LOL, check this out. PB Fight during X-ball game

[FortySix&2]

Check it out. Lane Wright from the PSP went on the field to ask a camerman to leave the field. (You can't film X-Ball on the field during a match, just from the side lines. Plus he had no media pass anyways) Lane went out to ask him to leave and the guy came up swinging when Lane went to take his camera away because the guy refused to leave. The refs tackled them both when the goggles came flying off. The players had no clue as to what was going on. They finished the point and then started *****ing about the refs fighting. It's kinda funny. Anyways, go to

http://www.720video.com/images/2003/WC03/Rogue_Video.wmv

"The ref's aren't even watching the game! The ref's are wrestling on the field! What's up with that?"

"I paid $2000 for that? WTF!?"


Enjoy!

[tony3]

hahahahahah, thats great

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

thats just some messed up stuff, i would have hated to play in that game.

[yeahthatsme]

a few things...
1. if he didnt have a pass why was he let on the field?
2. if filming on the field isnt allowed then why did the refs let him on the field?
3. if goggles came off why was the game allowed to continue?

IMHO they should have stopped the game when they realised the guy shouldnt be on the field.

[Lone Wolf2]

i woulda started shootin the refs :p :p :p

[cphilip]

Originally posted by yeahthatsme
a few things...
1. if he didnt have a pass why was he let on the field?
2. if filming on the field isnt allowed then why did the refs let him on the field?
3. if goggles came off why was the game allowed to continue?

IMHO they should have stopped the game when they realised the guy shouldnt be on the field.

Those are all DAM good questions.

And if he was on the field before it started then why was it even started. And certainly should have stopped BEFORE the refs removed him. Once he was spotted it should have stopped right then. Not removing him while play was going on. I suspect its just never come up before so they just didn't know how to deal with it. I betcha there is a procedure and rule in place for it next time!

And I have seen Photographers on the field in X Ball games.

Also it looks to me that the Ref is having to be restraingned more at the end than the rouge Photographer. Who is that guy anyway?

[yeahthatsme]

i think the issue was that your not allowed to be ON the field, sidelines are ok. or maybe it was that he was video-taping and thats not allowed...

[elpimpo]

i bet the refs didnt know that he shouldnt be. like they didnt know about lane not alowing that. then when lane saw he was on there he tried to get him off asap. also what teams r playing

[MrMag]

that was legacy, and the other team i cant tell

[68Classic]

i bet the refs didnt know that he shouldnt be Thats the only reasonable explination. If they couldnt tell they were cameramen, they shouldnt be refs. Just sounds like a lot of miscommunication to me.

[G-Rock]

You know, all I got to say is the ref's did the right thing by tackling the people as they lost the goggles.

That is all we need, someone with their eyes shot out in Xball right on the verge of it going on tv.

I have reffed everything from tourneys to big games. I have been a head ref, and the first thing I have told my refs is I dont care who they are, if their goggles come off, tackle them and cover those eyes, bury their face in your chest or the ground, and once you get them down start screaming to stop the game.

Now at this past Craig Village, we ran an alamo game. In this game we had one 2 story building with 30 people deefending it, and close to 180 people attacking it. I had 2 refs upstairs. In the heat of the attack, the whole first floor was full of the attacking team trying to get up on flight of stairs. A defender upstairs goggles came off, and one of the refs threw himself on the guy, and coverd him until the end of the game. Now the reason for covering him till the end of the game was because it was a wooden building, and you had close to 150 people shooting it up, you couldnt hear anything, not even the ref yelling. Almost like in the video. You cant hear the refs at all till the shooting stops.

The refs did the right job on the field. They protected the individuals. Reffing involves alot more then upholding the rules, it is also upholding safety. That ref was on top of it, he was paying attention to the game and then when he saw the mask off he was on it. Great reffing if I ever saw it.

Chris Geiger

[KornKamp02]

wow, they should have stopped the game as soon as they spotted him.

[ramennoodles]

man that was some messed up stuff, i think lane had the right intentions though.

[G-Rock]

Originally posted by cphilip
Also it looks to me that the Ref is having to be restraingned more at the end than the rouge Photographer. Who is that guy anyway?

I thought the same thing cphilip the first time i saw it, but then i watched it again and the guy they are retrainging in end is Lane Wright. it is confusing because he is wearing a red shirt like the refs.

chris geiger

[elpimpo]

Originally posted by KornKamp02
wow, they should have stopped the game as soon as they spotted him.

do you know how pissed off the teams would get if you just stopped it. i know i would try and kill the refs

[ICOM]

interesting...Refs should of knew better but we dont know the whole story so....

[KornKamp02]

Originally posted by elpimpo


do you know how pissed off the teams would get if you just stopped it. i know i would try and kill the refs that still doesn't mean you should just let 5 or so guys laying on the field with their masks off so some guys can play 1 game. I know I wouldn't be mad if that happened while I was playing. And, if yopu try and kill osmeone let it be the cameraman, the refs were doin there job. refs don't get enough respect.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by G-Rock


I thought the same thing cphilip the first time i saw it, but then i watched it again and the guy they are retrainging in end is Lane Wright. it is confusing because he is wearing a red shirt like the refs.

chris geiger

But he is not the Photographer? I am confused. Course he had a right to be pissed if the Photographer was swinging at him.

I realize the players would have been pissed but you could have stopped it and started the whole game over. And there is a general stoppage rule that freezes the game in most sets of rules. When goggles come off then the game and all shooting must stop though. If it can be done.

[swat150]

Well at least the refs did somthin right, by covering the 2 guy's faces up so they wouldnt get hit in the eyes or temples

[ß?µ£ §mµ®ƒ]

Hmm the Crowd dosent help either, they just chant fight.

[G-Rock]

Originally posted by cphilip


But he is not the Photographer? I am confused. Course he had a right to be pissed if the Photographer was swinging at him.

Teh guy in teh white was the photographer, and guy they are retraining is Lane. It looks like to me that lane was trying to talk to him more, maybe heatedly, and the refs were restrainging him to let it die down and all.

chris

[Josh2Xtremes]

It's really pretty simple stuff if you examine the facts. Lane had every right to ask the videographer to leave, Lane was the duly appointed representative of the PSP on the field. While still photography is allowed on all fields at the PSP's events, the rights to videotape the events has been sold to certain companies and certain entities only. All others are not allowed to film games. All the years I've been a photographer attending NPPL, PSP, etc... events I've been asked for a press pass a handful of times total. They simply aren't taken seriously. The referees don't consider it their jobs to check press passes and that's probably true, and most people off the street believe themselves to be paintball photographers who have a right to go anywhere and do anything they like, like this clown, who has given my entire profession and the professionals within it a bad name. If the guy wanted to come up swinging after he was essentially caught doing something he wasn't allowed to be doing, that's his business, but I for one applaud Lane for returning the favor and I hope charges were pressed. Oh and um...go refs! :D

[cphilip]

I highly agree Mr Silverman.

[elpimpo]

Originally posted by KornKamp02
that still doesn't mean you should just let 5 or so guys laying on the field with their masks off so some guys can play 1 game. I know I wouldn't be mad if that happened while I was playing. And, if yopu try and kill osmeone let it be the cameraman, the refs were doin there job. refs don't get enough respect.
you pay over a grand to play a tourney and we'll see if your thoughts change. if it was down to like a 3 on 1 and your team had three and they stop the game you just lost a point and the next game the other team could go out and smoke you. i think they did the right thing. they made sure noone got hurt.

[Josh2Xtremes]

Thank you very much Mr. Awesome moderator type guy.

[yeahthatsme]

Originally posted by elpimpo

you pay over a grand to play a tourney and we'll see if your thoughts change. if it was down to like a 3 on 1 and your team had three and they stop the game you just lost a point and the next game the other team could go out and smoke you. i think they did the right thing. they made sure noone got hurt.

honestly i doubt those teams payed entry, thats what sponsors are for.

honestly, i think its the ref's fault. they should be checking passes and they should know the rules. its a PROFESSIONAL league. if the ref's dont know the rules then they shouldnt be on the field. plus the game should have been over the second the fight broke out.

edited for spelling, i type too fast....

[GT]

Originally posted by yeahthatsme
a few things...
1. if he didnt have a pass why was he let on the field?
2. if filming on the field isnt allowed then why did the refs let him on the field?
3. if goggles came off why was the game allowed to continue?

IMHO they should have stopped the game when they realised the guy shouldnt be on the field.

Like I have said a million times paintball is not even near TV professionalism. Are we really much more than a hobby?

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Josh2Xtremes
Thank you very much Mr. Awesome moderator type guy.

Oh and Josh... get your arse down here to AO day SE Nov 22nd. I spring for your dinner and maybe put you up in the camper at the field?

[ubooze]

I agree with G-Rock!!! Those refs did a damn good job of maing sure those two people didn't get their eyes shot out. The question of why and how he got on the field arises..... and why didn't anyone do anything. Also, trying to take the camera from the guy isn't too nice, I think it could have been handeled more appropriately. I was shocked by how well the refs reacted to the situation and all, they did an awesome job.

[KornKamp02]

Originally posted by elpimpo

you pay over a grand to play a tourney and we'll see if your thoughts change. if it was down to like a 3 on 1 and your team had three and they stop the game you just lost a point and the next game the other team could go out and smoke you. i think they did the right thing. they made sure noone got hurt. i don't think they would end the game I think they would start it over, and the fee is what sponsors are for. ;)

[dinger]

/me saves that vid

lmao! thats one funny fiasco! LOL


i love how the one guy was complaining "the refs aren't even watching the game!"

lol goodstuff :D

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by gtrsi
Are we really much more than a hobby? Of course.

[G-Rock]

Originally posted by ubooze
I agree with G-Rock!!!

Oh my, finally someone agrees with me...hehehe.

chris geiger

[shartley]

I read all comments, and THEN watched the clip.

To be honest, I was NOT expecting to see what I did. I was expecting to see something that would insight me to post a mini-rant… but you know what? That was NOTHING.

The Refs took what I thought to be reasonable steps. The guy on the field was approached by ONE ref. There was a conversation. The Ref was about to leave, but the guy stayed on the field. Then it became a real problem, where the video guy assaulted the ref. Then the ref tried to restrain the other guy and other refs came to help.

There was not “wrestling” on the field. The refs were simply trying to cover up and subdue the guy who had no business being on the field.

Yes, charges should be filed.

And as for the comments shouted by the crowd about “I paid $2000 for this”… Get a clue. Safety of the spectators, players, and even those who are not where they are suppose to be come FIRST. THEN it is the game. You can always play the game over (maybe with different results, but such is life) but you can’t re-play a lost eye.

Where was Security? I agree that Refs should not be responsible for everything, and there should be security making sure only the authorized personnel are on the fields…. Like with any other professional sport. Then, when the ref sees that an unauthorized person is on the field, they STOP the game.. PERIOD. And then Security would come in and escort them off the field.

But chances are, since all personnel on the field would have to be cleared in the first place, this would not have happened… unless he crawled under a net.

I don’t think this hurt Paintball’s image one bit. I have seen similar things in all professional sports. The Refs actually handled the situation rather quickly. As for he crowd… bah, you can’t control what they “chant”, or say.

[Thordic]

Bleh, for some reason 720Video is blocked at work, I'll have to wait till I get home :(

[-=Squid=-]

See, im having trouble justifying either sides actions. The ref goes and tries to rip his camera out of his hands, which would anger me beyond control, but then rather than letting go the other guy swings a punch.

[Mango]

Someone who has no right being on the field in the first place and who does not leave when told to do so should have thier camera taken. What right does he have to fight about it? None. I agree 100% with the refs actions. I think they did a great job.

[shartley]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
See, im having trouble justifying either sides actions. The ref goes and tries to rip his camera out of his hands, which would anger me beyond control, but then rather than letting go the other guy swings a punch.
If the guy was not authorized to be there, but was, it is a problem. If he was not authorized to be taking video of the event, and was, it is a problem.

This is why I said Security should handle this situation, not the Refs (who are in charge of enforcing the “Rules of the Game”, not “the rules of the event"). Refs should avoid any and all physical contact with both spectators AND players, unless it is a safety issue, or preventing players from assaulting each other.

This is clearly an issue of both Safety AND one of unauthorized videoing and being in a place he was not suppose to be. The Refs should have called a stop to the game immediately (IMHO) and then had Security take care of the situation…. That is how any other sport would have handled it (at the professional levels). He should have been escorted off the field and into a private setting (building/tent) and THEN the situation taken care of about the video camera and tape.

I say this is a live and learn situation. I don’t think anyone involved was probably trained for this, or even considered it. Maybe it will help prevent this from happening again? But again, all and all, I feel that those involved didn’t do too bad, and acted pretty quickly, and within reason.

I don’t know what their standard operating procedure is for this type of thing, but I bet they are reevaluating it in any case.

[manike]

Lane is part of security. In fact you could say he is head of it, since he is responsible for most of the PSP organisation type stuff.

But there aren't bouncers on each field, and you can hardly expect to need them to tell a camera man (who had been told previously) not to film. The idiot just shouldn't have been there. Any one who has taken photographs or filmed a large event knows the basic rules about being on field. He especially should have known better after being told previously that he couldn't do what he was doing.

The game was between Storm and Legacy, Storm won that point, but it was reset.

The Camera man was from DYE and was there filming Legacy.

Storm losing that point due to the camera man from Dye filming legacy (A Dye Team) meant that the game drew level and Legacy just won it in time... If the point had stood or the camera man hadn't been braking the rules to film Legacy then the result probably would have been different. :(

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike
Lane is part of security. In fact you could say he is head of it, since he is responsible for most of the PSP organisation type stuff.

But there aren't bouncers on each field, and you can hardly expect to need them to tell a camera man (who had been told previously) not to film. The idiot just shouldn't have been there. Any one who has taken photographs or filmed a large event knows the basic rules about being on field. He especially should have known better after being told previously that he couldn't do what he was doing.

The game was between Storm and Legacy, Storm won that point, but it was reset.

The Camera man was from DYE and was there filming Legacy.

Storm losing that point due to the camera man from Dye filming legacy (A Dye Team) meant that the game drew level and Legacy just won it in time... If the point had stood or the camera man hadn't been braking the rules to film Legacy then the result probably would have been different. :(
Okay, thanks for clearing that up… so with that said, maybe the head of security should get some Security Consultations from people who actually do it for a living. And if he does, then maybe he is not up to date on the standard procedures for handling a situation like this? I don’t know.

Like I said, stopping the game, escorting the person off the field and to a private area out of the view of the general public, and THEN taking care of the actual camera issue would have most likely not caused such a scene. And that is pretty much standard procedure for this type of situation.

Please don’t misunderstand me, they didn’t do “bad”, but I am only suggesting something that would be more in line with every other SOP out there. And there are reasons for this.

As for Bouncers…. If you need Bouncers you don’t have a well trained Security Team. And I have provided security for everything from a Presidential visit (Yes, with the direction of the Secret Service), to a Garth Brooks Concert, Private Functions, Sporting Events, Festivals and Personal Protection Details…(Of course all while being a Police Officer). And honestly, the only time I would consider what I had to do as “bouncing” is when I had to go into Clubs and break up fights and arrest people. LOL

So yes, there should be security enough to watch one or two fields at the least, per security personnel, and enough staff that if needed can be called upon at a moments notice… as well as security personally (with Security clearly on their shirts/jackets, and some without) walking around. And it is exactly the “you can’t expect to need them to tell XYZ” that they are there for. The more popular the sport becomes, and the more people you have attending each event, the more security you NEED.

Like I said, this is pretty much common in any other sport…. I am not saying anything ground breaking, nor out of the ordinary.

As for who the camera man was, and the consequences…. That’s got to suck.

[dansim]

if someone tried o snatch my camera i would kick him square in the nuts(say it like cartman) no kitty thats my waffle!

[shartley]

Originally posted by dansim
if someone tried o snatch my camera i would kick him square in the nuts(say it like cartman) no kitty thats my waffle!
LOL And that is precisely why a good SOP would prevent that from happening. Your reaction is NORMAL and PREDICTABLE.

You identify, isolate, calm, and THEN deal with the issue. It is a whole lot easier to get the footage voluntarily when sitting calmly, than by trying to rip the camera out of its owner’s hands. The goal is to reduce the problems, not escalate them.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by dansim
if someone tried o snatch my camera i would kick him square in the nuts(say it like cartman) no kitty thats my waffle!

Would you leave the field when asked though? If you notice in the video Lane goes over, gets down, says something to the guy and turns a round like he is going off the field. I wasn't until a few words were exchanged that Lane tried to grab the camera. I think that maybe at that point he should have got help instead of grabbing the camera. But at the same time, I hope that idiot got the camera busted just for being the dope he was.

Edit: I don't think it was so much that he was trying to confiscate the footage, but that he was trying to get the guy off the field.

[BradPalooza]

What's truly unfortunate about this incident is that Lane was in the score tower talking to potential investors. He excused himself to get the guy off the field and you saw what happened. I don't know what the outcome of that was but it certainly was a black eye in more ways than one.

However, we have been asked to pull the video off our website though so it will be unavailable shortly. We will be replacing it with the press release of the VForce Profilers. Not quite as cool as an on field fight but they are really nice googles.

Shortly after that, we'll be putting up the Empire Fashion show which is debuting their new cloths line. Too bad the video just doesn't do justice to the skin tight, nearly see-through clothes their gorgeous models were wearing... : )
-Brad

[cphilip]

Simon do you know if he suffered any conseqences from his actions? They are reprehensable. And he should be in some way punished for knowingly violating the rules. And what he did at one point looks like assault. And he could and maybe should be charged. And Dye certainly should dissasociate themselves from this guy ASAP.

[manike]

Originally posted by cphilip
Simon do you know if he suffered any conseqences from his actions? They are reprehensable. And he should be in some way punished for knowingly violating the rules. And what he did at one point looks like assault. And he could and maybe should be charged. And Dye certainly should dissasociate themselves from this guy ASAP.

No idea. Sorry. I'll try to find out though.

Damn Brad, that makes things even worse. :(

p.s. Brad, I get in to Texas at 2.35 on Thursday ;) am there for a week or so before having to return to the UK. I'll give you a buzz if I get time. I'm also hoping to attend the last PACS. I'll probably be hanging out with Texas Storm.

[Muzikman]

Umm...if I walk into a concert with my minidisc recorder to bootleg the show and I get cought and security comes over to me and take it off me, it is not theft until they don't give it back. I use this as an example as I have had this happen twice now. Once I was taken back to the security room and not allowed back to the show. The other I was told I could pick the recorder up after the show. Both times they took the minidisc out of the recorder and pat me down to make sure I didn't have any more. That is the way things are when you do not follow the rules. Neither time did I start a fight with security. If you are doing wrong and you know it, the worst thing you can do is start a fight over it. That is a sure sign way to be taken away in a nice little cop car.

[cphilip]

Well no... I do not think trying to get someone off the field is assault. He had a right to extract him from the field. It would be similar to a police officer trying to escort you off and you resist. If the officer restrains you then YOU are the one charged not him.

Although they do have police powers enabled and its been pointed out that "security" should be official and not amature. Its part of the cost of doing business is to hire people who have legal recognised powers to enforce. And Lane probably does not. He probably has a responsibility to do it but most likely lacks the legal protection that an officer would have.

Unfortunately incidents like this are bound to cost all of us all money for events in the form of having to hire proper purpose dedicated Security staff. And should have been avoided with the simple act of obeying the rules. But alas that did not happen here. You can bet there will be changes as a result of this incident. And the cost will have to be passed on.

[Muzikman]

So phil, am I going to run into these problems trying to shoot the AOSC event? Are we gonna have to duke it out?:)

[cphilip]

Naw... no problems cause I gonna carry my .357 Magnum all weekend. Shoot em all and let God sort em out. I too old to get into wrestling matches. I need an equalizer! ;)

[abaez]

Aww link is down.. does anyone have it saved and can host it?

[Muzikman]

I do have it saved, but I will not host it as it's property of 720 Video.

[SPY 1]

I can´t see the video i think they took it away can someone upload somewhere so i can download it thnx.

[Trinot]

It doesnt work for me either!

[GoatBoy]

I just think it's funny how you get some punk who buys an expensive gun and a jersey, and suddenly he thinks he's a tough guy. Every time I see stuff like this, I just chuckle, because it might as well be two tennis players bumping chests out there. It will probably take a few beatings and crippling injuries before this trend is resolved.


Amongst other good points mentioned here, I think the ref should have taken at least 2 more refs/personnel with him to remove camera boy.

[pbcustom98]

cant see the movie :(

[kgbbonecrusher]

im not seeing it either.. anyone rehost or get a diff link?

[Muzikman]

720 Video was asked to take it down. See Brad's post above.