What is wrong with SP?

[MaGSkEr]

I haven't really been paying much attention to paintball recently, however after browsing the boards over the last few days I've noticed strong hatred expressed towards SP. What happened? I always liked them.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

sp is patenting electronic markers.

[sneakyhacker420]

absolutely nothing, they have yet to take action on anything besides threatening to TAKE action :rolleyes:


my impy will still pwn j00!

[MaGSkEr]

Wow that is low. One thing I've noticed about this industry, or am just ignorant to the logistics, is how laid back it is as far as modeling goes. When a marker comes out, all these after market companies jump all of its interchangable parts. It makes things interesting. But yea that is low, where can I read up on it?

[WARPED1]

"What is wrong with SP?"
Nothing.

[Grasshopper]

Try searching. I know theres at least a couple hundred topics on it. :p

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
absolutely nothing, they have yet to take action on anything besides threatening to TAKE action :rolleyes:


my impy will still pwn j00!

Taking legal action is more than absolutely nothing.

[FutureMagOwner]

ive dislike smart parts for a while so coming to the conclusion that they are jerks based on this lawsuit business wasnt a stretch for me.

i basically dislike them for their products mostly but i also dislike the gardners as people in general from the attitudes ive seen from them and the actions they take.

[E-mag-uy]

Originally posted by WARPED1
"What is wrong with SP?"
Nothing.

What is wrong with SP? um lets c they are robbing alll electro gun comnies, they sued icd and are suing suing angel, yep nothiing is right....

[Branchvillian]

The reason most people hate them is because other people they see hate them. Half the kids never bought SP stuff to begin with, so I'm not quite sure what there boycotting. As far as suits go, I have heard nothing, but hearsay about them actually bringing suit apon these companies. Don't bielieve everything you hear guys.

[spantol]

The search button is your best bet to get an in-depth answer, but here's the gist of it:

Back in '96, Smart Parts filed for and received several patents that covered the operating principles of their Shocker. Since then, as you're no doubt aware, tons of other markers have come out that use some sort of electronically-controlled firing process. This year, Smart Parts was able to file an "extension" to one of those '96 patents, essentially rewording it to cover the very idea of an electronically-controlled firing process. With that new and improved patent, they sued ICD for violating their newly-granted IP. The merit of the extended patent is questionable, and there's little reason to believe that SP will stop at ICD.

In short, they played fast and loose with the US patent process, and are in the process of screwing over more ethical manufacturers.

[WARPED1]

For gods sake, it hasn't done a thing to any company. ICD settled out of court, because by the letter of the law SP was in the right. This has not increased the price of ICD's guns, and it won't to WDP either.
And this boycott the AO zombies are doing will do nothing. Fine, you don't buy SP stuff, but for those that want a sweet new BKO, that puts money in SP's pocket.

[spantol]

Honestly, Warped1, is your last name Gardner? Every time this issue comes up, you act personally offended that anyone would dare question SP's actions. In that light, your references to the "AO zombies" have a distinct pot-kettle-black thing going for them.

Further, I can't fathom the logic behind you claim that this process hasn't harmed the target companies. I work for one of the largest law firms in the world, for the best IP practice out there. I know what a good IP attorney costs. SP's actions are forcing their prey to make very difficult decisions.

[WARPED1]

Please list to me how this SP business has affected you, like everyone seems to think it has...........

[spantol]

That's not the issue we were discussing, Warped. That type of misdirection might fly at PBNation, but you're in "AO Zombie" country now. You claimed SP's actions weren't harming any company. Are you retracting that claim?

As to how it's affected me personally, it has convinced me that Smart Parts products are not worth my money. I try to be an informed consumer, and I do not wish to hand my hard-earned money over to any entity whose actions I do not condone.

Further, I see no evidence that anyone is claiming that SP has harmed them personally. Most are claiming that SP is is harming the industry and the sport, or the institution of the sport, through unethical business practices. The consumer impact is a second-order effect of this, and its impact remains to be seen.




Originally posted by WARPED1
Please list to me how this SP business has affected you, like everyone seems to think it has...........

[hitech]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
they have yet to take action on anything besides threatening to TAKE action.

They most certainly have taken action. Filing a lawsuit is taking action. Winning that lawsuit is a result of taking action.

It seems to me that "someone" should sue them for fraudulently obtaining the patent "update". Leaving out information they know to be relevant seems like it qualifies as fraud to me. Then again, I'm not a patent attorney. ;)

[WARPED1]

Yes, no company has been significantly affected. ICD payed the fee and will make that back and more in less than a year, maybe a little more. The game will not change, none of the big name will go out of business. Who knows about small gun makers, but not many will care, as long as they can get thier Timmies and Angels.
Obviously WGP won't be affected, AGD might feel it, but if they learned how to market their cool products better, they wouldn't worry at all.
DYE and NPS and ICD have settled out of court, so they can carry on. I bet WDP folds, and AGD should too.
Maybe what SP is doing sucks for the "brotherhood" feeling of the sport, maybe you even think it's wrong..... but guess what? It doesn't matter. All who have complained fail to realize that by law, SP is well within thier rights. You don't have to like it, but you do have to deal with it. My suggestion is to just drop it and concentrate on good news, like getting Dick Clark going in the right direction for getting XBall televised. He had some good thiongs to say yesterday, bad ones too tho.

[felony]

there is something good with smart parts?

dan

[fcpchop]

wow, some of u r very ignorant, i swear u should have sence beat into u. umm sure they didn't do anything:rolleyes: i hate when u people say that, u act as nothing is happening when sp is riping paintball apart u people dont understand if people keep giving into Sp and signing contracts with them prices will rise that = bad! what they r doing is incredably f***ed up, Have u ever stopped and think about how tom could of patented many things but he didn't, as did many other people, do u know y??? because they put the greater good of the sport in front of their wallet, unlike SP who r power hunger fools who just want money and r going to kill the sport. We gotta boycott SP if not then it will be like we r saying it is ok to do what they r doing. and its not

[fcpchop]

hehehe they got the nicknames of the paintball NAZIS, and hitler and the nazis tried to take over europe the same way sp is tring to do it, the took smalls steps, a little change here and there, with sp it is a law suit here and there, and they work their way up until they get all control, hehehehehe and just like with the nazis, people knew what was happening but no one did ne thing about it, but not here, we gotta stop them in their tracks

[~WarpedRT#2~]

spantol, lay off Warped1, he has his opinions. I see tons of people over this board with "we hate nazis" in their sigs. Now if that isnt voicing their opinion EVERTIME THEY POST, then I dont know what is. He only says somehting about when he is confronted with it. It's not like he saying, "Yeah I like thos grips. Oh and I love Smart Parts."

Like I said before, I dont see how this will affect your normal play, and I have said that before. You wont notice anything different. Now if I start to see Bushmasters with a Crosshair logo on it, they have gone too far, but I dont think that will happen. In the end, all the mag fanatics have their RT Pros, and can still play, and still be able to keep up with high end electros.

Heres how I see it. Even if prices of guns go up, say $100, thats not really that much. People who spend over $1000 on a gun, and have several of them dont really care about an extra $100. Would it make a real difference if an Angel were $100 more? Not really, because they start out at $1200. People are now used to seeing such high prices on guns. The Adrenaline Angel was like $1700. If you spend that much, you had better not be a penny pincher when it comes to $100 more. If you were willing to pay $1700 opr even $1000, you sure have enough money to throw around.

More than any other company, I hope WDP comes out of this ok. I also like ICD.

[hitech]

Originally posted by ~WarpedRT#2~
...Even if prices of guns go up, say $100, thats not really that much.

I'm glad you don't think that is much. I think it is a lot. Regardless, I believe that SP gained their patent "update" fraudulently. That is enough for me to "hate" them. Also, waiting until the market is full of electronic markers that they cannot compete with is enough to make me "hate" them. But I guess it took them quite a few trys before they thought of leaving out vital information in there patent "update" request. That is enough to make me "hate" them.

They have done plenty already. And you know what, it's just beginning... :(

[Wc Keep]

i really could care less what sp does. i used several of their products and i like them very much. what they are doing has in no way effected me yet. and until it does i aint gonna stress.

[Spartan X]

To every one wondering what side to take..

Does any one know who Doc is? You knoe the airsmith that can make anything? Do you respect him? He has a couple articals on this subject, he puts it very well.

[xen_100]

Originally posted by ~WarpedRT#2~
Heres how I see it. Even if prices of guns go up, say $100, thats not really that much. People who spend over $1000 on a gun, and have several of them dont really care about an extra $100. Would it make a real difference if an Angel were $100 more? Not really, because they start out at $1200. People are now used to seeing such high prices on guns. The Adrenaline Angel was like $1700. If you spend that much, you had better not be a penny pincher when it comes to $100 more. If you were willing to pay $1700 opr even $1000, you sure have enough money to throw around.

More than any other company, I hope WDP comes out of this ok. I also like ICD.

that is a vey valid argument for $1000+ guns. what about spyder and tippmans? I realise, alot of people dont like them, but they outsell EVERYBODY else in volume. a $60 spyder that jumps to $160 overnight is a VERY big impact on the market.

to everybody that thinks that SP is not hurting the paintball market, maybe they aren't right this minute. but ICD sold out to NPS, DYE and NPS signed "agreements and settlements" with SP over this. this will not be absorbed by them, it will be passed along to the consmer. saying "I wont care until it effects me" will be too late. by then there is nothing you can do about it.

[hardr0ck68]

LOL their were issues LONG before the legal crap, i have been boycotting them ever since i tried to buy replacement parts for a max flow.
SP=tools
i will never own another one of their products, ever.

[PyRo]

Whats wrong with SP?
Damn corrupt patent lawyer is still alive, thats whats wrong.

[Sir_Brass]

the Feds made a mistake by not putting that corrupt patent lawyer in prison when he got caught the first time. now he's using his company (Smart Parts) to pull off an even bigger farce that'll just hurt us and make his pockets bigger.

that's enough for me to resolve to not put any of my hard earned money into his greedy pockets.


Oh, and if anyone has enough power and enough $$ to stare down smart parts, is BE since they just merged with a multi BILLION dollar sports equipment distributor (forgot the name at the moment). If anyone is going to challenge SP, it's going to be BE.

[hockaloogey]

i hate Smart Parts as much as the next guy, but it seems like the "boycott" didn't go too well. the guys i see trash talking it at my school or online are the same guys who show up w/ SP jerseys, markers, etc.

you can't really have just noticed this, its been going on ever since people realized what crap smart parts is:eek: