No drop forwards for the pros??

[atcer]

aimlessly wondering from picture to picture in a recent paintball 2xtreams, i started realizing that almost none of the pro/semi pro/sponsored teams use drop forwards, and if they do, they are small (ie shocktech mini). is there a reason for this? the only thing i could think of was that you could get your arm tighter to your body because it wouldnt have to wrap around the tank... but im not allways the smartest guy on the block.. any thoughts?

[Cliffio]

i hate using drops with my tanks/guns

i couldnt tell you what the reason is, i find it uncomfortable to be all scruntched up with my gun right in my grill.

so to answer your question, i dont know

[Dubstar112]

I dotn use a drop forward. I run a straight ASA. Im not pro either... :)

CCM autococker, 45ci right to the bottom line.

[Cliffio]

haha, a 45ci tank doesnt even need a drop, those things are way too tiny

i should have made it clear but ive got a 92ci without a drop:)

[dcmander]

It is to lower the profile of the gun.

[Load SM5]

I porefer little to no drop for 68 tanks and smaller. More and more people are starting to realize that tanks make great stocks for stabilizing your marker and steadying your aim. The shoulder also takes some off the weight off of your hand to leave your shooting hand free to work the trigger, without having to goosneck your wrist too much. I find it easier to stay tucked in without the tank hanging way down, too. It's all personal preference really.

[camilion705]

EDIT: lol, guy above and I posted at the same time...

Without a drop you can play a little bit tighter, wrap around sup' air bunkers, etc.

I have found that it is easier to point/aim without a drop too. I also dont like having the end of the gun right in my face.

Also your trigger hand is in a more comfortable position w/out a drop. Instead of the wierd bent wrist position.

[Carbon]

Personaly i find no drop, makes a beter platform for running while shooting, and its a lot quicker to shoulder, with the butt of the tank acting as a pivot. But yeah, its all a matter of preferance.

[Steelrat]

I just got rid of my drops in favor of CP rails. I have found that the rails are much easier to shoulder, provide a more stable platform, and reduce my profile.

[Gadget]

I tried a drop but found it made the marker a bit ungainly, now just using a rather ghetto rail:

http://www.chimpy.com/pics/pball/guns/mine1.jpg

[breg]

I like the Shocktech Mini drop personally. But, I guess it's all a matter preference.

[skirts]

hybrid and cp both make really nice mini rails... they work great with the dovetail mount of a flatline tank and are perfect for a 45/45...

[Bolter]

I think you may be right with the goose neck thing. If the bottle is forward you will have to bend your wrist around the bottle, if not then you won't.

I have an Eclipse drop on mine. Just a small one.

[ZAust]

i guess i am in the minority then. i NEED a drop. anything else just doesnt feel right. right now im running a cp razor drop, and it is a nice length and drop. however, im looking our for something that moves the tank forward a bit more. i like to be very compact, and the closer the gun is the better i feel.

[Fred]

maybe... little is the new big? :confused: :D

I think with the more compact tanks available today, you just don't need the big drop to balance the setup...

and maybe players are realizing that the 45 gripframe isn't the most comfy when its an inch or two in front of your mask...

---Fred

[nickname]

Need Big Tank It's a long walk back to the refil station in a scenario game

[Xyxyll]

I really don't see how having a 3 foot long setup makes you "tighter." I love compactness.

http://www.x-customs.com/images/outside.jpg

[68Classic]

I have a 47ci tank and I use a psycoballistic drop. My gun is so compact. I just like the gun being close and small.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Fred
I think with the more compact tanks available today, you just don't need the big drop to balance the setup.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[tony3]

I like rails, but Im also a big fan of shocktech mids, with my 68 Ill switch to a shocktech mid, but if and when i get a 45/45 ill switch to a rail. I used to hate long guns, now its the other way around I like the gun alittle longer

[nastymag]

i like havign small drops ... the shocktech one right before the tiny angled one is the best for me.

i like the reg part of a screw in to be mostly under the grip. and the whole bottle out. i dont like any bottle under the grip

[UltimatePaintballer]

how do not having a drop make you tighter or lower profile?????? thats an oxymoron.:rolleyes:

[fcpchop]

i cant play without a drop, it makes it way more compact and easier to play tight

[UltimatePaintballer]

drop forwards with rule the day! but if i have a drop it has to be long, no use in spending 30 dollars for a rail or stubby:rolleyes:

[CpSuPeRkId]

i hate drop forwards. its weird. when you first start paintballing you LOVE drops and you think the bigger the better. then you become experienced and realized drops are amazingly stupid and only hurt your game and feel like crap. its just something that grows on you and the lightbulb turns on and ur like hmmmm thats why all those pros dont use drops.

drops make your gun more compact from top to bottom. when you are snapshooting it doesnt make a difference how compact your gun is from back to front because your opponent can still only see from the front. having no drop helps keep your gun smaller from top to bottom and reduces hits. second of all it keeps the gun further than like 1 inch from your face. you can aim better and you have abetter view of whats going on when you dont have a gun in your grill. with the frame further away your hand is also in a better position. its not all curved at the wrist like it is when the frame is too close to your face. this allows your hand to be in a more comfortable shooting position and helps sustain higher rates of fire form what ive experienced. to top it off the smaller the drop you have the less your gun will kick. if you are running a huge drop you will notice you can feel the gun kick more. this is due to the gun pivoting over the balance the drop creates. without a drop all the kick is pretty much absorbed into your shoulder and you feel almost nothing. besides all the positive points of running no drop, the feel of not using a drop grows on you and it seems like anything with a drop is too close to your face and uncomfortable.

so you see there are reasons for pros not using drops. they realized that from playing all those years that running no drop actually helps and improves their game. its as simple as that. its not some "bandwagon" as some people call it. theres a reason for drops being obsolete with more experienced players.

as for what i think is perfect. a preset 68/4500 with eitehr a check-it unimount or a CP rail mount and on/off asa. even a shocktech micro drop feels too big to me(im only 5'9" too). at the same time a regular duckbill asa feels too long. so basically the only thing i would ever use is a unimount or CP rail mount like in this pic of my gun: http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1074131

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by atcer
aimlessly wondering from picture to picture in a recent paintball 2xtreams, i started realizing that almost none of the pro/semi pro/sponsored teams use drop forwards, and if they do, they are small (ie shocktech mini). is there a reason for this? the only thing i could think of was that you could get your arm tighter to your body because it wouldnt have to wrap around the tank... but im not allways the smartest guy on the block.. any thoughts?

It makes your gun shorter, you can shoot from the hip while running also. It's easier to shoulder or tuck and press into a bunker when using a rail mount, and it balances the guns out better in my opinion.

[wobbles82]

Last two posts really said it well, gj guys. As much as I used to love drops, you must realize that some people prefer to get into the tournament scene and airball scene, and this usually involves ditching the drop for something smaller. It makes your gun bigger..plain and simple, such as taller. An RT/Pro with pf anything and a huge drop, is gonne by a very large gun to hit, and what happens when you want to run and rip at the hip? Dont think so with a drop. Now I prefer like a CP Rail or Unimount, with a very small tank to lock between my forearm. :D

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Load SM5
I More and more people are starting to realize that tanks make great stocks for stabilizing your marker and steadying your aim.

I agree with you, but I sill prefer a big drop forward. I like really bend the arm and bring the the marker in close to lock it basically under my shoulder (I have long narrow arms that contort weirdly).

So I use a drop forard to do basically what you're talking about.

[spyxtra]

using a drop makes shooting so much easyer becuase u are right behind the gun. without a drop it puts ur hands farther forward and it makes it harder to aim in a general direction wehn snap shooting. if ur tank sticks out 6-8 inches from behind ur gun it makes u more unstable and are more likely to miss ur target. this is only my opinon and my observation. people are differnt this is jsut wnat i have discoverd when i got my drop.

[B-Lazy]

Two things:


It makes your gun shorter, you can shoot from the hip while running also. It's easier to shoulder or tuck and press into a bunker when using a rail mount, and it balances the guns out better in my opinion.

You should never, ever shoot from the hip. You can't aim a gun with your hip, keep it up in front of your face.


using a drop makes shooting so much easyer becuase u are right behind the gun. without a drop it puts ur hands farther forward and it makes it harder to aim in a general direction wehn snap shooting. if ur tank sticks out 6-8 inches from behind ur gun it makes u more unstable and are more likely to miss ur target. this is only my opinon and my observation. people are differnt this is jsut wnat i have discoverd when i got my drop.

Think of it this way, which one is easier: aiming at a target that is far away from the tip of your gun or a target that is close to the tip? You can't aim as well when your gun is right in your face. Use the tank as a stock, it is the most stable way to shoot a paintball gun.

[dcmander]

It is almost to a fact where it helps your game with a rail or short drop...Learn to use it!

1) Lowers profile. Who cares if your gun is short and "compact"... The opponent doesn't see the length of your gun, only the height. A raildrop eliminates any extra height.

2) Better shooting. It is much easier to shoot with the tank against your shoulder. Also, to you guys who say it is easier shooting with the gun infront of your face..I agree--But I still use a rail drop. This is possible because we shoot different. If you are facing your opponent frontways, you are a bigger target. Try standing sideways to your opponent, and having the gun go across your body, shouldering the tank with the farthest shoulder back. This helps your profile, improves your stability, and shooting.

My 2 cents. Wish I could show pictures of the difference but I dont' have a digi..Anyone know what im talking about?

[BlackVCG]

Originally posted by B-Lazy
Two things:

You should never, ever shoot from the hip. You can't aim a gun with your hip, keep it up in front of your face.



Have you ever tried it? I don't know about you, but I don't aim. I just point and shoot and my paint stream dictates how I adjust where I'm shooting at.

Shooting from the hip allows you to run faster off the break, and it's a bit more stable of a platform than shouldering the gun and trying to run and shoot with it off the break.

[JG2790]

Most of you guys think that those who start paintball will like drops. I've never liked to use drops ever though. I found this out when I used a first Pirahna with the stock drop. I found that the gun's weight was focused way too much in the center, this provided me with a very heavy, cumbersome, and uncomfortable setup. I ended up not moving much in that game and payed the price for it. I think this preferences of no drops can be attributed to the fact that the first gun I used was a Tippmann M98 Custom. I found that the longer lenght of it compared to let's say..a Spyder, was very comfortable as opposed to Spyder/Spyder clones. Which is why when my E-Mag arrives I'll more than likely sell the drop and buy a rail..speaking of which...

Anyone know of a rail/mount that moves an N2 tank up forward enough so that most of the regulator is under the grip frame..I don't like the extra lenght provided by N2 regulators nor do I like drops (my tank will be especially long, since it will be a screw in)

Just my 2 cents, I know that everyone uses rails for other reasons, but I was surprised that no one mentioned the fact that drops put the weight on the center too much..

[nastymag]

well the Shocktech Mini drop only lowers the tank half and inch while moving the reg a good size in ... see if you can find the ones without an angle ...those are real nice

[tg ur 1t]

I wish I had a pic, but I turned the drop backwards. My tank faces me and is under the trigger of my E-mag. Before I did it I couldn't get the battery off w/o removing my tank, but now I can just slip the battery by. It brought the balance of the gun from the trigger guard back to rear of the grip. I like it... but it's not for everyone.

[Doc Nickel]

Well, let me add my five cents in, since I've been 'round since before there weredrops.

Here's the key: It's All Personal Preference.

Some of the above replies tend to imply that, because a few pros don't use drops, then nobody should use drops.

Oh, horsepucky. Each player chooses what feels comfortable for him or herself.

Personally, I used to play in the back-bottle days. Where the full 7-ounce tank came right off the back of the gun and you used it as a shoulder stock. This, needless to say, sucked, and before too long, Colin at LAPCO came up with the idea of a bottomline "duckbill".

You still used the tank as a stock, but now it came off the gun below your grip, rather than above it. This gave you clearance for your mask, and you could sight down the barrel a little easier.

Eventually we get HPA systems, and due to higer rates of fire and more paint being shot in games, bigger and bigger tanks.

It was pretty hard, at the beginning (mid 90s) to get HPA, so a lot pf players went with truly huge tanks, like the Air America 114ci. (Also keep in mind this was long before anybody started using 4500 psi too.) The reason here was that the field didn't always have HPA to fill with, or if they did, it was only a couple of SCUBAs or a small nitrogen tank.

So players would have the tank filled in town, or at the dive shop, or whatever, and that fill would have to last them most of the day at the field.

Most cradles for those same early HPA systems bolted right to the bottom of the grip. The 68 ci AA tank wasn't too bad this way, but the 114 was, of course, waytoofrigginhuge. Thus, the idea of the "drop-forward".

Early ones were just fancy bent bars that dropped a mounting point for the cradle forward and down (to clear the body of the tank) and later, they just kept getting fancier and fancier. This led to things like the KAPP Drop-Zone, the VL adjustable cradle, the Dynamount, and so on.

Now, after the Turn of the Century, and the introduction and widespread adoption of 4500-psi tanks, the increased supplies of HPA at more and more fields, the advent of the booster-pumps and somewhat cheaper HP compressors, it's no longer so important to have a huge tank. Chances are your field or event has HPA, and so as long as your bottle is big enough to shoot everything you're carrying in your harness (and a little to spare) anything larger is a waste. (And a target.)

And so, with tiny tanks like the 45-ci/4500s being pretty common, and their ability to power most any gun through most games with gas to spare, a big drop is not always needed to clear it.

However...

Not everyone has a really efficient gun (Matrixes, especially early ones, or Shockers, or badly-set-up "LP" 'Cockers, especially since I understand a lot of kids think leaving out the valve spring helps the "low pressure" operation) and not everyone has a field that has copious quantities of HP air on hand.

Also, some people like being able to tuck the gun up close- just because they're using a drop doesn't mean they're not shouldering it.

Plus, those that use the ever-popular "screw-in" tanks, often tend to prefer a drop, since with the reg, the tank is actually pretty long. Personally, even a 45/45 screw-in on a regular ducktail or even a CP mount, just feels too long. These (http://www.docsmachine.com/galleries/rawsilver.jpg) Two (http://www.docsmachine.com/galleries/estroke.jpg) are my current 'main guns'. They don't have a huge or long drop, but neither do they have no drop at all. I play with both shouldered like a rifle (not at the same time :D ) and have zero trouble with, say, the cocking block coming too close. I'd actually like to see both a skosh shorter, but I can live with it.

Bottom line, it's personal preference. I know guys- excellent players- that like the back of the tank no more than two inches further back than the back of the gun. I also know players that have ND 90-ci screw-ins on a ducktail (not a CP mount) which makes the gun long enough I can barely reach the damn trigger- but he insists he prefers it that way, says it feels better.

I know guys that like their tanks offset to the left, and I know one guy who offset his tank up and to the left- it was level with the middle of the grip. I know one guy that ran his 45/45 backward and used his LED as basically a big pistol. (And yes, in a tournament.)

If you like a long drop, use it. Don't ditch it and run something that's not comfortable or doesn't fit your play style "just because the pros do it that way". Some of the pros also wipe, shoot from out of bounds, and intentionally bunker other players 'til they're unconscious.

If you prefer no drop, or a very short drop, that's fine too. Use what you want, not what somebody tells you to use.

Doc.

[Fastkid]

I use a shocktech drop, I think its like a 3 or 4 inch shift... without it, I can not comfortably hold my mag. I have a 3000psi/47ci tank... I showed the misbalance to my parents, and explained to them what a drop forward is, and they imediately took me to the store and bought me one, just because how bad it was...

Wow... I can't imagine not having this drop

[ERut]

I love my drop. I use a Datapimp drop with a flatline.
I like to have just the tank reg under the grip with the whole bottle out the back. Even if it does make my gun taller by like two inches, my whole gun is rarely sticking out at the same time anyway.

[Jackel411]

With some tanks over all reg wieght it only makes sence to use a rail type system....

I currently run a 72/45 arrmageddon....Not wussy aluminum.. MANLY Stainless steel... UURHG! And its 2 pounds of sheer reg wieght directly under my grip frame added to the bulk of a halo Equates to perfect ballence.

The best reason I can ever come up with for using a rail is center of gravity.. the gun can wiegh 15 pounds but if the wieght is just ballence such that you will not notice it at all.

[cockermatt]

Drop Free House Zone

The Viking has a 88 on it, and the Matrix has a 88 aswell with a screw in ASA. 68 screw in belongs on the Angel, and my last 68 tank goes on the Trauma. DROP FREE

http://mat1622.8m.com/images/5_machine_guns_2.jpg

[CoolHand]

Bingo!

+1 to Doc for pointing out what everyone ought to know anyway.

I use a Shocktech med drop and a duckbill on my cocker, but on my Imp, I prefer the feel of the bottom line MaxFlo with no drop.

The "correct" setup is just what feels right for you.

Thanks for telling it like it is Doc.

Later all.

[speedyejl]

Not that I'm a pro but I've been using a drop on almost all my markers for the most part and I have my fair share of tournament experince and play fine. I'm standing behind it all personal preference. Just because pros are using something dosen't mean its the best, and its sad to even doubt your doing something wrong because the pros have it different. Last I remember 2 years back all the pros were running DZ3s on their 'Cockers and Angels. Its just another fad, maybe a good one, maybe not. Do what you want to do damint!

I've run the same DYE Drop, 32* ASA, and Crossfire 68/45 over my last three markers (NYX, Xmag, Nasty) and I've loved the feel on all of them. Handed them over to plenty of other people the sterotypical Lasyoa + Unimount and never had one complaint on the feel.

The NYX is running great on liquid Co2 thanks Doc!! ;)
(also everyone get a load of that DYE Angel trigger I got up on my Trix)
http://www.pbnationmagazine.com/data/85/1067127203nyxlg.jpg

[atcer]

one of the problems ive encountered with drops is none fit the 3k flatline. (as far as off-setting drops goes ie: kapp dropzone, empire glad. ) if im going to drop my tank that far forward, i want it to be offset to the left of the marker, so that my arm doesnt have to bend around it, causing the elbows to be a little farther out than i want. has anyone ever seen something like a kapp but with the cradle of a benchmark for the flatlines? VL used to make some boxy lookin thing that allowed you to change the position of tank on the fly.

[speedyejl]

Since everyones talking about it might as well post it.
I had the VL drop that moved around on my 2nd mag. Wow that was a decently long time ago.

Problem was it was a chunk of aluminum that had a decent amount of heft to it.

http://www.pbnationmagazine.com/data/85/1067128273mag.jpg

[DK1]

I run my maxflow moved as far forward on it's rail as it will go. I do the same with my armogeddon. If they were screw in systems, I'd use a drop. But they aren't, and with the way the regs and rails are used in those systems, a drop would be too bulky. However for screw in systems, I can't understand why someone WOULDN'T use a drop.

A lot of people talk about arm position, and how you look coming out of a bunker. I've checked using a big mirror to see, and with my arms at least, using a drop makes my arms stick out LESS than without. So I don't see where people say that running a drop sticks your elbow out. As for the whole "it makes your gun a bigger front target." I disagree there also. If you are shooting correctly, your tank shouldn't be visible at all when snapping. With out a drop, what you will have is anyone with a side shot at you will have a much bigger target, because you have to stay further away from your bunker to shoot without a drop. It's simple geometry.

So, I don't see any real evidence that running a dropless setup is "better" for any reason. I've heard a lot of people talk, but it just seems like preference to me.

DK1

[atcer]

HA HA!

I found one! after hours of searching old mags and the vast and sometimes usless internet, i found what i would consider to be the perfect setup. its called the warped sportz drop kick bottle adapter. It moves left, right, center, and can be used with a drop or as a rail style drop. SWEET this is what ive been looking for.

anyone know of this thing or have a pic?

[speedyejl]

http://www.warpedsportz.com/warped/800/Paintball/pbaccessories/warped/dropkicks4.gif