Jeremy Salm...Captain Team Aftershock [Archive]

cphilip

10-24-2003, 01:10 PM

I personaly have no use for him. But couldn't care less what teams wants to make him their Captain. I surely wouldn't. And no I don't think a year ban from one league was enough for what happened there. I seriously have major doubts about his basic character and do not expect that to change at all.

Thats just the way I feel.

-=Squid=-

10-24-2003, 01:12 PM

I am glad he back, but I cant help but wonder what the hell he was thinking when he pulled that stunt...

WARPED1

10-24-2003, 01:19 PM

Theres always major cheating at those events, he just got caught and they made him a scapegoat. Glad he's back, he did his time.

-=Squid=-

10-24-2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by WARPED1
Theres always major cheating at those events, he just got caught and they made him a scapegoat. Glad he's back, he did his time. You really think there is cheating of that magnitude at most events?

WARPED1

10-24-2003, 01:27 PM

I don't think there is, I know there is.
I've seen it, I've been cheated upon by things as bad.
10 years of tournaments has shown me.

cphilip

10-24-2003, 01:28 PM

BS! NO ONE HAS EVER BEFORE CHEATED TO ALTER THE GAME WHILE NOT EVEN IN THE GAME!!!!

That is way beyond wipeing and such. At least those guys are subject to judging and notice. And they are on the field. This was so absurdly a violation of the whole tournament itself that its rediculous to even try and claim he was a scapegoat. Not just one game may have been involved. This is so outrageous it deserves a much stronger condemnation than normal in game cheating does. And elaborate premeditated deliberate act of throwing the games from someone not even playing. It just saddens me that some of you want to defend this. I just cannot. But so be it. Far as I know he countinued to play ball after that. Still does it seems.

Heck Pete Rose was banned forever for less. And so were the Black Sox.

cphilip

10-24-2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by WARPED1
I don't think there is, I know there is.
I've seen it, I've been cheated upon by things as bad.
10 years of tournaments has shown me.

That is so. It saddens me also. But for this case is totaly different thing... He was not on the field at all!

-=Squid=-

10-24-2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by cphilip
BS! NO ONE HAS EVER BEFORE CHEATED TO ALTER THE GAME WHILE NOT EVEN IN THE GAME!!!!

That is way beyond wipeing and such. At least those guys are subject to judging and notice. And they are on the field. This was so absurdly a violation of the whole tournament itself that its rediculous to even try and claim he was a scapegoat. Not just one game may have been involved. This is so outrageous it deserves a much stronger condemnation than normal in game cheating does. And elaborate premeditated deliberate act of throwing the games from someone not even playing. It just saddens me that some of you want to defend this. I just cannot. But so be it. Far as I know he countinued to play ball after that. Still does it seems.

Heck Pete Rose was banned forever for less. And so were the Black Sox. Thanks.

RetroEclipseMan

10-24-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
You really think there is cheating of that magnitude at most events?

Yeah, no kidding. I don't think I've ever heard of anything of that magnatude going down before. He did serve his time so therefore I don't see any reason for him not to be able to play. Do I think that was long enough for what he did, of course not but that's just the way things go.

cphilip

10-24-2003, 01:31 PM

hehe....I get all worked up over this one... Sorry... But this incident still sticks in my craw. :(

dre1919

10-24-2003, 01:54 PM

I don't think he should be made a captain of any team, or even allowed back. That's BS. As a captain, he has a responsibility to set the example and he set a very poor one. I mean, c'mon...it's not like he experienced momentary insanity. The things he did required a very deliberate and time involved set up. At any point during his actions he could have stopped and said "Wait a minute...this is wrong. Wrong for me, my career, the sport, and the kids who may look up to me." He didn't...and that tells you all you need to know about his character. I agree, cheating happens at damn near all events...but not like that. That was waaaaay over the line. Actually, his whole stunt was so over the top it was stupefying. I couldn't believe somebody would actually do something that boneheaded. A year ban was merely a slap on the wrist, and letting him play in another league is further proof that as a whole, pro leagues aren't that interested in propagating a fair league.

I believe in second chances, because everyone screws up. But Jeremy knew full well what he was doing, and he should have to reflect on those actions for a lot longer than one season. That's crap. And when and if he came back, he should have to start from the ground up...and not just slide back in as an Avalanche captain. Salm has a lot to proove as a "professional" athlete to me. Personally, it offends me when I feel I'm a good paintball athlete and would love the chance to play pro just once. Here's an idiot doing it full time and he goes and throws it away like he did? I'd like to knock him out for that. Hell, let me be the captain of Avalanche...at least they wouldn't have to worry about me being off in the woods sniping people.

LaW

10-24-2003, 02:36 PM

Yup just because I have no problem with it I am just as disgusted with this event as cphilip is. It really sticks in my head.

adam shannon

10-24-2003, 02:41 PM

served his time? paid his debt to paintball? bs like what that guy did hurt paintball for years to come...and he didnt serve any time or repay any debt. for the last year hes been involved with coaching teams and playing tournaments outside the nppl. he didnt loose anything or pay any real price for what he did. avalanch was swollen with big heads and furry feet and about to break up anyway.

the problem with society today is that if somebody has a money making skill...that is making money for others in addition to himself, he will be "forgiven" for the sake of ratings or money.

randy moss beat a kid into a coma while in HS...all it cost him was going a bit lower in the draft out of a lower tier college, now hes everybodies favorite wide receiver and makes just as much $ as if he wasnt a felon.

if ray caruth was paroled today he would be playing for some team who would pick him up at a bargain contract price for the first year just to get a good player for cheap.

a HS near me had 2 cheerleaders and the star football player cought by the police drinking under age. the 2 girls were kicked off the cheer squad..the player was carried onto the field that friday and forgiven because they couldnt win without him. then they fired the cheerleader coach because she went on tv over the treatment of the girls. all because they needed the player to win!

if OJ could still run he would have a job tomorrow!

Sir_Brass

10-24-2003, 02:54 PM

and you know what, that is sadly the state of things today. Still doesn't change the fact that was Salm did was wrong. ALL professional pball players CAUGHT cheating in game or even in game but off the field (like Salm) should be cashiered from pro paintball leagues for LIFE. What salm got was something that should've been administered to someone on an amature tourney team.

A PROFESSIONAL is partly defined in that he/she has to adhere to an ethical standard or face SEVERE repercussions. If I, when I enter the engineering world, compromise my ethics just to cut costs on a project for whoever I work for, then I could face never being allowed to work as an engineer ever again because I was found guilty on ethics violations.

In the professional world, ethics violations face severe consequences. The SAME should be in professional sports. A PROFESSION cannot endure if it does not hold itself and those who claim it to some kind of rigid ethical standard. In professional sports this is defined in sportsmanship. If you seriously compromise your sportsmanship by cheating, then you have violated the ETHICS of your profession. You DESERVE to be booted from that profession for LIFE.

That should have been the case with ALL pro sports players who have cheated. THis not only includes Salm and LaSoya, but those in other sports as well.

fire1811

10-24-2003, 03:12 PM

hmm cheating is cheating either way
if you wipe you cheated. snipin in the woods..cheated
more of a shocker oh yeah but still just a rule broken

he broke the rules was punished

its the same as half the ppl on AO who get there 3,5 day, month, whatever time ban. they broke a RULE and did there time and are back.

oh yeah
i in NO WAY am saying what he did was right, it was beyond stupid but he took his punishment and is now back.

Konigballer

10-24-2003, 03:14 PM

"if OJ could still run he'd have a job tommorow" <---thats great, lol:p

fire1811

10-24-2003, 03:14 PM

oh i can see it now this thread is going to get ugly :p

tony3

10-24-2003, 03:15 PM

Well salm is a great paintballer, and made a mistake, you guys are acting like he shot the president.

p.s. the announcer during chicago open was ripping on salm so much, it was so funny

pito189

10-24-2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by dre1919
And when and if he came back, he should have to start from the ground up...and not just slide back in as an Avalanche captain.

He doesn't play for Avalanche, he plays for Aftershock. He was never the captain of Avalanche he was the field captain when they were good, as soon as Ed Poormen stepped in they started losing.

Thats my understanding anyways.

1stdeadeye

10-24-2003, 03:34 PM

Keep your eyes on the woods!

trxtr

10-24-2003, 03:38 PM

and they're the reason paintball isn't going main stream anytime soon.

pito189

10-24-2003, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by trxtr
and they're the reason paintball isn't going main stream anytime soon.

HAHA, if you think that is the only reason, then you sadden me. :rolleyes:

Python14

10-24-2003, 03:48 PM

Paintball doesn't punish cheaters enough. If I cheat in college, I get kicked out. If I were to cheat at work, I would get fire, or possibly arrested. If I cheat at paintball I get a slap on the wrist, then a captains position a year later?

Until now, I liked Aftershock....until now.:mad:

krafty

10-24-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by cphilip
Heck Pete Rose was banned forever for less. And so were the Black Sox.

This illustrates a good point... MLB is one all-inclusive organization. A ban stands pretty much everywhere since it's the only league, and the minors are an extension of that league.

With paintball, you've got the PSP, NPPL, NXL, and lots of little regional leagues. There's no cooperation between them, so banning someone in one league does nothing about their eligibility in the others.

Until there is one governing body within the paintball community, things like this are still going to happen. If the NXL, NPPL and PSP would only agree to abide by the other's decisions in situations like this I would stand and applaud... but it isn't going to happen. I'd probably actually consider watching Xball once in a while if they had the balls to tell Salm where to go.

The Pete Rose comparison is good too... You have cheaters in baseball. Pitchers carry sandpaper or vasoline to alter the baseball. Batters cork bats. I liken this to wiping a hit in paintball. It may or may not affect the outcome of a game. Rose bet on baseball. He MAY have bet on his OWN team. That may have led him to make decisions that altered many games throughout a season in order to fit with his bets. Who knows how many games Salm tarnished on that day? We'll never know, just like we'll never really know about Rose.

Salm deserves to go and not come back in any professional league. He's forefited his privelige to earn a living at paintball. Period.

cphilip

10-24-2003, 04:54 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fire1811
hmm cheating is cheating either way
if you wipe you cheated. snipin in the woods..cheated
more of a shocker oh yeah but still just a rule broken

Ok so under your set of standards...Petite theft is the same as murder. They both are "like against the rules man".

he broke the rules was punished

Was he now? In preportion to his actions? I think hardly!

its the same as half the ppl on AO who get there 3,5 day, month, whatever time ban. they broke a RULE and did there time and are back.

Ah well then why do some do some thing so greivious to get permanently banned here? Hmmm... I think you just finished off destroying the point you were trying to make!

oh yeah
i in NO WAY am saying what he did was right, it was beyond stupid but he took his punishment and is now back.

Oh good you just think is was just not that big a deal is what your saying...Just stupidity. So now he has somehow become smarter all the sudden? What degree did he obtain? What did he actually show us that makes us think he now has better judgement? Why would we give him the benefit of the doubt just because time went by? Far as I can tell he did not recieve punishment that NEAR even befitted his actions. He continued to play elsewhere and layed low until he felt he would just go back to normal. And what punishment did he receive? You can't play in these few areas...but you can go ahead and go about your life other than that. Slap on the wrist.

UltimatePaintballer

10-24-2003, 05:06 PM

what happened to jeremy salm, anything like the ed poorman incident:confused:

fire1811

10-24-2003, 05:09 PM

ahh all very good points cphilip
but it doesnt change the fact he IS back and nothing we say here will change it.

i really do hope that if something as drastic as that incident happens again that they will have a better punishment. can they make him quit paintball completly and get all the leagues to ban him. i truly doubt it.
it would be nice if they could all come to an agreement like that but there is always the "good ole boy" system where they will take care of the ppl they like

Sir_Brass

10-24-2003, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by tony3
Well salm is a great paintballer, and made a mistake, you guys are acting like he shot the president.

p.s. the announcer during chicago open was ripping on salm so much, it was so funny

He didn't make a 'mistake'. He MEANT to cheat. It was deliberate and intentional and he knew it was cheating. He's a professional and should've been held to professional standards. As the standards go up in expectations (not on skill or whatever, but rather in character and ethical behavior), the harsher the consequences should be. A one year ban is fine for an amature who does something like that, but Salm was a professional. He should be banned. Like I said, a professional who violates his profession's ethics should no longer be allowed into that profession ever again, let alone be let back in and allowed to captain a team.

Salm was given a slap on the wrist and some of you seem to think that he was treated appropriately.

Appropriate punishment would've been public condemnation of Salm's actions by the entire team, and to ban Salm from playing professional paintball for the rest of his life.

As others have pointed out, players in other professional sports have been appropriately banned for life from their sport for so-called 'lesser' violations.

If it were up to me, a pro paintballer would be indefinately suspended from all leagues for simply wiping, and immediately banned from playing paintball if he ever did something like what Salm did.

UltimatePaintballer

10-24-2003, 05:48 PM

but what did he do?!?!?!?!?:confused:

pito189

10-24-2003, 05:49 PM

I just thought that it's pretty interesting that Aftershock still has all it's sponsors after that decision.

10-24-2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by krafty

Who knows how many games Salm tarnished on that day?

ISnt that the scary part. I really wish that someday we could have true proffesionalism in paintball, BTW that all starts with the manufactures. One big reason why you dont see more Pros using AKA rigs

There is a complete lack of proffesional skills in paintball. This is only one of many reasons paintball is not ready for TV.

UltimatePaintballer

10-24-2003, 05:52 PM

omg, what happened to salm and the aka regs/rigs:confused: :confused: :confused:

Python14

10-24-2003, 06:09 PM

At the 2k2 NPPL World Cup, he called sick one morning and thus did not play. Ed filled his place on the field, whilst Jeremy "The Sniper" Salm did other things....
Before the Avalanche .vs. GZ Black game(or was it gold?), Jeremy borrowed a matrix from I believe Lockout, and put on a bunch of black clothes. During the game, jeremy sat in the woods behind the field and shot out several Groundzero players. Well, Mr. U(Pete Utshing of GZ) noticed some movement in the woods and took off running. Jeremy saw Pete and began to run for his life(LOL...Mr. U eats kindergardeners for brunch he's so powerful). Jeremy got caught pretty quickly and admitted to everything.

The game was called and everyone who had played avalanche before that game recieve 96 points and everyone after got a By-game.

Avalanche was thrown from the tournament....to much shame I might add.

And Jeremy was banned from the NPPL for two years.

Short and skinny...Jeremy Salm shot players from off the field like a Vietnamese Sniper in Nam. He cheated like you've never seen cheating before..Jeremy Salm is a douche.

Automaggot68

10-24-2003, 06:15 PM

I couldn't have said it any better, Python. Amen.

UltimatePaintballer

10-24-2003, 06:15 PM

lol oh i heard about that, i thought ed poorman did the shooting, thats why chris lasoya quick avalanche

deadeye9

10-24-2003, 06:15 PM

For those, like me, who didn't know the story:

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/paintball-terrorists.htm

Jack & Coke

10-24-2003, 07:05 PM

It would not surprize me if the majority of successful tournament ballers are chronic expert cheaters.

I wonder if the skills and abilities to not get caught cheating rank just as high as snap shooting, superman dives, and extremely animated hissy fits.

Python14

10-24-2003, 07:16 PM

LOL....Ole Gloryboy quit after the event, along with most of 'lanche because well, the team was done for.

I think Lasoya was a little jealous, someone had cheated worse and gotten more attention than he usually does.

abaez

10-24-2003, 07:23 PM

Uhh if that story is true about him in the woods he should not play at the pro level anymore period.

SyntaxError

10-24-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by cphilip
BS! NO ONE HAS EVER BEFORE CHEATED TO ALTER THE GAME WHILE NOT EVEN IN THE GAME!!!!

LOL!

Whatever dude, look at Dynasty having every event rigged for them, I'd seriously love someone to try and defend their last fiasco where the Naughty Dogs shot em and hung the flag only to be told that the game never started? What is this, like 1984? I don't think so.

I've had spectators coach me during games, thats altering the game without being in.

Refs cheat for teams all the time. PRO reffing is an absolute joke, its funded by WDP and guess what, they sponsor Dynasty. Also more than half of the NPPL refs aren't PRO refs, I knew more than half of the refs at NPPL NJ and I doubt they took any reffing course.

And finally, considering Ed Poorman is a whiney stoner punk who orchestrated the whole incident cuz he was fed up with Salm and Lasoya and realized that they would leave to start what is now Miami Effect, I say good luck Salm, cap some punks.

EDIT: And yes I realize that I'm talking about a PSP event in terms of the Dynasty/Dogs game, and PRO refs arent involved, but it isn't hard to influence reffing, hell I've had refs wipe me off during games, I won't lie.

LaW

10-24-2003, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by abaez
Uhh if that story is true about him in the woods he should not play at the pro level anymore period.

That story is old and true.... i dont see how you can question it :)

LaW

10-24-2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by SyntaxError

LOL!

Whatever dude, look at Dynasty having every event rigged for them, I'd seriously love someone to try and defend their last fiasco where the Naughty Dogs shot em and hung the flag only to be told that the game never started? What is this, like 1984? I don't think so.

I've had spectators coach me during games, thats altering the game without being in.

Refs cheat for teams all the time. PRO reffing is an absolute joke, its funded by WDP and guess what, they sponsor Dynasty. Also more than half of the NPPL refs aren't PRO refs, I knew more than half of the refs at NPPL NJ and I doubt they took any reffing course.

And finally, considering Ed Poorman is a whiney stoner punk who orchestrated the whole incident cuz he was fed up with Salm and Lasoya and realized that they would leave to start what is now Miami Effect, I say good luck Salm, cap some punks.

EDIT: And yes I realize that I'm talking about a PSP event in terms of the Dynasty/Dogs game, and PRO refs arent involved, but it isn't hard to influence reffing, hell I've had refs wipe me off during games, I won't lie.

You must be one of those people that buy into anything people will throw at you... I love how people think everything is rigged.. wow...

50 cal

10-24-2003, 08:49 PM

Sure, let him play. People know what happened. He will just be under closer scrutiny. Maybe, just maybe it will clean up the wholesale rule bending (cheating) that happens.

So, yeah, let him play. It's not like p-ball will ever be a mainstream pro sport. (donning Nomex suit)

demonguy8

10-24-2003, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by cphilip

Oh good you just think is was just not that big a deal is what your saying...Just stupidity. So now he has somehow become smarter all the sudden? What degree did he obtain? What did he actually show us that makes us think he now has better judgement? Why would we give him the benefit of the doubt just because time went by? Far as I can tell he did not recieve punishment that NEAR even befitted his actions. He continued to play elsewhere and layed low until he felt he would just go back to normal. And what punishment did he receive? You can't play in these few areas...but you can go ahead and go about your life other than that. Slap on the wrist. [/B]

Well unfortunatly YOU (or anyone else here) arent in a position to judge the penalty for his actions... The LEAGUE however was, and did to the extent of their power (as Salm was NOT a CONTRACTED PROFESSIONAL player for the LEAGUE banning was the worst they can do to him). Im sure they could have banned him for life but does it matter? Hes not even playing for that league anymore!

On a personal (read opinionated) note I think the problem wasnt really all salm. I VERY strongly doubt the rest of lanche was completely unaware. Furthermore, the lax attitude in general the league (now leagues) had/ still has on ANY FORM of cheating is sickening(to the point where the Salm incident was just a matter of time), along with Referee contamination and the joys of partnerships that just dont seem right, (aka WDP with PRO refs)
Tho hopefully with the advent of CONTRACTED PLAYERS (NXL) and TV cameras watching people wipe, Paintball can take steps forward to combat its corruption and finally become the sport it was always meant to be.

cphilip

10-24-2003, 11:33 PM

I am in a position to judge as much as any man would be in a position to judge someones actions that are so obvious. And I realy have no idea why you even talk about judging. It makes no point what so ever. He was caught red handed and dragged out in front of everyone. Judging? Me Judging? Whats that got to do with the price if tea in china? A rats a rat no matter what.

ERut

10-24-2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Python14
Jeremy Salm is a douche.

agreed

Originally posted by UltimatePaintballer
thats why chris lasoya quick avalanche

Lasoya's hardly a class act... The problem of paintball is that cheating's just too easy.

If I were in charge he would never play pro in any league again.

cphilip

10-24-2003, 11:52 PM

...well the problem with paintball is that we do not have our act together under one governing body that would deal with things like this and make is stick the whole world round. Thats the problem. Once people know you banned from paintball EVERYWHERE if you do it then it becomes more of a deterent. Right now we have little big stick to weld over these guys. They gonna ruin paintball with this kind of thing if we cannot shake this stuff out soon and get our act together.

10-25-2003, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by cphilip
...well the problem with paintball is that we do not have our act together under one governing body that would deal with things like this and make is stick the whole world round. Thats the problem.

I think the even larger problem is how the uber pb gonverning body is formed. Let me guess it will be mostly industry people who for the most part are conserned about making money.

The problem with paintball is that all invovled need to humble themselves and understand where the sport came from and where it could go.

Do you think if we had this body of folks now that this SP crap would have ever started?

adam shannon

10-25-2003, 12:02 AM

the players will never be brought into line as long as greedy promoters dont care about cheating only ringing big $ out of the talent in the sport. so even if one player is a detriment to the sport the next league is only more than willing to take him. the way paintball is run as a business at the tourney level makes don king and enron look like mr rogers and betty crocker.

cphilip

10-25-2003, 12:05 AM

Well I agree that the mess is not easly solved and no I don't think the industry itself should govern. The players should. But with industry support and involvment. The "mess" is just that. No one is in charge. Anyone who wants to be and talks a good story is. Thats not "righteous".

adam shannon

10-25-2003, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Python14
Jeremy Salm is a douche.

actually thats a compliment. a douche is a usefull item designed to clean the unmentionable. salm is more like a "scum bag". anybody know the actual meaning of that term.

Jack & Coke

10-25-2003, 12:28 AM

1. Raise the speed limit to 315 fps
2. Players may only wear speedos and mask.

Don't have to worry about wiping, just look for the welts...

http://www.multisports.com/newspics/1034548531__resize-Speedos.jpg

:eek:

shartley

10-25-2003, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by gtrsi
There is a complete lack of proffesional skills in paintball. This is only one of many reasons paintball is not ready for TV. [/B]
I agree. But that is why it is being brought to TV in a larger way by OUTSIDE of paintball (Clark). I think this is a VERY good thing.

Originally posted by deadeye9
For those, like me, who didn't know the story:

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/paintball-terrorists.htm
Good article. And it hits on many points that are keeping paintball from being much more than it is.

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
It would not surprize me if the majority of successful tournament ballers are chronic expert cheaters.

I wonder if the skills and abilities to not get caught cheating rank just as high as snap shooting, superman dives, and extremely animated hissy fits.
And this is unfortunate. Can you imagine if any other “professional sport” was allowed to be like this?

OfficerGoat

10-25-2003, 08:36 AM

Racing... take Formula ford for example.... its very common practice to run cheater cams in the cars. (Its to the point that Lunati has a specific part number for these) Sure its just a few extra hp.... but that can make the difference.

I bring up racing because its also a very technological sport .. the goal is very simple yet the rules can be very finite and complicated. The same applies to paintball. The top series in racing have to have VERY high quality of "Reffing" in order to keep cheating to a minimum. Look at the lenghts that Nascar goes to in order to keep the cars even. We need whatever televised paintball org to go to these lengths. If a player gets caught with a tweaked gun that dosnt fit they get a chance to fix it and then they get disqualified for the day. Being strict like this will bring things back in order very fast.

Also since there will be cameras envloved we need to have folks looking at the footage for cheating. If you get caught cheating during the last game you go a man or two down the next. If the odds of getting caught go up then the temptation to cheat will go down, especialy if it will hurt you down the road.

All of this means that there HAS to be impartial reffing, which means that the event needs its own reffs not sponsord by a team or a major sponsor for a team.

So far as rough play goes... if its going to be televised and you want more than just ballers to watch... it has to be rough.. rough is exciting and thats what people like to watch. Thats why I like the Nascar Truck searies.... More crashes. :)