problems with trigger return in a level 7

[ldemiliani]

Hi,

i am having troubles with my minimag, here's what is ee, please give me ideas on what to do:

the setup is a powerlyte double trigger frame, level 7 valve, standard foamieless bolt, no upgrades.

what happens is after shooting, the gun starts to leak. It is not the typical barrel leak or on-off problem diagnosed by shooting and keeping the trigger pushed and things like that. what happens exactly, as far as i have seen, is that the trigger sticks and what i think happens is that the on off pin does not return to the original position, therefore keeping the flow of air into the power tube. this is the leak i see. after shooting again it resets and stops leaking. it happens every couple of shots.

i have tried the following actions, unsuccesfully:

1. changed theteflon orings on the on off. this was to see if the ones originally fitted (1 year old) were deformed and therefore adding friction to the path the on off pin has to travel from zero to open and back to zero.
no results.

2. changed spacers in the power tube.
no result

3. changed bolt spring, so more pressure was exerted on return, to see if this helped the on off pin in its trajectory. no results.

4. changed the setting on the regulator so that a bit more pressure was injected into the low pressure part of the valve. this was to see if we could help the on off pin in its movement.
no results.

5. changed the length of the trigger rod. no results.


i have also changed power tube inner oring and on off top large oring. no results again.

i expect to try a new on off this weekend, to see if the probles is the valve or perhaps the body.

i had it polished by a local metalworker, i dont know if a change in tolerance on the width of the body can cause this type of problem, but i am not sure.
perhaps if i sanded the back of the sear that would help?

thanks for the help.

[PyRo]

Don't polish the sear, you had the on-off itself polished? Try a new one and see if that helps. Did you do somthing to create this probelm (take it apart, mess with something, run it over with a truck etc), or did it just randomly happen?

[athomas]

Originally posted by ldemiliani

what happens is after shooting, the gun starts to leak. It is not the typical barrel leak or on-off problem diagnosed by shooting and keeping the trigger pushed and things like that.

Every leak in a mag is a typical leak. There is only so many places a mag can leak. Each leak is a result of specific circumstances.

Lets diagnose:

When the gun is gassed up and ready, is the trigger rod fully forward?

Is the trigger loose in front of the trigger rod when the gun is ready to fire?

Does it leak out the front when ready to fire?

Are there any leaks when you hold the trigger in after you fire the gun?

Have you altered your on/off pin in any way, including polishing?

Are you using a genuine AGD parts kit?

Do you regularly oil your mag?

Are you using a regulator between you fixed output bottle and your mag?



If the pin is sticking in the on/off assembly it would prevent the front of the valve from recharging. There should be no leaking if this is the case. It would be the same as holding the trigger in after firing.

[ldemiliani]

thanks for the repli4es.

sorry, i wasn't clear. the body is what i had polished. it was gray, then painted it black and that's where the problems started. then plished it to eliminate the paint (after using a cleaning producto to remove most of it).
after gassing up the gun, everything looks ok. there is a separation between the trigger and the rod, as normal, no leaks. after shooting, just a single shot, i see the rod is not returning to the original position but "sticks", and that is when the gun leaks. i assumed the on off is sticking because the on off pin is what pushed the rod back to the original positio or am i wrong? the sear just keeps the bolt back and resets the system right? so polishing or sanding the sear won't works because that would afect the return and "reset" of the bolt.
i haven't had the chance to change the on off assembly but i will start by doing that.
the question about tolerances on the main body arose because it might happen that since the body was polisshed, the thick of the body was reduced, now that creates more contact between the back of the sear and the on off pin, perhaps causing a faster activation of the pin or things like that, it might even be taht this reduction of separation causes taht the pin, after returning, is not able to fully move the rod.
but i am just imagining possible causes here.

When the gun is gassed up and ready, is the trigger rod fully forward?
the trigger rod is fully forward and does not touch the back of the trigger.

Is the trigger loose in front of the trigger rod when the gun is ready to fire?
yes. there is a small gap.

Does it leak out the front when ready to fire?
after gassing, does not leak. after a shot, it starts to leak and if you shoot it again and check the position of the rod, if it returns completely, it stops leaking. if not, keeps leaking.

Are there any leaks when you hold the trigger in after you fire the gun?
no. if i keep the trigger pressed, there is no leaking

Have you altered your on/off pin in any way, including polishing?
no, tehe on off pin =is original.

Are you using a genuine AGD parts kit?
yep. i have a couple of kits and have changed the orings in the powertube and the on off .all orings are original AGD.
\
Do you regularly oil your mag?
yep. i oil it using the automag oil before each game day

Are you using a regulator between you fixed output bottle and your mag?
no. the tank is a pmi pure energy 68, 3000


thanks for the time and help. let me know what you think based on these answers.

[Dayspring]

Sounds like plain old bolt stick. Try changing the spacer inside the powertube. Get yourself a powertube spacer kit and give them a shot.

[ldemiliani]

that´s a question i've always had.

mi level 7 does not use any spacers. i have only seen spacers and spacers lkit avilable for a RT valve.

so anyway, the spacers can be used on level 7 valves?
i will add one and see.

[ldemiliani]

you are also right in one thing. if the bolt was coming back all the way, there is no apparent reason for the rod of the trigger to not return completely to its original position.
again. i will add a spacer and see.

[Dayspring]

If you don't use a spacer, what do you have? Spring?

[ldemiliani]

no, just the oring.
as far as i remember, that's the way it came.
i will add it.

[Dayspring]

So you're telling me there's NO spacer or spring or anything that came with the valve in the powertube? Just that oring right?

[ldemiliani]

right.

[Dayspring]

Well THAT'S your problem!

[ldemiliani]

The thing is, it worked without it before, so why does it bug now?.
so it is a confiormation, all level 7 have spacers in the PT
i will try and confirm if the problem continues.

whenever i have experienced bolt stick it is pretty evident, and the only way to reset it is to insert a squeegie and push thebolt back. this is not the case, because the leak stops after the next shot. That's why i didn't think about spacers or issues in the power tube.

[ldemiliani]

hello,

i tried .225 and .230 spacers and the problem continues. what i see is exatcly the same.

what about increasing pressure on the low pressure part of the valve, moving the hex screw inside the regulator? i know it's not recommendable.

[Dayspring]

no, no and no.

DO NOT adjust that.

[athomas]

Check the condition of the sear. Make sure there are no obvious wear marks.

It sure sounds like bolt stick though. Maybe with the powerlyte grip frame, some of the tolerances are different. The spacers you have may not work properly. Make sure the powertube o-ring goes in the powertube first and then is held in place by the spacer.