Fit' bolt that has a delrin portion that seals in the breech. The problem is, the superfly has on OD of .679-.680. With a common breech sized between .688-.692 on a cocker (due to manufacturer, anno choices and number of times annodized) there is going to be blowback due to the difference between the bolt and ID of the breech being far to large.

After hunting, I found custom handmade bolts that would fit, but I would have to have about 5 different OD of bolts, times 5 for different lenghts (pre-2k, 2k, P-blocks, etc.) I would have had to have 25 different bolts made to take in any one gun that would walk through my door.

Or I could have tips made that would fit on the different backs. So the tips could fit the gun I had in the shops breech, and then I could grab the back that would match.

Then I realized I could throw 3-4 tips in a package with a back and sell it as a kit.

So, this was originally a real world problem solver for myself. Not a gimmick whipped up by some nobody. Over 12 years in the sport, and I hate gimmicks.

Does you bolt seal well? DO you know the difference?

I had a gun that would cycle 15bps, a really nice cocker. Open time with a HALO would be about 10ms. I couldn't put the load below 45ms. With a HALO. Or a WARP. Because of blowback. And another gun I had in the shop at the same time had the same problem, even with a load time of 55. After I found a good sealing bolt (one with 3 o-rings) the guns load was turned down to 10 again.

The difference in speed was 15bps compared to 8-9bps, with a HALO. Can you imagine having a HALO and not being able to shoot over 8bps?

From the original (including Feedback) sections on pbnation-

http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144829&highlight=mutant+bolt

Including critisism-

aja ended up buying the rights and releasing as the Deviant because he liked it so much, here is what he said:

that mutant bolt thingy

I got one of the first run of them, I figured what the hell, I've tried every other bolt out there, what's another $50, right? There have been a few different bolts with multiple heads, dating back to the old cooper-T days, most for different venturi patterns. This is the first one in the 13 years I've been playing/working in the industry that I've seen that matches breach size.
I got the box in the mail, opened it, and my first reaction was "that's freakin ugly!" After looking at it for a while, shooting a couple cases with it, dropping the pressure on my cocker 100psi with it, eliminating blowback almost entirely with it, I still say it's freakin ugly.
I do have to give him credit on this one... Good work! I like the idea of a completely oringless delrin bolt. They're fast as hell, no orings to wory about keeping lubricated, but they've always been a bear where blowback is concerned. I've had a couple delrin's that were so bad the feeder looked much like a popcorn popper (shocktech comes to mind). I know the gun is timed correctly for the vaccum effect, it works that way with an aluminum bolt. I always end up back using the stock WGP bolt. It's a little sluggish, but the open face seems to work best for me. I found it's replacement!
It's faster than anything else I've used, requires a lot less pressure going into the ram to move the thing, the input pressure can be dropped a bit to compensate for the larger openings and less resistances, overall, the thing gets a B+ (it would get an A if it wasn't so freakin ugly!)
It's pretty rare that I write a review on a product. There just aren't many I like enough to say "yah, I'd admit I use that. Hell, I like it so much I'd stock it at my store" Well, it's on the shelves...

I really say this is one bolt people should try. No, it's not venturi (thank god). No, it's not the prettiest thing, but it's in the gun 99% of the time, so who cares (except me of course). For the price of this bolt, you could buy a bolt that you'll use twice, realize it sucks and toss in your toolbox, or find some poor kid on ebay to buy the PoS, or you can pick up a bolt you'll actually use. (and you'll buy it from me of course!)

Okay, if you have read this far, please reply.

Josh